On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 11:48:09 PM UTC-4, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-05-22 2:40 p.m., Zod wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 4:54:43 AM UTC-4, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> On 2022-05-20 11:48 p.m., fake Conley Brothers wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 11:26:40 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> >>>> On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 5:04:15 AM UTC-4, HC wrote:
> >>
> >>>>> The article is about “Understanding a Misunderstood Bible Verse”, specifically “Judge not, lest ye be judged”.
> >>>> I like the one about glass houses also.
> >>>
> >>> That isn't a bible verse
> >> It was Barack Obama, pretending to know the Bible, who said it was in
> >> the Bible.
> >>
> >> "President Obama referred to the Bible during a speech on immigration
> >> Tuesday in Nashville. But there was a problem: Strictly speaking, one of
> >> the lines he cited appears nowhere in scripture.
> >> "The good book says, don't throw stones in glass houses," the president
> >> said.
> >> /Washington Post/, December 10, 2014
> >> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/12/10/is-president-obamas-glass-houses-scripture-reference-in-the-bible-not-exactly/
> >
> > ***
> Thanks for moving this to a new thread, Zod. The discussion has been
> interesting, not just for the question of who said the 'glass houses'
> proverb first, but also because of the questions that have come up about
> how to validate facts like that. Unfortunately, it's been split into 2
> parts, one buried where no one can see it, and the other in a troll
> thread where no one wants to talk about it; so it's good to see it get
> its own thread where we can continue it if necessary.
>
> It probably will be necessary, since the Sphincters have been doubling
> down on their claim that Chaucer said it first, even though they haven't
> bothered to do anything to establish it. In that light, the WaPo article
> (by Abby Ohlhiser) is a good source of info.
>
> The article actually repeats the "Chaucer said it" claim, and repeats
> the same quote Prof. NastyGenitals found on the web somewhere; but the
> Modern English translation Ohlhiser gives shows that Chaucer said no
> such thing:
>
> 'The expression "they that live in glass houses should not throw stones"
> is a proverb of unknown origin that has been used in various form for
> centuries. It's used, for example, in Chaucer's Troilus and Criseyde,
> which was likely written in the 1380s: "And for-thy, who that hath an
> heed of verre, Fro cast of stones war him in the werre!," Chaucer wrote.
> It translates (very) roughly to, "And therefore, who that has a head of
> glass, to cast of stones let him beware."'
>
> That does not say the same thing as "people who live in glass houses
> shouldn't throw stones." So who did say it first? Fortunately, Ohlhiser
> consulted a book:
>
> 'As Dwight Edwards Marvin writes in 1922's "The Antiquity of Proverbs,"
> the saying is usually attributed to James I of England, even though he
> lived after Chaucer. Marvin guesses that the saying probably has its
> roots in Spain, although the sentiment precedes the imagery.'
>
> I haven't read Marvin's book yet (it may be online, being public
> domain), but if the above is accurate, it's important. If the proverb's
> attributed to James I, that has to mean Chaucer's "glass head" quote is
> not counted as a use. As well, since George Herbert as a young man was a
> courtier to James I, that might explain how it ended up in Herbert's
> proverb collection.

Well played, G.D.

On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 3:42:10 PM UTC-4, Zod wrote:
> On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 11:48:09 PM UTC-4, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > On 2022-05-22 2:40 p.m., Zod wrote:
> > > On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 4:54:43 AM UTC-4, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > >> On 2022-05-20 11:48 p.m., fake Conley Brothers wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 11:26:40 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >>>> On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 5:04:15 AM UTC-4, HC wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>>> The article is about “Understanding a Misunderstood Bible Verse”, specifically “Judge not, lest ye be judged”.
> > >>>> I like the one about glass houses also.
> > >>>
> > >>> That isn't a bible verse
> > >> It was Barack Obama, pretending to know the Bible, who said it was in
> > >> the Bible.
> > >>
> > >> "President Obama referred to the Bible during a speech on immigration
> > >> Tuesday in Nashville. But there was a problem: Strictly speaking, one of
> > >> the lines he cited appears nowhere in scripture.
> > >> "The good book says, don't throw stones in glass houses," the president
> > >> said.
> > >> /Washington Post/, December 10, 2014
> > >> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/12/10/is-president-obamas-glass-houses-scripture-reference-in-the-bible-not-exactly/
> > >
> > > ***
> > Thanks for moving this to a new thread, Zod. The discussion has been
> > interesting, not just for the question of who said the 'glass houses'
> > proverb first, but also because of the questions that have come up about
> > how to validate facts like that. Unfortunately, it's been split into 2
> > parts, one buried where no one can see it, and the other in a troll
> > thread where no one wants to talk about it; so it's good to see it get
> > its own thread where we can continue it if necessary.
> >
> > It probably will be necessary, since the Sphincters have been doubling
> > down on their claim that Chaucer said it first, even though they haven't
> > bothered to do anything to establish it. In that light, the WaPo article
> > (by Abby Ohlhiser) is a good source of info.
> >
> > The article actually repeats the "Chaucer said it" claim, and repeats
> > the same quote Prof. NastyGenitals found on the web somewhere; but the
> > Modern English translation Ohlhiser gives shows that Chaucer said no
> > such thing:
> >
> > 'The expression "they that live in glass houses should not throw stones"
> > is a proverb of unknown origin that has been used in various form for
> > centuries. It's used, for example, in Chaucer's Troilus and Criseyde,
> > which was likely written in the 1380s: "And for-thy, who that hath an
> > heed of verre, Fro cast of stones war him in the werre!," Chaucer wrote..
> > It translates (very) roughly to, "And therefore, who that has a head of
> > glass, to cast of stones let him beware."'
> >
> > That does not say the same thing as "people who live in glass houses
> > shouldn't throw stones." So who did say it first? Fortunately, Ohlhiser
> > consulted a book:
> >
> > 'As Dwight Edwards Marvin writes in 1922's "The Antiquity of Proverbs,"
> > the saying is usually attributed to James I of England, even though he
> > lived after Chaucer. Marvin guesses that the saying probably has its
> > roots in Spain, although the sentiment precedes the imagery.'
> >
> > I haven't read Marvin's book yet (it may be online, being public
> > domain), but if the above is accurate, it's important. If the proverb's
> > attributed to James I, that has to mean Chaucer's "glass head" quote is
> > not counted as a use. As well, since George Herbert as a young man was a
> > courtier to James I, that might explain how it ended up in Herbert's
> > proverb collection.
> Well played, G.D.

Agreed.

George Dance wrote:
> On 2022-05-22 2:40 p.m., Zod wrote:
>> > On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 4:54:43 AM UTC-4, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> >> On 2022-05-20 11:48 p.m., fake Conley Brothers wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 11:26:40 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> >>>> On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 5:04:15 AM UTC-4, HC wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>>> The article is about “Understanding a Misunderstood Bible Verse”, specifically “Judge not, lest ye be judged”.
>> >>>> I like the one about glass houses also.
>> >>>
>> >>> That isn't a bible verse
>> >> It was Barack Obama, pretending to know the Bible, who said it was in
>> >> the Bible.
>> >>
>> >> "President Obama referred to the Bible during a speech on immigration
>> >> Tuesday in Nashville. But there was a problem: Strictly speaking, one of
>> >> the lines he cited appears nowhere in scripture.
>> >> "The good book says, don't throw stones in glass houses," the president
>> >> said.
>> >> /Washington Post/, December 10, 2014
>> >> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/12/10/is-president-obamas-glass-houses-scripture-reference-in-the-bible-not-exactly/
>> >
>> > ***
>> Thanks for moving this to a new thread, Zod. The discussion has been
>> interesting, not just for the question of who said the 'glass houses'
>> proverb first, but also because of the questions that have come up about
>> how to validate facts like that. Unfortunately, it's been split into 2
>> parts, one buried where no one can see it, and the other in a troll
>> thread where no one wants to talk about it; so it's good to see it get
>> its own thread where we can continue it if necessary.
>>
>> It probably will be necessary, since the Sphincters have been doubling
>> down on their claim that Chaucer said it first, even though they haven't
>> bothered to do anything to establish it. In that light, the WaPo article
>> (by Abby Ohlhiser) is a good source of info.
>>
>> The article actually repeats the "Chaucer said it" claim, and repeats
>> the same quote Prof. NastyGenitals found on the web somewhere; but the
>> Modern English translation Ohlhiser gives shows that Chaucer said no
>> such thing:
>>
>> 'The expression "they that live in glass houses should not throw stones"
>> is a proverb of unknown origin that has been used in various form for
>> centuries. It's used, for example, in Chaucer's Troilus and Criseyde,
>> which was likely written in the 1380s: "And for-thy, who that hath an
>> heed of verre, Fro cast of stones war him in the werre!," Chaucer wrote.
>> It translates (very) roughly to, "And therefore, who that has a head of
>> glass, to cast of stones let him beware."'
>>
>> That does not say the same thing as "people who live in glass houses
>> shouldn't throw stones." So who did say it first? Fortunately, Ohlhiser
>> consulted a book:
>>
>> 'As Dwight Edwards Marvin writes in 1922's "The Antiquity of Proverbs,"
>> the saying is usually attributed to James I of England, even though he
>> lived after Chaucer. Marvin guesses that the saying probably has its
>> roots in Spain, although the sentiment precedes the imagery.'
>>
>> I haven't read Marvin's book yet (it may be online, being public
>> domain), but if the above is accurate, it's important. If the proverb's
>> attributed to James I, that has to mean Chaucer's "glass head" quote is
>> not counted as a use. As well, since George Herbert as a young man was a
>> courtier to James I, that might explain how it ended up in Herbert's
>> proverb collection.

Yes indeed.....

On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 11:48:09 PM UTC-4, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> On 2022-05-22 2:40 p.m., Zod wrote:
>> > On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 4:54:43 AM UTC-4, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> >> On 2022-05-20 11:48 p.m., fake Conley Brothers wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 11:26:40 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> >>>> On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 5:04:15 AM UTC-4, HC wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>>> The article is about “Understanding a Misunderstood Bible Verse”, specifically “Judge not, lest ye be judged”.
>> >>>> I like the one about glass houses also.
>> >>>
>> >>> That isn't a bible verse
>> >> It was Barack Obama, pretending to know the Bible, who said it was in
>> >> the Bible.
>> >>
>> >> "President Obama referred to the Bible during a speech on immigration
>> >> Tuesday in Nashville. But there was a problem: Strictly speaking, one of
>> >> the lines he cited appears nowhere in scripture.
>> >> "The good book says, don't throw stones in glass houses," the president
>> >> said.
>> >> /Washington Post/, December 10, 2014
>> >> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/12/10/is-president-obamas-glass-houses-scripture-reference-in-the-bible-not-exactly/
>> >
>> > ***
>> Thanks for moving this to a new thread, Zod. The discussion has been
>> interesting, not just for the question of who said the 'glass houses'
>> proverb first, but also because of the questions that have come up about
>> how to validate facts like that. Unfortunately, it's been split into 2
>> parts, one buried where no one can see it, and the other in a troll
>> thread where no one wants to talk about it; so it's good to see it get
>> its own thread where we can continue it if necessary.
>>
>> It probably will be necessary, since the Sphincters have been doubling
>> down on their claim that Chaucer said it first, even though they haven't
>> bothered to do anything to establish it. In that light, the WaPo article
>> (by Abby Ohlhiser) is a good source of info.
>>
>> The article actually repeats the "Chaucer said it" claim, and repeats
>> the same quote Prof. NastyGenitals found on the web somewhere; but the
>> Modern English translation Ohlhiser gives shows that Chaucer said no
>> such thing:
>>
>> 'The expression "they that live in glass houses should not throw stones"
>> is a proverb of unknown origin that has been used in various form for
>> centuries. It's used, for example, in Chaucer's Troilus and Criseyde,
>> which was likely written in the 1380s: "And for-thy, who that hath an
>> heed of verre, Fro cast of stones war him in the werre!," Chaucer wrote.
>> It translates (very) roughly to, "And therefore, who that has a head of
>> glass, to cast of stones let him beware."'
>>
>> That does not say the same thing as "people who live in glass houses
>> shouldn't throw stones." So who did say it first? Fortunately, Ohlhiser
>
> consulted a book:
>>
>
> 'As Dwight Edwards Marvin writes in 1922's "The Antiquity of Proverbs,"
>
> the saying is usually attributed to James I of England, even though he
>
> lived after Chaucer. Marvin guesses that the saying probably has its
>
> roots in Spain, although the sentiment precedes the imagery.'
>
> I haven't read Marvin's book yet (it may be online, being public
>
> domain), but if the above is accurate, it's important. If the proverb's
>
> attributed to James I, that has to mean Chaucer's "glass head" quote is
>> not counted as a use. As well, since George Herbert as a young man was a
>
> courtier to James I, that might explain how it ended up in Herbert's
>
> proverb collection.

Interesting and educational.

🙂

Will Dockery wrote:

> On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 11:48:09 PM UTC-4, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>>> On 2022-05-22 2:40 p.m., Zod wrote:
>>> > On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 4:54:43 AM UTC-4, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>
>>> >> It was Barack Obama, pretending to know the Bible, who said it was in
>>> >> the Bible.
>>> >>
>>> >> "President Obama referred to the Bible during a speech on immigration
>>> >> Tuesday in Nashville. But there was a problem: Strictly speaking, one of
>>> >> the lines he cited appears nowhere in scripture.
>>> >> "The good book says, don't throw stones in glass houses," the president
>>> >> said.
>>> >> /Washington Post/, December 10, 2014
>>> >> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/12/10/is-president-obamas-glass-houses-scripture-reference-in-the-bible-not-exactly/
>>> >
>>> > ***
>>> Thanks for moving this to a new thread, Zod. The discussion has been
>>> interesting, not just for the question of who said the 'glass houses'
>>> proverb first, but also because of the questions that have come up about
>>> how to validate facts like that. Unfortunately, it's been split into 2
>>> parts, one buried where no one can see it, and the other in a troll
>>> thread where no one wants to talk about it; so it's good to see it get
>>> its own thread where we can continue it if necessary.
>>>
>>> It probably will be necessary, since the Sphincters have been doubling
>>> down on their claim that Chaucer said it first, even though they haven't
>>> bothered to do anything to establish it. In that light, the WaPo article
>>> (by Abby Ohlhiser) is a good source of info.
>>>
>>> The article actually repeats the "Chaucer said it" claim, and repeats
>>> the same quote Prof. NastyGenitals found on the web somewhere; but the
>>> Modern English translation Ohlhiser gives shows that Chaucer said no
>>> such thing:
>>>
>>> 'The expression "they that live in glass houses should not throw stones"
>>> is a proverb of unknown origin that has been used in various form for
>>> centuries. It's used, for example, in Chaucer's Troilus and Criseyde,
>>> which was likely written in the 1380s: "And for-thy, who that hath an
>>> heed of verre, Fro cast of stones war him in the werre!," Chaucer wrote.
>>> It translates (very) roughly to, "And therefore, who that has a head of
>>> glass, to cast of stones let him beware."'
>>>
>>> That does not say the same thing as "people who live in glass houses
>>> shouldn't throw stones." So who did say it first? Fortunately, Ohlhiser
>>
>> consulted a book:
>>>
>>
>> 'As Dwight Edwards Marvin writes in 1922's "The Antiquity of Proverbs,"
>>
>> the saying is usually attributed to James I of England, even though he
>>
>> lived after Chaucer. Marvin guesses that the saying probably has its
>>
>> roots in Spain, although the sentiment precedes the imagery.'
>>
>> I haven't read Marvin's book yet (it may be online, being public
>>
>> domain), but if the above is accurate, it's important. If the proverb's
>>
>> attributed to James I, that has to mean Chaucer's "glass head" quote is
>>> not counted as a use. As well, since George Herbert as a young man was a
>>
>> courtier to James I, that might explain how it ended up in Herbert's
>>
>> proverb collection.

> Interesting and educational.

Absolutely agreed......!