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arts / alt.arts.poetry.comments / Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetry

SubjectAuthor
* Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetryCoco DeSockmonkey
`* Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetryW-Dockery
 +* Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetryMichael Pendragon
 |+* Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetryWill Dockery
 ||`* Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetryMichael Pendragon
 || `* Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetryWill Dockery
 ||  `* Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetryZod
 ||   `- Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetryW-Dockery
 |`- Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetryW.Dockery
 `* Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetryZod
  `- Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetryW-Dockery

1
Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetry

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Subject: Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetry
From: cocodeso...@gmail.com (Coco DeSockmonkey)
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 by: Coco DeSockmonkey - Wed, 1 Jun 2022 15:15 UTC

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 10:36:32 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> Again, the pedophilia you see in the poem is all in your imagination, Pendragon.

Are you denying that the implied meaning/symbolism/imagery of 3) was intentional on Ginsberg's part, Donkey?

There are exactly four ways to interpret that poem, Donkey:

1) A submissive pleading for sex from a dominator,
2) A slave pleading for BDSM sex from its master,
3) An apprentice/acolyte (adolescent boy) pleading for BDSM sex from its master, and
4) A masochistic worshipper praying for BDSM sex from God.

I don't believe that any one of these interpretations are right or wrong. If you select any one as the main narrative, the others remain as additional layers of symbolism/meaning.

And since we know that Ginsberg was a member of NAMBLA, we can assume that the apprentice/acolyte version at the forefront of his mind during the writing of this piece.

Michael Pendragon
"Allen Ginsberg had sexual activity with a young man who was NOT 15, but 17/18, and he made a hyperbolic error in using the word '15'."
-- The late, unlamented Stephen "Pickles" Pickering

Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetry

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Subject: Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetry
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 by: W-Dockery - Wed, 1 Jun 2022 21:38 UTC

Coco DeSockmonkey wrote:

> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 10:36:32 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>
>> Again, the pedophilia you see in the poem is all in your imagination, Pendragon.

>
> There are exactly four ways to interpret that poem

> 1) A submissive pleading for sex from a dominator,
> 2) A slave pleading for BDSM sex from its master,
> 3) An apprentice/acolyte pleading for BDSM sex from its master, and
> 4) A masochistic worshipper praying for BDSM sex from God.

Again, none of which have any connection wit pedophilia, that parts all in your imagination, Pendragon.

HTH and HAND.

Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetry

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Subject: Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetry
From: michaelm...@gmail.com (Michael Pendragon)
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 by: Michael Pendragon - Wed, 1 Jun 2022 23:47 UTC

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 5:40:14 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> Coco DeSockmonkey wrote:
>
> > On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 10:36:32 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> >
> >> Again, the pedophilia you see in the poem is all in your imagination, Pendragon.
>
> >
> > There are exactly four ways to interpret that poem
> > 1) A submissive pleading for sex from a dominator,
> > 2) A slave pleading for BDSM sex from its master,
> > 3) An apprentice/acolyte pleading for BDSM sex from its master, and
> > 4) A masochistic worshipper praying for BDSM sex from God.
> Again, none of which have any connection wit pedophilia, that parts all in your imagination, Pendragon.

3) does, Donkey.

I realize that you start 'em off young down South, but an adult having sex with a 13-year old would be considered pedophilia in the civilized world.

Michael Pendragon
"Okay, correct me if I'm wrong. What is the definition of real life stalking, if it isn't actually stalking?"
-- Will Dockery, on the redundancy of dictionaries.

Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetry

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Subject: Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetry
From: opb...@yahoo.com (Will Dockery)
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 by: Will Dockery - Wed, 1 Jun 2022 23:50 UTC

The only connection in the Allen Ginsberg poem with pedophilia is in your imagination, Pendragon.

Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetry

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Subject: Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetry
From: michaelm...@gmail.com (Michael Pendragon)
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 by: Michael Pendragon - Thu, 2 Jun 2022 01:13 UTC

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 7:50:38 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> The only connection in the Allen Ginsberg poem with pedophilia is in your imagination, Pendragon.

Last jackass standing?

I'm outta here, Donkey.

Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetry

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Subject: Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetry
From: opb...@yahoo.com (Will Dockery)
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 by: Will Dockery - Thu, 2 Jun 2022 01:19 UTC

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 9:13:20 PM UTC-4, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 7:50:38 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>
> > The only connection in the Allen Ginsberg poem with pedophilia is in your imagination, Pendragon.
> Last jackass standing?
>
> I'm outta here, Donkey.

You might as well, since you don't have an argument, only a figment of your imagination, you shit slinging little monkey.

🙂

Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetry

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 by: Zod - Sat, 4 Jun 2022 19:03 UTC

Will Dockery wrote:

> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 9:13:20 PM UTC-4, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 7:50:38 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>>
>> > The only connection in the Allen Ginsberg poem with pedophilia is in your imagination, Pendragon.
>> Last jackass standing?
>>
>> I'm outta here, Donkey.

> You might as well, since you don't have an argument, only a figment of your imagination, you shit slinging little monkey.

Exactly, he seems to know little to nothing of the poetry of Allen Ginsberg.....!

Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetry

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Subject: Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetry
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 by: Zod - Sun, 5 Jun 2022 20:24 UTC

Will Dockery wrote:

> Coco DeSockmonkey wrote:

>> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 10:36:32 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>>
>>> Again, the pedophilia you see in the poem is all in your imagination, Pendragon.

>>
>> There are exactly four ways to interpret that poem

>> 1) A submissive pleading for sex from a dominator,
>> 2) A slave pleading for BDSM sex from its master,
>> 3) An apprentice/acolyte pleading for BDSM sex from its master, and
>> 4) A masochistic worshipper praying for BDSM sex from God.

> Again, none of which have any connection wit pedophilia, that parts all in your imagination, Pendragon.

> HTH and HAND.

Exactly, as anyone who reads the poem can easily see.....

Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetry

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Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2022 02:15:40 +0000
Subject: Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetry
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 by: W-Dockery - Wed, 8 Jun 2022 02:15 UTC

Zod wrote:

> Will Dockery wrote:

>> Coco DeSockmonkey wrote:

>>> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 10:36:32 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>>>
>>>> Again, the pedophilia you see in the poem is all in your imagination, Pendragon.

>>>
>>> There are exactly four ways to interpret that poem

>>> 1) A submissive pleading for sex from a dominator,
>>> 2) A slave pleading for BDSM sex from its master,
>>> 3) An apprentice/acolyte pleading for BDSM sex from its master, and
>>> 4) A masochistic worshipper praying for BDSM sex from God.

>> Again, none of which have any connection wit pedophilia, that parts all in your imagination, Pendragon.

>> HTH and HAND.

> Exactly, as anyone who reads the poem can easily see.....

A reader can of course interpret a poem in any way he pleases.

Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetry

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Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2022 02:43:35 +0000
Subject: Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetry
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 by: W-Dockery - Tue, 21 Jun 2022 02:43 UTC

Zod wrote:

> Will Dockery wrote:

>> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 9:13:20 PM UTC-4, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 7:50:38 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>>>
>>> > The only connection in the Allen Ginsberg poem with pedophilia is in your imagination, Pendragon.
>>> Last jackass standing?
>>>
>>> I'm outta here, Donkey.

>> You might as well, since you don't have an argument, only a figment of your imagination, you shit slinging little monkey.

> Exactly, he seems to know little to nothing of the poetry of Allen Ginsberg.....!

That's been established more than once.

Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetry

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Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2022 17:16:04 +0000
Subject: Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetry
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 by: W.Dockery - Fri, 24 Jun 2022 17:16 UTC

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 5:40:14 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> Coco DeSockmonkey wrote:
>>
>> > On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 10:36:32 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> >
>> >> Again, the pedophilia you see in the poem is all in your imagination, Pendragon.
>>
>> >
>> > There are exactly four ways to interpret that poem
>> > 1) A submissive pleading for sex from a dominator,
>> > 2) A slave pleading for BDSM sex from its master,
>> > 3) An apprentice/acolyte pleading for BDSM sex from its master, and
>> > 4) A masochistic worshipper praying for BDSM sex from God.
>> Again, none of which have any connection wit pedophilia, that parts all in your imagination, Pendragon.

> 3) does

Except that it has been explained that "Please Master" was written for Neal Cassady, who was the same age as Allen Ginsberg at the time.

HTH and HAND.

arts / alt.arts.poetry.comments / Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetry

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