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arts / alt.arts.poetry.comments / Construe

SubjectAuthor
* ConstrueMack A. Damia
+- Re: ConstrueGeorge J. Dance
+* Re: ConstrueW.Dockery
|`- Re: ConstrueFamily Guy
+* Re: ConstrueSpam-I-Am
|`* Re: ConstrueNancyGene
| +* Re: ConstrueZod
| |`* Re: ConstrueNancyGene
| | +- Re: ConstrueSpam-I-Am
| | `* Re: ConstrueW.Dockery
| |  `* Re: ConstrueMack A. Damia
| |   +* Re: ConstrueGeorge J. Dance
| |   |`* Re: ConstrueMack A. Damia
| |   | `* Re: ConstrueGeorge J. Dance
| |   |  `* Re: ConstrueGeneral-Zod
| |   |   +* Re: ConstrueMichael Pendragon
| |   |   |`* Re: ConstrueGeorge J. Dance
| |   |   | +- Re: ConstrueWill Dockery
| |   |   | +- Re: ConstrueMichael Pendragon
| |   |   | `* Re: ConstrueZod
| |   |   |  `- Re: ConstrueW-Dockery
| |   |   `* Re: ConstrueGeorge J. Dance
| |   |    `- Re: ConstrueMichael Pendragon
| |   `- Re: ConstrueW-Dockery
| `* Re: ConstrueSpam-I-Am
|  `* Re: ConstrueNancyGene
|   `* Re: ConstrueSpam-I-Am
|    `* Re: ConstrueNancyGene
|     `* Re: ConstrueSpam-I-Am
|      `* Re: ConstrueNancyGene
|       +- Re: ConstrueSpam-I-Am
|       `* Re: ConstrueNancyGene
|        `* Re: ConstrueSpam-I-Am
|         `* Re: ConstrueNancyGene
|          +* Re: ConstrueSpam-I-Am
|          |`- Re: ConstrueNancyGene
|          `* Re: ConstrueMichael Pendragon
|           +* Re: ConstrueW.Dockery
|           |`- Re: ConstrueMichael Pendragon
|           `- Re: ConstrueMack A. Damia
+* Re: ConstrueVictor Hugo Fan
|`- Re: ConstrueMack A. Damia
+* Re: ConstrueMack A. Damia
|+* Re: ConstrueVictor Hugo Fan
||`* Re: ConstrueMack A. Damia
|| +* Re: ConstrueGeorge J. Dance
|| |`* Re: ConstrueW-Dockery
|| | `- Re: ConstrueVictor H.
|| `- Re: ConstrueW.Dockery
|`* Re: ConstrueMichael Pendragon
| +* Re: ConstrueSpam-I-Am
| |`- Re: ConstrueMichael Pendragon
| +- Re: ConstrueMack A. Damia
| `* Re: ConstrueNancyGene
|  +* Re: ConstrueMack A. Damia
|  |`* Re: ConstrueMichael Pendragon
|  | `* Re: ConstrueMack A. Damia
|  |  +* Re: ConstrueMichael Pendragon
|  |  |`- Re: ConstrueSpam-I-Am
|  |  `* Re: ConstrueNancyGene
|  |   +* Re: ConstrueAsh Wurthing
|  |   |`- Re: ConstrueAsh Wurthing
|  |   `* Re: ConstrueMack A. Damia
|  |    +* Re: ConstrueNancyGene
|  |    |+- Re: ConstrueSpam-I-Am
|  |    |+* Re: ConstrueMack A. Damia
|  |    ||+* Re: ConstrueMichael Pendragon
|  |    |||`- Re: ConstrueSpam-I-Am
|  |    ||`* Re: ConstrueVictor Hugo Fan
|  |    || `* Re: ConstrueMack A. Damia
|  |    ||  `* Re: ConstrueGeorge J. Dance
|  |    ||   +* Re: ConstrueSpam-I-Am
|  |    ||   |`* Re: ConstrueGeorge J. Dance
|  |    ||   | +* Re: ConstrueGeorge J. Dance
|  |    ||   | |`- Re: ConstrueSpam-I-Am
|  |    ||   | `* Re: ConstrueSpam-I-Am
|  |    ||   |  `* Re: ConstrueGeorge J. Dance
|  |    ||   |   +- Re: ConstrueSpam-I-Am
|  |    ||   |   +* Re: ConstrueMichael Pendragon
|  |    ||   |   |`- Re: ConstrueSpam-I-Am
|  |    ||   |   `* Re: ConstrueMack A. Damia
|  |    ||   |    `* Re: ConstrueW-Dockery
|  |    ||   |     `* Re: ConstrueAsh Wurthing
|  |    ||   |      +* Re: ConstrueSpam-I-Am
|  |    ||   |      |`* Re: ConstrueAsh Wurthing
|  |    ||   |      | `- Re: ConstrueSpam-I-Am
|  |    ||   |      `* Re: ConstrueMack A. Damia
|  |    ||   |       +- Re: ConstrueW.Dockery
|  |    ||   |       +* Re: ConstrueME
|  |    ||   |       |`- Re: ConstrueW-Dockery
|  |    ||   |       +- Re: ConstrueAsh Wurthing
|  |    ||   |       +- Re: ConstrueZod
|  |    ||   |       `* Re: ConstrueSpam-I-Am
|  |    ||   |        +* Re: ConstrueAsh Wurthing
|  |    ||   |        |`* Re: ConstrueSpam-I-Am
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|  |    ||   |        |  `* Re: ConstrueSpam-I-Am
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|  |    ||   |        |    `* Re: ConstrueSpam-I-Am
|  |    ||   |        |     `* Re: ConstrueNancyGene
|  |    ||   |        |      +- Re: ConstrueSpam-I-Am
|  |    ||   |        |      `- Re: ConstrueSpam-I-Am
|  |    ||   |        +* Re: ConstrueW.Dockery
|  |    ||   |        `* Re: ConstrueGeneral-Zod
|  |    ||   `* Re: ConstrueMack A. Damia
|  |    |`- Re: ConstrueGeneral-Zod
|  |    `* Re: ConstrueMichael Pendragon
|  `- Re: ConstrueMichael Pendragon
+* Re: ConstrueWill Dockery
+* Re: ConstrueWill Dockery
+* Re: ConstrueWill Dockery
+* Re: ConstrueZod
+* Re: ConstrueRachel
`* Re: ConstrueWill Dockery

Pages:123456
Construe

<sm6fjh1e6l2dcvnps3o3sdfncoh2sssuce@4ax.com>

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From: drsteerf...@yahoo.com (Mack A. Damia)
Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments
Subject: Construe
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 18:48:55 -0700
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 by: Mack A. Damia - Sat, 1 Oct 2022 01:48 UTC

Voyage by Archibald MacLeish

for Ernest Hemingway

HEAP we these coppered hulls
With headed poppies
And garlic longed-for by the eager dead
Keep we with sun-caught sails
The westward ocean
Raise we that island on the sea at last
Steep to the gull-less shore
Across the sea rush
Trade we our cargoes with the dead for sleep.

What does "HEAP we" mean? What is this poem about? Note that the
poem is "for Ernest Hemingway".

I have some ideas, but please tell me what you think before I share
them with you.

Re: Construe

<th8p0g$19jns$1@dont-email.me>

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From: georgeda...@yahoo.ca (George J. Dance)
Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments
Subject: Re: Construe
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2022 03:08:00 -0400
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 by: George J. Dance - Sat, 1 Oct 2022 07:08 UTC

On 2022-09-30 9:48 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
>
> Voyage by Archibald MacLeish
>
> for Ernest Hemingway
>
> HEAP we these coppered hulls
> With headed poppies
> And garlic longed-for by the eager dead
> Keep we with sun-caught sails
> The westward ocean
> Raise we that island on the sea at last
> Steep to the gull-less shore
> Across the sea rush
> Trade we our cargoes with the dead for sleep.
>
>
> What does "HEAP we" mean?
"We heap". "HEAP" is probably capitalized only because it was
conventional to capitalize the first word of a poem in books in those
days. He uses the same inversion in L4 "Keep we", L6 "Raise we" and L9
"Trade we" -- probably just for the sake of beginning the lines with a
choriamb to give it a vaguely classical sound.

> What is this poem about?
On the surface, it's about some fictitious sea traders, somewhat like
but not the Phoenicians, sailing across the Atlantic to the isle of the
dead, bringing poppies and and garlic which they trade with the dead in
exchange for sleep.

If you're writing an explication of the poem, you'll be expected to look
for a deeper meaning than that. Have fun.

> Note that the
> poem is "for Ernest Hemingway".
>
MacLeish lived in Paris 1923-1928. He met Hemingway in the summer of
1924, and the two couples became close friends. If you're going to
mention that, you'll need a cite. If you don't have one, you can use
https://www.theparisreview.org/letters-essays/3155/the-selected-letters-of-archibald-macleish-archibald-macleish

> I have some ideas, but please tell me what you think before I share
> them with you.

A wise decision. You may get more replies.

Re: Construe

<2ecf3e9d04c0f6e180c206ec026d6e32@news.novabbs.com>

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From: will.doc...@gmail.com (W.Dockery)
Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments
Subject: Re: Construe
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2022 03:05:11 +0000
Organization: novaBBS
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 by: W.Dockery - Sat, 1 Oct 2022 03:05 UTC

Mack A. Damia wrote:

>
> Voyage by Archibald MacLeish

> for Ernest Hemingway

> HEAP we these coppered hulls
> With headed poppies
> And garlic longed-for by the eager dead
> Keep we with sun-caught sails
> The westward ocean
> Raise we that island on the sea at last
> Steep to the gull-less shore
> Across the sea rush
> Trade we our cargoes with the dead for sleep.

> What does "HEAP we" mean? What is this poem about? Note that the
> poem is "for Ernest Hemingway".

> I have some ideas, but please tell me what you think before I share
> them with you.

Hello Mack, the poem needs more study, but I will take it literally, heap = pile.

I look forward to reading your interpretation.

Re: Construe

<604714b8-1bd3-40bb-bebd-b335de913190n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Construe
From: hieronym...@gmail.com (Spam-I-Am)
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 by: Spam-I-Am - Sat, 1 Oct 2022 09:55 UTC

On Friday, September 30, 2022 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> Voyage by Archibald MacLeish
>
> for Ernest Hemingway
>
> HEAP we these coppered hulls
> With headed poppies
> And garlic longed-for by the eager dead
> Keep we with sun-caught sails
> The westward ocean
> Raise we that island on the sea at last
> Steep to the gull-less shore
> Across the sea rush
> Trade we our cargoes with the dead for sleep.
>
>
> What does "HEAP we" mean? What is this poem about? Note that the
> poem is "for Ernest Hemingway".
>
> I have some ideas, but please tell me what you think before I share
> them with you.

I think you’re a nut.

“ In addition to some intriguingly opaque sentiments, the inscription includes an early draft of a later published poem (appearing as “Voyage” in Collected Poems 1917 to 1982). In this public presentation, I explore how the presence of this book in the Hemingway collection in Idaho speaks not only to the relationship between these two literary giants, but also each man individually. “
https://www.emsarconi.com/projects-and-publications/project-one-tyz3d

Re: Construe

<47f86c08-8d51-46c4-b4a6-9b568da3a4f7n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Construe
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 by: NancyGene - Sat, 1 Oct 2022 15:45 UTC

On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 9:55:32 AM UTC, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> On Friday, September 30, 2022 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > Voyage by Archibald MacLeish
> >
> > for Ernest Hemingway
> >
> > HEAP we these coppered hulls
> > With headed poppies
> > And garlic longed-for by the eager dead
> > Keep we with sun-caught sails
> > The westward ocean
> > Raise we that island on the sea at last
> > Steep to the gull-less shore
> > Across the sea rush
> > Trade we our cargoes with the dead for sleep.
> >
> >
> > What does "HEAP we" mean? What is this poem about? Note that the
> > poem is "for Ernest Hemingway".
> >
> > I have some ideas, but please tell me what you think before I share
> > them with you.
> I think you’re a nut.
>
> “ In addition to some intriguingly opaque sentiments, the inscription includes an early draft of a later published poem (appearing as “Voyage” in Collected Poems 1917 to 1982). In this public presentation, I explore how the presence of this book in the Hemingway collection in Idaho speaks not only to the relationship between these two literary giants, but also each man individually. “
> https://www.emsarconi.com/projects-and-publications/project-one-tyz3d

We see that a certain reader was unable to discern what the question was. He has a heap of learning to do.

However, for the meaning of the poem, it is useful to know that it was written in 1933.

Re: Construe

<a506067e5871e9397ea511c416ce3d52@news.novabbs.com>

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Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2022 16:38:44 +0000
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 by: Zod - Sat, 1 Oct 2022 16:38 UTC

NancyGene wrote:

> On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 9:55:32 AM UTC, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>> On Friday, September 30, 2022 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>
>> > Voyage by Archibald MacLeish
>> >
>> > for Ernest Hemingway
>> >
>> > HEAP we these coppered hulls
>> > With headed poppies
>> > And garlic longed-for by the eager dead
>> > Keep we with sun-caught sails
>> > The westward ocean
>> > Raise we that island on the sea at last
>> > Steep to the gull-less shore
>> > Across the sea rush
>> > Trade we our cargoes with the dead for sleep.
>> >
>> >
>> > What does "HEAP we" mean? What is this poem about? Note that the
>> > poem is "for Ernest Hemingway".
>> >
>> > I have some ideas, but please tell me what you think before I share
>> > them with you.
>> I think you’re a nut.
>>
>> “ In addition to some intriguingly opaque sentiments, the inscription includes an early draft of a later published poem (appearing as “Voyage” in Collected Poems 1917 to 1982). In this public presentation, I explore how the presence of this book in the Hemingway collection in Idaho speaks not only to the relationship between these two literary giants, but also each man individually. “
>> https://www.emsarconi.com/projects-and-publications/project-one-tyz3d

> We see that a certain reader was unable to discern

At least he probably knows that London isn't in Ireland...ha ha.

Re: Construe

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Subject: Re: Construe
From: vhugo...@gmail.com (Victor Hugo Fan)
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 by: Victor Hugo Fan - Sat, 1 Oct 2022 17:23 UTC

On Friday, September 30, 2022 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>
> Voyage by Archibald MacLeish
>
> for Ernest Hemingway
>
> HEAP we these coppered hulls
> With headed poppies
> And garlic longed-for by the eager dead
> Keep we with sun-caught sails
> The westward ocean
> Raise we that island on the sea at last
> Steep to the gull-less shore
> Across the sea rush
> Trade we our cargoes with the dead for sleep.
>
>
> What does "HEAP we" mean? What is this poem about? Note that the
> poem is "for Ernest Hemingway".
>
> I have some ideas, but please tell me what you think before I share
> them with you.

Welcome to the poetry group....!

Re: Construe

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From: drsteerf...@yahoo.com (Mack A. Damia)
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Subject: Re: Construe
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2022 10:28:50 -0700
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 by: Mack A. Damia - Sat, 1 Oct 2022 17:28 UTC

On Fri, 30 Sep 2022 18:48:55 -0700, Mack A. Damia
<drsteerforth@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>Voyage by Archibald MacLeish
>
>for Ernest Hemingway
>
>HEAP we these coppered hulls
>With headed poppies
>And garlic longed-for by the eager dead
>Keep we with sun-caught sails
>The westward ocean
>Raise we that island on the sea at last
>Steep to the gull-less shore
>Across the sea rush
>Trade we our cargoes with the dead for sleep.
>
>
>What does "HEAP we" mean? What is this poem about? Note that the
>poem is "for Ernest Hemingway".
>
>I have some ideas, but please tell me what you think before I share
>them with you.

My take, and I am not saying that this correct:

MacLeish is reminiscing with Hemingway (both ambulance drivers in
World War I, and both saw action) about their experiences in war by
using imagery in a kind of elegy: Copper hulls of ships, rows of
poppies, garlic, etc.

"HEAP we with..." = "We are overwhelmed with...."

Found a link between "HEAP" and "overwhelm".

IDIOM ABOUT HEAP:

all of a heap, Informal.

overwhelmed with astonishment; amazed:
We were struck all of a heap upon hearing of their divorce.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/heap

The fact that the word is capitalized is overwhelming in itself.

Not certain what the year it was written -1933 - has to do with it.
Could it be that he is referring to taking bodies of the fallen
soldiers of World War I back to England from France? "Westward
ocean", "island".

Appreciate your comments. More?

Re: Construe

<30785502-c322-4c50-b7f5-1d0f7603af8cn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Construe
From: vhugo...@gmail.com (Victor Hugo Fan)
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 by: Victor Hugo Fan - Sat, 1 Oct 2022 17:35 UTC

On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 1:28:55 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Sep 2022 18:48:55 -0700, Mack A. Damia
> <drstee...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Voyage by Archibald MacLeish
> >
> >for Ernest Hemingway
> >
> >HEAP we these coppered hulls
> >With headed poppies
> >And garlic longed-for by the eager dead
> >Keep we with sun-caught sails
> >The westward ocean
> >Raise we that island on the sea at last
> >Steep to the gull-less shore
> >Across the sea rush
> >Trade we our cargoes with the dead for sleep.
> >
> >
> >What does "HEAP we" mean? What is this poem about? Note that the
> >poem is "for Ernest Hemingway".
> >
> >I have some ideas, but please tell me what you think before I share
> >them with you.
> My take, and I am not saying that this correct:
>
> MacLeish is reminiscing with Hemingway (both ambulance drivers in
> World War I, and both saw action) about their experiences in war by
> using imagery in a kind of elegy: Copper hulls of ships, rows of
> poppies, garlic, etc.
>
> "HEAP we with..." = "We are overwhelmed with...."
>
> Found a link between "HEAP" and "overwhelm".
>
> IDIOM ABOUT HEAP:
>
> all of a heap, Informal.
>
> overwhelmed with astonishment; amazed:
> We were struck all of a heap upon hearing of their divorce.
>
> https://www.dictionary.com/browse/heap
>
> The fact that the word is capitalized is overwhelming in itself.
>
> Not certain what the year it was written -1933 - has to do with it.
> Could it be that he is referring to taking bodies of the fallen
> soldiers of World War I back to England from France? "Westward
> ocean", "island".
>
> Appreciate your comments. More?

Hi Mack....

I thought the ****copper hulls*** might be empty shells and bullets after firing....

Re: Construe

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Subject: Re: Construe
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 by: Mack A. Damia - Sat, 1 Oct 2022 18:42 UTC

On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 10:35:09 -0700 (PDT), Victor Hugo Fan
<vhugofan@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 1:28:55 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Sep 2022 18:48:55 -0700, Mack A. Damia
>> <drstee...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Voyage by Archibald MacLeish
>> >
>> >for Ernest Hemingway
>> >
>> >HEAP we these coppered hulls
>> >With headed poppies
>> >And garlic longed-for by the eager dead
>> >Keep we with sun-caught sails
>> >The westward ocean
>> >Raise we that island on the sea at last
>> >Steep to the gull-less shore
>> >Across the sea rush
>> >Trade we our cargoes with the dead for sleep.
>> >
>> >
>> >What does "HEAP we" mean? What is this poem about? Note that the
>> >poem is "for Ernest Hemingway".
>> >
>> >I have some ideas, but please tell me what you think before I share
>> >them with you.
>> My take, and I am not saying that this correct:
>>
>> MacLeish is reminiscing with Hemingway (both ambulance drivers in
>> World War I, and both saw action) about their experiences in war by
>> using imagery in a kind of elegy: Copper hulls of ships, rows of
>> poppies, garlic, etc.
>>
>> "HEAP we with..." = "We are overwhelmed with...."
>>
>> Found a link between "HEAP" and "overwhelm".
>>
>> IDIOM ABOUT HEAP:
>>
>> all of a heap, Informal.
>>
>> overwhelmed with astonishment; amazed:
>> We were struck all of a heap upon hearing of their divorce.
>>
>> https://www.dictionary.com/browse/heap
>>
>> The fact that the word is capitalized is overwhelming in itself.
>>
>> Not certain what the year it was written -1933 - has to do with it.
>> Could it be that he is referring to taking bodies of the fallen
>> soldiers of World War I back to England from France? "Westward
>> ocean", "island".
>>
>> Appreciate your comments. More?
>
>Hi Mack....

Good morning!

>I thought the ****copper hulls*** might be empty shells and bullets after firing....

Could be, but hulls of ships are coated with copper sheathing to
protect them from the sea water.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_sheathing

I think poppies have been traditionally associated with the dead
soldiers of World War I. "In Flanders Field" by John McCrae.

Garlic was used as an antiseptic and also used to hide the odor of
decay.

Gull-less shore - isolation, the crisis of war.

When the boat reaches England (?) the dead bodies will be unloaded and
the soldiers/sailors can sleep. (May be a stretch?)

Re: Construe

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Subject: Re: Construe
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 by: Mack A. Damia - Sat, 1 Oct 2022 18:43 UTC

On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 10:23:05 -0700 (PDT), Victor Hugo Fan
<vhugofan@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, September 30, 2022 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>
>> Voyage by Archibald MacLeish
>>
>> for Ernest Hemingway
>>
>> HEAP we these coppered hulls
>> With headed poppies
>> And garlic longed-for by the eager dead
>> Keep we with sun-caught sails
>> The westward ocean
>> Raise we that island on the sea at last
>> Steep to the gull-less shore
>> Across the sea rush
>> Trade we our cargoes with the dead for sleep.
>>
>>
>> What does "HEAP we" mean? What is this poem about? Note that the
>> poem is "for Ernest Hemingway".
>>
>> I have some ideas, but please tell me what you think before I share
>> them with you.
>
>Welcome to the poetry group....!

Thank you!

Re: Construe

<740bb1a6-f6a2-4044-b755-d915ba5a467fn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Construe
From: madeforz...@yahoo.com (Family Guy)
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 by: Family Guy - Sat, 1 Oct 2022 18:46 UTC

On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 3:45:34 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> Mack A. Damia wrote:
>
> >
> > Voyage by Archibald MacLeish
>
> > for Ernest Hemingway
>
> > HEAP we these coppered hulls
> > With headed poppies
> > And garlic longed-for by the eager dead
> > Keep we with sun-caught sails
> > The westward ocean
> > Raise we that island on the sea at last
> > Steep to the gull-less shore
> > Across the sea rush
> > Trade we our cargoes with the dead for sleep.
>
>
> > What does "HEAP we" mean? What is this poem about? Note that the
> > poem is "for Ernest Hemingway".
>
> > I have some ideas, but please tell me what you think before I share
> > them with you.
> Hello Mack, the poem needs more study, but I will take it literally, heap = pile.
>
> I look forward to reading your interpretation.

"More study?"
You're an idiot. You couldn't study mosquito larvae in a barrel of water.

Re: Construe

<3ad1d5da-e8b6-4059-bd49-9ded032d30c6n@googlegroups.com>

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 by: NancyGene - Sat, 1 Oct 2022 19:36 UTC

On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 7:18:51 PM UTC, Zod wrote:
> NancyGene wrote:
>
> > On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 9:55:32 AM UTC, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >> On Friday, September 30, 2022 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> >
> >> > Voyage by Archibald MacLeish
> >> >
> >> > for Ernest Hemingway
> >> >
> >> > HEAP we these coppered hulls
> >> > With headed poppies
> >> > And garlic longed-for by the eager dead
> >> > Keep we with sun-caught sails
> >> > The westward ocean
> >> > Raise we that island on the sea at last
> >> > Steep to the gull-less shore
> >> > Across the sea rush
> >> > Trade we our cargoes with the dead for sleep.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > What does "HEAP we" mean? What is this poem about? Note that the
> >> > poem is "for Ernest Hemingway".
> >> >
> >> > I have some ideas, but please tell me what you think before I share
> >> > them with you.
> >> I think you’re a nut.
> >>
> >> “ In addition to some intriguingly opaque sentiments, the inscription includes an early draft of a later published poem (appearing as “Voyage” in Collected Poems 1917 to 1982). In this public presentation, I explore how the presence of this book in the Hemingway collection in Idaho speaks not only to the relationship between these two literary giants, but also each man individually. “
> >> https://www.emsarconi.com/projects-and-publications/project-one-tyz3d
>
> > We see that a certain reader was unable to discern what the question was. He has a heap of learning to do.
> At least he probably knows that London isn't in Ireland...ha ha.

We know that you couldn't understand the question either. What Mr. Damia asked was "What does "HEAP we" mean?" He didn't asked for the definition of "heap." Mr. Dockery cannot read for understanding and gave a stupid answer. "Stupid is as stupid does."

We think that you have the symptoms of frontotemporal dementia. Find a doctor.

Re: Construe

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Subject: Re: Construe
From: hieronym...@gmail.com (Spam-I-Am)
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 by: Spam-I-Am - Sun, 2 Oct 2022 10:46 UTC

On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 3:36:32 PM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
> On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 7:18:51 PM UTC, Zod wrote:
> > NancyGene wrote:
> >
> > > On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 9:55:32 AM UTC, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > >> On Friday, September 30, 2022 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > >
> > >> > Voyage by Archibald MacLeish
> > >> >
> > >> > for Ernest Hemingway
> > >> >
> > >> > HEAP we these coppered hulls
> > >> > With headed poppies
> > >> > And garlic longed-for by the eager dead
> > >> > Keep we with sun-caught sails
> > >> > The westward ocean
> > >> > Raise we that island on the sea at last
> > >> > Steep to the gull-less shore
> > >> > Across the sea rush
> > >> > Trade we our cargoes with the dead for sleep.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > What does "HEAP we" mean? What is this poem about? Note that the
> > >> > poem is "for Ernest Hemingway".
> > >> >
> > >> > I have some ideas, but please tell me what you think before I share
> > >> > them with you.
> > >> I think you’re a nut.
> > >>
> > >> “ In addition to some intriguingly opaque sentiments, the inscription includes an early draft of a later published poem (appearing as “Voyage” in Collected Poems 1917 to 1982). In this public presentation, I explore how the presence of this book in the Hemingway collection in Idaho speaks not only to the relationship between these two literary giants, but also each man individually. “
> > >> https://www.emsarconi.com/projects-and-publications/project-one-tyz3d
> >
> > > We see that a certain reader was unable to discern what the question was. He has a heap of learning to do.
> > At least he probably knows that London isn't in Ireland...ha ha.
> We know that you couldn't understand the question either. What Mr. Damia asked was "What does "HEAP we" mean?" He didn't asked for the definition of "heap." Mr. Dockery cannot read for understanding and gave a stupid answer.. "Stupid is as stupid does."
>
> We think that you have the symptoms of frontotemporal dementia. Find a doctor.

I think you’re an ultracrepidarian, but that’s just my
professional opinion. Please, don’t take it personally.

Re: Construe

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Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2022 15:41:21 +0000
Subject: Re: Construe
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From: will.doc...@gmail.com (W.Dockery)
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 by: W.Dockery - Sun, 2 Oct 2022 15:41 UTC

NancyGene wrote:

> On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 7:18:51 PM UTC, Zod wrote:
>> NancyGene wrote:
>>
>> > On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 9:55:32 AM UTC, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>> >> On Friday, September 30, 2022 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> >
>> >> > Voyage by Archibald MacLeish
>> >> >
>> >> > for Ernest Hemingway
>> >> >
>> >> > HEAP we these coppered hulls
>> >> > With headed poppies
>> >> > And garlic longed-for by the eager dead
>> >> > Keep we with sun-caught sails
>> >> > The westward ocean
>> >> > Raise we that island on the sea at last
>> >> > Steep to the gull-less shore
>> >> > Across the sea rush
>> >> > Trade we our cargoes with the dead for sleep.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > What does "HEAP we" mean? What is this poem about? Note that the
>> >> > poem is "for Ernest Hemingway".
>> >> >
>> >> > I have some ideas, but please tell me what you think before I share
>> >> > them with you.
>> >> I think you’re a nut.
>> >>
>> >> “ In addition to some intriguingly opaque sentiments, the inscription includes an early draft of a later published poem (appearing as “Voyage” in Collected Poems 1917 to 1982). In this public presentation, I explore how the presence of this book in the Hemingway collection in Idaho speaks not only to the relationship between these two literary giants, but also each man individually. “
>> >> https://www.emsarconi.com/projects-and-publications/project-one-tyz3d
>>
>> > We see that a certain reader was unable to discern what the question was. He has a heap of learning to do.
>> At least he probably knows that London isn't in Ireland...ha ha.

> We know that you couldn't understand the question either.

Sorry, NancyGene, you're wrong about that, as well.

> What Mr. Damia asked was "What does "HEAP we" mean?" He didn't asked for the definition of "heap."

Then Mack should have understood that "heap we" is simply "we heap", or in more common language, "we pile".

HTH and HAND.

Re: Construe

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From: drsteerf...@yahoo.com (Mack A. Damia)
Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments
Subject: Re: Construe
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 by: Mack A. Damia - Mon, 3 Oct 2022 00:05 UTC

On Sun, 2 Oct 2022 15:41:21 +0000, will.dockery@gmail.com (W.Dockery)
wrote:

>NancyGene wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 7:18:51 PM UTC, Zod wrote:
>>> NancyGene wrote:
>>>
>>> > On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 9:55:32 AM UTC, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>>> >> On Friday, September 30, 2022 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> > Voyage by Archibald MacLeish
>>> >> >
>>> >> > for Ernest Hemingway
>>> >> >
>>> >> > HEAP we these coppered hulls
>>> >> > With headed poppies
>>> >> > And garlic longed-for by the eager dead
>>> >> > Keep we with sun-caught sails
>>> >> > The westward ocean
>>> >> > Raise we that island on the sea at last
>>> >> > Steep to the gull-less shore
>>> >> > Across the sea rush
>>> >> > Trade we our cargoes with the dead for sleep.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > What does "HEAP we" mean? What is this poem about? Note that the
>>> >> > poem is "for Ernest Hemingway".
>>> >> >
>>> >> > I have some ideas, but please tell me what you think before I share
>>> >> > them with you.
>>> >> I think you’re a nut.
>>> >>
>>> >> “ In addition to some intriguingly opaque sentiments, the inscription includes an early draft of a later published poem (appearing as “Voyage” in Collected Poems 1917 to 1982). In this public presentation, I explore how the presence of this book in the Hemingway collection in Idaho speaks not only to the relationship between these two literary giants, but also each man individually. “
>>> >> https://www.emsarconi.com/projects-and-publications/project-one-tyz3d
>>>
>>> > We see that a certain reader was unable to discern what the question was. He has a heap of learning to do.
>>> At least he probably knows that London isn't in Ireland...ha ha.
>
>> We know that you couldn't understand the question either.
>
>Sorry, NancyGene, you're wrong about that, as well.
>
>> What Mr. Damia asked was "What does "HEAP we" mean?" He didn't asked for the definition of "heap."
>
>Then Mack should have understood that "heap we" is simply "we heap", or in more common language, "we pile".

That's an obvious conclusion, but I don't think it is correct.

I rather think that it means, "We are overwhelmed with...." I posted
a link connecting "HEAP" with "overwhelm", and it is merely a guess.

Why is "HEAP" capitalized? It is fine to say that this is the way it
was done; that the first word is capitalized, but check other MacLeish
poems. Are the first words capitalized?

Re: Construe

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From: georgeda...@yahoo.ca (George J. Dance)
Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments
Subject: Re: Construe
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2022 20:59:33 -0400
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 by: George J. Dance - Mon, 3 Oct 2022 00:59 UTC

On 2022-10-01 2:42 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 10:35:09 -0700 (PDT), Victor Hugo Fan
> <vhugofan@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 1:28:55 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>> On Fri, 30 Sep 2022 18:48:55 -0700, Mack A. Damia
>>> <drstee...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Voyage by Archibald MacLeish
>>>>
>>>> for Ernest Hemingway
>>>>
>>>> HEAP we these coppered hulls
>>>> With headed poppies
>>>> And garlic longed-for by the eager dead
>>>> Keep we with sun-caught sails
>>>> The westward ocean
>>>> Raise we that island on the sea at last
>>>> Steep to the gull-less shore
>>>> Across the sea rush
>>>> Trade we our cargoes with the dead for sleep.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What does "HEAP we" mean? What is this poem about? Note that the
>>>> poem is "for Ernest Hemingway".
>>>>
>>>> I have some ideas, but please tell me what you think before I share
>>>> them with you.
>>> My take, and I am not saying that this correct:
>>>
>>> MacLeish is reminiscing with Hemingway (both ambulance drivers in
>>> World War I, and both saw action) about their experiences in war by
>>> using imagery in a kind of elegy: Copper hulls of ships, rows of
>>> poppies, garlic, etc.
>>>
>>> "HEAP we with..." = "We are overwhelmed with...."
>>>
>>> Found a link between "HEAP" and "overwhelm".
>>>
>>> IDIOM ABOUT HEAP:
>>>
>>> all of a heap, Informal.
>>>
>>> overwhelmed with astonishment; amazed:
>>> We were struck all of a heap upon hearing of their divorce.
>>>
>>> https://www.dictionary.com/browse/heap
>>>
>>> The fact that the word is capitalized is overwhelming in itself.
>>>
>>> Not certain what the year it was written -1933 - has to do with it.
>>> Could it be that he is referring to taking bodies of the fallen
>>> soldiers of World War I back to England from France? "Westward
>>> ocean", "island".
>>>
>>> Appreciate your comments. More?
>>
>> Hi Mack....
>
> Good morning!
>
>> I thought the ****copper hulls*** might be empty shells and bullets
after firing....
>
> Could be, but hulls of ships are coated with copper sheathing to
> protect them from the sea water.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_sheathing
Did you read the article? Copper sheathing is something new that came in
in the 18th century AD. The ancient Greeks used lead, sometimes, but the
most common sheathing was a second wooden hull, which could be replaced
regularly.

Either MacLeish was unaware of that, or "copper" has some significance,
as he put it in deliberately. Since it sounds to me that he's talking
about an early trading expedition to the Isles of the Blessed, the
significance I got from it was to date the time of the trading trip as
pre-Bronze Age. But that may not be the reason, or the only reason, for
the word.

> I think poppies have been traditionally associated with the dead
> soldiers of World War I. "In Flanders Field" by John McCrae.
>
True, but (as they poppies are being taken to the dead in the surface
explanation) this doesn't support your any particular interpretation;
it's explained the surface explanation on its own.

> Garlic was used as an antiseptic and also used to hide the odor of
> decay.
>
> Gull-less shore - isolation, the crisis of war.
>
> When the boat reaches England (?) the dead bodies will be unloaded and
> the soldiers/sailors can sleep. (May be a stretch?)
>
It may be a stretch, but it may be the hidden meaning. The fact it's
dedicated to Hemingway (and the info you mentioned about them both
driving amublances) is a point in favor of your interpretation.

One thing I think supports your interpretation is that, in Greek
mythology, the paradise of the Isles of the Blessed was not for the deat
in general, but was a sort of exclusive resort only for the most elite
of heroes.

Re: Construe

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From: georgeda...@yahoo.ca (George J. Dance)
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Subject: Re: Construe
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 by: George J. Dance - Mon, 3 Oct 2022 01:27 UTC

On 2022-10-02 8:05 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Oct 2022 15:41:21 +0000, will.dockery@gmail.com (W.Dockery)
> wrote:
>
>> NancyGene wrote:
>>
>>> On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 7:18:51 PM UTC, Zod wrote:
>>>> NancyGene wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 9:55:32 AM UTC, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>>>>>> On Friday, September 30, 2022 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia
wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Voyage by Archibald MacLeish
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> for Ernest Hemingway
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> HEAP we these coppered hulls
>>>>>>> With headed poppies
>>>>>>> And garlic longed-for by the eager dead
>>>>>>> Keep we with sun-caught sails
>>>>>>> The westward ocean
>>>>>>> Raise we that island on the sea at last
>>>>>>> Steep to the gull-less shore
>>>>>>> Across the sea rush
>>>>>>> Trade we our cargoes with the dead for sleep.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What does "HEAP we" mean? What is this poem about? Note that the
>>>>>>> poem is "for Ernest Hemingway".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have some ideas, but please tell me what you think before I share
>>>>>>> them with you.
>>>>>> I think you’re a nut.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “ In addition to some intriguingly opaque sentiments, the
inscription includes an early draft of a later published poem (appearing
as “Voyage” in Collected Poems 1917 to 1982). In this public
presentation, I explore how the presence of this book in the Hemingway
collection in Idaho speaks not only to the relationship between these
two literary giants, but also each man individually. “
>>>>>>
https://www.emsarconi.com/projects-and-publications/project-one-tyz3d
>>>>
>>>>> We see that a certain reader was unable to discern what the
question was. He has a heap of learning to do.
>>>> At least he probably knows that London isn't in Ireland...ha ha.
>>
>>> We know that you couldn't understand the question either.
>>
>> Sorry, NancyGene, you're wrong about that, as well.
>>
>>> What Mr. Damia asked was "What does "HEAP we" mean?" He didn't
asked for the definition of "heap."
>>
>> Then Mack should have understood that "heap we" is simply "we heap",
or in more common language, "we pile".
>
> That's an obvious conclusion, but I don't think it is correct.

That is the obvious or surface meaning: the traders are loading up piles
of poppies and garlic for transport to the Isles of the Blessed. The
surface meaning is not the only meaning, though, and assuming there is
one that's how the poet would indicate it, by using words to say more
than one thing.

> I rather think that it means, "We are overwhelmed with...." I posted
> a link connecting "HEAP" with "overwhelm", and it is merely a guess.

It's plausible. If, as is likely with modern poetry, the poem has a
meaning in addition to the obvious meaning, that's the way to decode it;
by teasing out the alternate meanings of the words he uses.

> Why is "HEAP" capitalized? It is fine to say that this is the way it
> was done; that the first word is capitalized, but check other MacLeish
> poems. Are the first words capitalized?
It's a printers' convention, not an author's. The first word of a poem,
3 or more letters long, was capitalized; if it was less than 3 letters,
the first two words were capitalized.

As you say, let's check. Here's the book where I found "Voyages,"
MacLeish's /Poems, 1924-1933/. The above convention is followed for
every poem I checked in the book.

Re: Construe

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Subject: Re: Construe
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 by: Mack A. Damia - Mon, 3 Oct 2022 01:53 UTC

On Sun, 2 Oct 2022 21:27:40 -0400, "George J. Dance"
<georgedance04@yahoo.ca> wrote:

>On 2022-10-02 8:05 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > On Sun, 2 Oct 2022 15:41:21 +0000, will.dockery@gmail.com (W.Dockery)
> > wrote:
> >
> >> NancyGene wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 7:18:51 PM UTC, Zod wrote:
> >>>> NancyGene wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 9:55:32 AM UTC, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >>>>>> On Friday, September 30, 2022 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia
>wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> Voyage by Archibald MacLeish
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> for Ernest Hemingway
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> HEAP we these coppered hulls
> >>>>>>> With headed poppies
> >>>>>>> And garlic longed-for by the eager dead
> >>>>>>> Keep we with sun-caught sails
> >>>>>>> The westward ocean
> >>>>>>> Raise we that island on the sea at last
> >>>>>>> Steep to the gull-less shore
> >>>>>>> Across the sea rush
> >>>>>>> Trade we our cargoes with the dead for sleep.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> What does "HEAP we" mean? What is this poem about? Note that the
> >>>>>>> poem is "for Ernest Hemingway".
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I have some ideas, but please tell me what you think before I share
> >>>>>>> them with you.
> >>>>>> I think you’re a nut.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> “ In addition to some intriguingly opaque sentiments, the
>inscription includes an early draft of a later published poem (appearing
>as “Voyage” in Collected Poems 1917 to 1982). In this public
>presentation, I explore how the presence of this book in the Hemingway
>collection in Idaho speaks not only to the relationship between these
>two literary giants, but also each man individually. “
> >>>>>>
>https://www.emsarconi.com/projects-and-publications/project-one-tyz3d
> >>>>
> >>>>> We see that a certain reader was unable to discern what the
>question was. He has a heap of learning to do.
> >>>> At least he probably knows that London isn't in Ireland...ha ha.
> >>
> >>> We know that you couldn't understand the question either.
> >>
> >> Sorry, NancyGene, you're wrong about that, as well.
> >>
> >>> What Mr. Damia asked was "What does "HEAP we" mean?" He didn't
>asked for the definition of "heap."
> >>
> >> Then Mack should have understood that "heap we" is simply "we heap",
>or in more common language, "we pile".
> >
> > That's an obvious conclusion, but I don't think it is correct.
>
>That is the obvious or surface meaning: the traders are loading up piles
>of poppies and garlic for transport to the Isles of the Blessed. The
>surface meaning is not the only meaning, though, and assuming there is
>one that's how the poet would indicate it, by using words to say more
>than one thing.
>
> > I rather think that it means, "We are overwhelmed with...." I posted
> > a link connecting "HEAP" with "overwhelm", and it is merely a guess.
>
>It's plausible. If, as is likely with modern poetry, the poem has a
>meaning in addition to the obvious meaning, that's the way to decode it;
>by teasing out the alternate meanings of the words he uses.
>
> > Why is "HEAP" capitalized? It is fine to say that this is the way it
> > was done; that the first word is capitalized, but check other MacLeish
> > poems. Are the first words capitalized?
>It's a printers' convention, not an author's. The first word of a poem,
>3 or more letters long, was capitalized; if it was less than 3 letters,
>the first two words were capitalized.
>
>As you say, let's check. Here's the book where I found "Voyages,"
>MacLeish's /Poems, 1924-1933/. The above convention is followed for
>every poem I checked in the book.

Found only one more among these:

https://www.best-poems.net/archibald_macleish/index.html?page=1

Checked the first page randomly and couldn't find one.

https://www.best-poems.net/archibald_macleish/index.html

Not certain what it signifies. Just guessing.

Re: Construe

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From: georgeda...@yahoo.ca (George J. Dance)
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Subject: Re: Construe
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2022 22:47:01 -0400
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 by: George J. Dance - Mon, 3 Oct 2022 02:47 UTC

On 2022-10-02 9:53 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Oct 2022 21:27:40 -0400, "George J. Dance"
> <georgedance04@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-10-02 8:05 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>> On Sun, 2 Oct 2022 15:41:21 +0000, will.dockery@gmail.com (W.Dockery)
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> NancyGene wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 7:18:51 PM UTC, Zod wrote:
>>>>>> NancyGene wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 9:55:32 AM UTC, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Friday, September 30, 2022 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Voyage by Archibald MacLeish
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> for Ernest Hemingway
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> HEAP we these coppered hulls
>>>>>>>>> With headed poppies
>>>>>>>>> And garlic longed-for by the eager dead
>>>>>>>>> Keep we with sun-caught sails
>>>>>>>>> The westward ocean
>>>>>>>>> Raise we that island on the sea at last
>>>>>>>>> Steep to the gull-less shore
>>>>>>>>> Across the sea rush
>>>>>>>>> Trade we our cargoes with the dead for sleep.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What does "HEAP we" mean? What is this poem about? Note that the
>>>>>>>>> poem is "for Ernest Hemingway".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have some ideas, but please tell me what you think before I
share
>>>>>>>>> them with you.
>>>>>>>> I think you’re a nut.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> “ In addition to some intriguingly opaque sentiments, the
>> inscription includes an early draft of a later published poem (appearing
>> as “Voyage” in Collected Poems 1917 to 1982). In this public
>> presentation, I explore how the presence of this book in the Hemingway
>> collection in Idaho speaks not only to the relationship between these
>> two literary giants, but also each man individually. “
>>>>>>>>
>> https://www.emsarconi.com/projects-and-publications/project-one-tyz3d
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We see that a certain reader was unable to discern what the
>> question was. He has a heap of learning to do.
>>>>>> At least he probably knows that London isn't in Ireland...ha ha.
>>>>
>>>>> We know that you couldn't understand the question either.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, NancyGene, you're wrong about that, as well.
>>>>
>>>>> What Mr. Damia asked was "What does "HEAP we" mean?" He didn't
>> asked for the definition of "heap."
>>>>
>>>> Then Mack should have understood that "heap we" is simply "we heap",
>> or in more common language, "we pile".
>>>
>>> That's an obvious conclusion, but I don't think it is correct.
>>
>> That is the obvious or surface meaning: the traders are loading up piles
>> of poppies and garlic for transport to the Isles of the Blessed. The
>> surface meaning is not the only meaning, though, and assuming there is
>> one that's how the poet would indicate it, by using words to say more
>> than one thing.
>>
>>> I rather think that it means, "We are overwhelmed with...." I posted
>>> a link connecting "HEAP" with "overwhelm", and it is merely a guess.
>>
>> It's plausible. If, as is likely with modern poetry, the poem has a
>> meaning in addition to the obvious meaning, that's the way to decode it;
>> by teasing out the alternate meanings of the words he uses.
>>
>>> Why is "HEAP" capitalized? It is fine to say that this is the way it
>>> was done; that the first word is capitalized, but check other MacLeish
>>> poems. Are the first words capitalized?
>> It's a printers' convention, not an author's. The first word of a poem,
>> 3 or more letters long, was capitalized; if it was less than 3 letters,
>> the first two words were capitalized.
>>
>> As you say, let's check. Here's the book where I found "Voyages,"
>> MacLeish's /Poems, 1924-1933/. The above convention is followed for
>> every poem I checked in the book.
>
> Found only one more among these:
>
> https://www.best-poems.net/archibald_macleish/index.html?page=1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.best-poems.net/archibald_macleish/index.html?page=1
>
> Checked the first page randomly and couldn't find one.
>
> https://www.best-poems.net/archibald_macleish/index.html
>> Not certain what it signifies.

I think those variants in the "Best Poems Encyclopedia" versions signify
only that BPE copied and pasted poems from different sources, and didn't
change them to make them uniform because it doesn't have a style
convention in that respect. "Voyage" and "Unfinished History" probably
were copied from the text of /Poems, 1924-1935/ (as their text is
consistent with it -- while "The Too-Late Born", though it's in the
book, was copied from somewhere else. That's all I'd conclude from BPE's
variants.

If you're thinking that MacLeish wanted to draw attention to the word
"heap" (as you're using that word as a piece of evidence for your
interpretation), you still have that anyway, since he was the one who
inverted the sentence to make it the opening word.

> Just guessing.

Sure.

Re: Construe

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Subject: Re: Construe
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 by: W-Dockery - Mon, 3 Oct 2022 04:58 UTC

Mack A. Damia wrote:

> On Sun, 2 Oct 2022 15:41:21 +0000, will.dockery@gmail.com (W.Dockery)
> wrote:

>>NancyGene wrote:
>>
>>> On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 7:18:51 PM UTC, Zod wrote:
>>>> NancyGene wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 9:55:32 AM UTC, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>>>> >> On Friday, September 30, 2022 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> > Voyage by Archibald MacLeish
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > for Ernest Hemingway
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > HEAP we these coppered hulls
>>>> >> > With headed poppies
>>>> >> > And garlic longed-for by the eager dead
>>>> >> > Keep we with sun-caught sails
>>>> >> > The westward ocean
>>>> >> > Raise we that island on the sea at last
>>>> >> > Steep to the gull-less shore
>>>> >> > Across the sea rush
>>>> >> > Trade we our cargoes with the dead for sleep.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > What does "HEAP we" mean? What is this poem about? Note that the
>>>> >> > poem is "for Ernest Hemingway".
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > I have some ideas, but please tell me what you think before I share
>>>> >> > them with you.
>>>> >> I think you’re a nut.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> “ In addition to some intriguingly opaque sentiments, the inscription includes an early draft of a later published poem (appearing as “Voyage” in Collected Poems 1917 to 1982). In this public presentation, I explore how the presence of this book in the Hemingway collection in Idaho speaks not only to the relationship between these two literary giants, but also each man individually. “
>>>> >> https://www.emsarconi.com/projects-and-publications/project-one-tyz3d
>>>>
>>>> > We see that a certain reader was unable to discern what the question was. He has a heap of learning to do.
>>>> At least he probably knows that London isn't in Ireland...ha ha.
>>
>>> We know that you couldn't understand the question either.
>>
>>Sorry, NancyGene, you're wrong about that, as well.
>>
>>> What Mr. Damia asked was "What does "HEAP we" mean?" He didn't asked for the definition of "heap."
>>
>>Then Mack should have understood that "heap we" is simply "we heap", or in more common language, "we pile".

> That's an obvious conclusion, but I don't think it is correct.

> I rather think that it means, "We are overwhelmed with...." I posted
> a link connecting "HEAP" with "overwhelm", and it is merely a guess.

> Why is "HEAP" capitalized? It is fine to say that this is the way it
> was done; that the first word is capitalized, but check other MacLeish
> poems. Are the first words capitalized?

Good morning, Mack, I haven't read much from this poet, so I'll need to investigate him a bit more.

HTH and HAND.

Re: Construe

<05fe5a87-48b8-4480-bc20-e4e177b9055bn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Construe
From: hieronym...@gmail.com (Spam-I-Am)
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 by: Spam-I-Am - Mon, 3 Oct 2022 10:06 UTC

On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 11:45:04 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
> On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 9:55:32 AM UTC, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > On Friday, September 30, 2022 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > Voyage by Archibald MacLeish
> > >
> > > for Ernest Hemingway
> > >
> > > HEAP we these coppered hulls
> > > With headed poppies
> > > And garlic longed-for by the eager dead
> > > Keep we with sun-caught sails
> > > The westward ocean
> > > Raise we that island on the sea at last
> > > Steep to the gull-less shore
> > > Across the sea rush
> > > Trade we our cargoes with the dead for sleep.
> > >
> > >
> > > What does "HEAP we" mean? What is this poem about? Note that the
> > > poem is "for Ernest Hemingway".
> > >
> > > I have some ideas, but please tell me what you think before I share
> > > them with you.
> > I think you’re a nut.
> >
> > “ In addition to some intriguingly opaque sentiments, the inscription includes an early draft of a later published poem (appearing as “Voyage” in Collected Poems 1917 to 1982). In this public presentation, I explore how the presence of this book in the Hemingway collection in Idaho speaks not only to the relationship between these two literary giants, but also each man individually. “
> > https://www.emsarconi.com/projects-and-publications/project-one-tyz3d
> We see that a certain reader was unable to discern what the question was. He has a heap of learning to do.
>
> However, for the meaning of the poem, it is useful to know that it was written in 1933.

MacLiesh’s own handwriting suggests a writing date of Dec 1, 1926,
The poem, and MacLiesh’s personal comment, appear to be a response
to Hemingway’s ‘The Sun Also Rises’, which was published the same year.

“Dear Ernest: I don't want to make it awkward
Anything else would be inadequate
Therefore the rest is silence.”

Re: Construe

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Subject: Re: Construe
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 by: Will Dockery - Mon, 3 Oct 2022 10:45 UTC

Victor Hugo Fan wrote:

> On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 1:28:55 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Sep 2022 18:48:55 -0700, Mack A. Damia
>> <drstee...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Voyage by Archibald MacLeish
>> >
>> >for Ernest Hemingway
>> >
>> >HEAP we these coppered hulls
>> >With headed poppies
>> >And garlic longed-for by the eager dead
>> >Keep we with sun-caught sails
>> >The westward ocean
>> >Raise we that island on the sea at last
>> >Steep to the gull-less shore
>> >Across the sea rush
>> >Trade we our cargoes with the dead for sleep.
>> >
>> >
>> >What does "HEAP we" mean? What is this poem about? Note that the
>> >poem is "for Ernest Hemingway".
>> >
>> >I have some ideas, but please tell me what you think before I share
>> >them with you.
>> My take, and I am not saying that this correct:
>>
>> MacLeish is reminiscing with Hemingway (both ambulance drivers in
>> World War I, and both saw action) about their experiences in war by
>> using imagery in a kind of elegy: Copper hulls of ships, rows of
>> poppies, garlic, etc.
>>
>> "HEAP we with..." = "We are overwhelmed with...."
>>
>> Found a link between "HEAP" and "overwhelm".
>>
>> IDIOM ABOUT HEAP:
>>
>> all of a heap, Informal.
>>
>> overwhelmed with astonishment; amazed:
>> We were struck all of a heap upon hearing of their divorce.
>>
>> https://www.dictionary.com/browse/heap
>>
>> The fact that the word is capitalized is overwhelming in itself.
>>
>> Not certain what the year it was written -1933 - has to do with it.
>> Could it be that he is referring to taking bodies of the fallen
>> soldiers of World War I back to England from France? "Westward
>> ocean", "island".
>>
>> Appreciate your comments. More?

> Hi Mack....

> I thought the ****copper hulls*** might be empty shells and bullets after firing....

Exactly, "coppered hulls", heaps of these would no doubt be found beside cannons, and other weapons during and after a battle.

Re: Construe

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Subject: Re: Construe
From: hieronym...@gmail.com (Spam-I-Am)
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 by: Spam-I-Am - Mon, 3 Oct 2022 10:51 UTC

On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 6:45:11 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> Victor Hugo Fan wrote:
>
> > On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 1:28:55 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> >> On Fri, 30 Sep 2022 18:48:55 -0700, Mack A. Damia
> >> <drstee...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Voyage by Archibald MacLeish
> >> >
> >> >for Ernest Hemingway
> >> >
> >> >HEAP we these coppered hulls
> >> >With headed poppies
> >> >And garlic longed-for by the eager dead
> >> >Keep we with sun-caught sails
> >> >The westward ocean
> >> >Raise we that island on the sea at last
> >> >Steep to the gull-less shore
> >> >Across the sea rush
> >> >Trade we our cargoes with the dead for sleep.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >What does "HEAP we" mean? What is this poem about? Note that the
> >> >poem is "for Ernest Hemingway".
> >> >
> >> >I have some ideas, but please tell me what you think before I share
> >> >them with you.
> >> My take, and I am not saying that this correct:
> >>
> >> MacLeish is reminiscing with Hemingway (both ambulance drivers in
> >> World War I, and both saw action) about their experiences in war by
> >> using imagery in a kind of elegy: Copper hulls of ships, rows of
> >> poppies, garlic, etc.
> >>
> >> "HEAP we with..." = "We are overwhelmed with...."
> >>
> >> Found a link between "HEAP" and "overwhelm".
> >>
> >> IDIOM ABOUT HEAP:
> >>
> >> all of a heap, Informal.
> >>
> >> overwhelmed with astonishment; amazed:
> >> We were struck all of a heap upon hearing of their divorce.
> >>
> >> https://www.dictionary.com/browse/heap
> >>
> >> The fact that the word is capitalized is overwhelming in itself.
> >>
> >> Not certain what the year it was written -1933 - has to do with it.
> >> Could it be that he is referring to taking bodies of the fallen
> >> soldiers of World War I back to England from France? "Westward
> >> ocean", "island".
> >>
> >> Appreciate your comments. More?
>
> > Hi Mack....
> > I thought the ****copper hulls*** might be empty shells and bullets after firing....
> Exactly, "coppered hulls", heaps of these would no doubt be found beside cannons, and other weapons during and after a battle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_sheathing

Re: Construe

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Subject: Re: Construe
From: opb...@yahoo.com (Will Dockery)
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 by: Will Dockery - Mon, 3 Oct 2022 11:19 UTC

On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 6:51:46 AM UTC-4, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 6:45:11 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > Victor Hugo Fan wrote:
> >
> > > On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 1:28:55 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > >> On Fri, 30 Sep 2022 18:48:55 -0700, Mack A. Damia
> > >> <drstee...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> >Voyage by Archibald MacLeish
> > >> >
> > >> >for Ernest Hemingway
> > >> >
> > >> >HEAP we these coppered hulls
> > >> >With headed poppies
> > >> >And garlic longed-for by the eager dead
> > >> >Keep we with sun-caught sails
> > >> >The westward ocean
> > >> >Raise we that island on the sea at last
> > >> >Steep to the gull-less shore
> > >> >Across the sea rush
> > >> >Trade we our cargoes with the dead for sleep.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >What does "HEAP we" mean? What is this poem about? Note that the
> > >> >poem is "for Ernest Hemingway".
> > >> >
> > >> >I have some ideas, but please tell me what you think before I share
> > >> >them with you.
> > >> My take, and I am not saying that this correct:
> > >>
> > >> MacLeish is reminiscing with Hemingway (both ambulance drivers in
> > >> World War I, and both saw action) about their experiences in war by
> > >> using imagery in a kind of elegy: Copper hulls of ships, rows of
> > >> poppies, garlic, etc.
> > >>
> > >> "HEAP we with..." = "We are overwhelmed with...."
> > >>
> > >> Found a link between "HEAP" and "overwhelm".
> > >>
> > >> IDIOM ABOUT HEAP:
> > >>
> > >> all of a heap, Informal.
> > >>
> > >> overwhelmed with astonishment; amazed:
> > >> We were struck all of a heap upon hearing of their divorce.
> > >>
> > >> https://www.dictionary.com/browse/heap
> > >>
> > >> The fact that the word is capitalized is overwhelming in itself.
> > >>
> > >> Not certain what the year it was written -1933 - has to do with it.
> > >> Could it be that he is referring to taking bodies of the fallen
> > >> soldiers of World War I back to England from France? "Westward
> > >> ocean", "island".
> > >>
> > >> Appreciate your comments. More?
> >
> > > Hi Mack....
> > > I thought the ****copper hulls*** might be empty shells and bullets after firing....
> > Exactly, "coppered hulls", heaps of these would no doubt be found beside cannons, and other weapons during and after a battle.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_sheathing

https://store.nwtmint.com/product_details/7198/12_Gauge_Shotgun_Shells_Box_of_5_6.5_oz._Signature_Copper_Bullets_/index.html


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