Teasing and tempting and playing
We loved like children, us both
But somebody, hiding a smile,
Set up the ungentle nets -
And here we are at the harbor,
Not seeing the wished-for abodes,
But knowing that I will be yours
In the heart, without words, until death.

You told me of all things - so early!
I guessed them so late! In our hearts
A wound is eternal, a silent
Question exists in our eyes,
The desert on earth is so endless,
The heaven, so high, has no stars,
Revealed is the tender secret,
And frost rules for centuries.

I will talk to shades! O my dear,
To forget you I do not have might,
Your visage can't move under shadow
Of eyelids gone over my eyes...
It's darkening... Shutters have closed,
On all things descending is night...
I love you, one ghostly-eternal,
And only you - and always!

By Marina Tsvetayeva
Translated from Russian by Ilya Shambat

On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 9:03:39 PM UTC-4, Ilya Shambat wrote:
> Teasing and tempting and playing
> We loved like children, us both
> But somebody, hiding a smile,
> Set up the ungentle nets -
> And here we are at the harbor,
> Not seeing the wished-for abodes,
> But knowing that I will be yours
> In the heart, without words, until death.
>
> You told me of all things - so early!
> I guessed them so late! In our hearts
> A wound is eternal, a silent
> Question exists in our eyes,
> The desert on earth is so endless,
> The heaven, so high, has no stars,
> Revealed is the tender secret,
> And frost rules for centuries.
>
> I will talk to shades! O my dear,
> To forget you I do not have might,
> Your visage can't move under shadow
> Of eyelids gone over my eyes...
> It's darkening... Shutters have closed,
> On all things descending is night...
> I love you, one ghostly-eternal,
> And only you - and always!
>
> By Marina Tsvetayeva
> Translated from Russian by Ilya Shambat

This isn't about this specifically or meant to berate you:
Sir, after hearing the Wagner Group's leader make his statement today, a translate version it seemed, that I realize what's often wrong with yours. Just a simple mistake that is hard to avoid since Russian doesn't have articles, but it makes for broken English, makes your work look amateurish to English readers who won't care that Russian doesn't have articles, they will just go by what they're reading from their perspective. Again, this isn't to berate you, even though you have pissed us off with your essays that made us feminists look terrible, we still have read some of your work, and just like with the Motherland we hold hope that you may listen to reason so to improve your work.

> This isn't about this specifically or meant to berate you:
> Sir, after hearing the Wagner Group's leader make his statement today, a translate version it seemed, that I realize what's often wrong with yours. Just a simple mistake that is hard to avoid since Russian doesn't have articles, but it makes for broken English, makes your work look amateurish to English readers who won't care that Russian doesn't have articles, they will just go by what they're reading from their perspective. Again, this isn't to berate you, even though you have pissed us off with your essays that made us feminists look terrible, we still have read some of your work, and just like with the Motherland we hold hope that you may listen to reason so to improve your work.

I am not against feminism as such. I am against wrong directions in feminism that attack family, beauty and love and teach women to be horrible people.. For that matter I am also against the other side in the gender conflict. They have been teaching men to be brutal and corrupt. On both sides we see a vast usurpation of power, with people claiming leadership of 50% of humanity without 50% of humanity having voted for them to do so. In both cases precisely the wrong people get hurt. The feminists take it out on men nearest the liberal centers of learning and culture who are the least misogynistic men out there; and the other side takes it out on women in right-wing or Muslim or disadvantaged communities who have done the least to cause militant feminism. Basically, both sides deserve one another, and the rest of us deserve to be free of both of them. For that reason I advocate cross-cultural relationships. These will bring together men who are willing to be good to women with women who are willing to be good to men. This will create better relationships for the parties involved; it will also create an incentive on the offending gender in each case to improve their treatment of the other gender, or else see the other gender leave in large numbers to be with people who are willing to be good to them.

As for Wagner, while Russians have never been good at politics, they have been good at literature, and making available for English-speaking audiences the treasures of Russian culture is a valid endeavor. For that matter Indian society is a bad one, but that does not discredit the Indian yogis. Take what's good from them and discard what's bad in them. Don't learn politics from the Russians. Do learn from them literature.

On Saturday, June 24, 2023 at 2:14:56 AM UTC-4, Ilya Shambat wrote:
> > This isn't about this specifically or meant to berate you:
> > Sir, after hearing the Wagner Group's leader make his statement today, a translate version it seemed, that I realize what's often wrong with yours.. Just a simple mistake that is hard to avoid since Russian doesn't have articles, but it makes for broken English, makes your work look amateurish to English readers who won't care that Russian doesn't have articles, they will just go by what they're reading from their perspective. Again, this isn't to berate you, even though you have pissed us off with your essays that made us feminists look terrible, we still have read some of your work, and just like with the Motherland we hold hope that you may listen to reason so to improve your work.
> I am not against feminism as such. I am against wrong directions in feminism that attack family, beauty and love and teach women to be horrible people. For that matter I am also against the other side in the gender conflict.. They have been teaching men to be brutal and corrupt. On both sides we see a vast usurpation of power, with people claiming leadership of 50% of humanity without 50% of humanity having voted for them to do so. In both cases precisely the wrong people get hurt. The feminists take it out on men nearest the liberal centers of learning and culture who are the least misogynistic men out there; and the other side takes it out on women in right-wing or Muslim or disadvantaged communities who have done the least to cause militant feminism. Basically, both sides deserve one another, and the rest of us deserve to be free of both of them. For that reason I advocate cross-cultural relationships. These will bring together men who are willing to be good to women with women who are willing to be good to men. This will create better relationships for the parties involved; it will also create an incentive on the offending gender in each case to improve their treatment of the other gender, or else see the other gender leave in large numbers to be with people who are willing to be good to them.
>
> As for Wagner, while Russians have never been good at politics, they have been good at literature, and making available for English-speaking audiences the treasures of Russian culture is a valid endeavor. For that matter Indian society is a bad one, but that does not discredit the Indian yogis. Take what's good from them and discard what's bad in them. Don't learn politics from the Russians. Do learn from them literature.

A pleasant surprise to get a response, but my apology to keep you waiting-- I'm busy elsewhere but will have a civil response for you soon. Everyone else can leave this thread be-- the enough other threads to fight on.

On Saturday, June 24, 2023 at 5:08:41 AM UTC-4, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> On Saturday, June 24, 2023 at 2:14:56 AM UTC-4, Ilya Shambat wrote:
>
> > > This isn't about this specifically or meant to berate you:
> > > Sir, after hearing the Wagner Group's leader make his statement today, a translate version it seemed, that I realize what's often wrong with yours. Just a simple mistake that is hard to avoid since Russian doesn't have articles, but it makes for broken English, makes your work look amateurish to English readers who won't care that Russian doesn't have articles, they will just go by what they're reading from their perspective. Again, this isn't to berate you, even though you have pissed us off with your essays that made us feminists look terrible, we still have read some of your work, and just like with the Motherland we hold hope that you may listen to reason so to improve your work.
> > I am not against feminism as such. I am against wrong directions in feminism that attack family, beauty and love and teach women to be horrible people. For that matter I am also against the other side in the gender conflict. They have been teaching men to be brutal and corrupt. On both sides we see a vast usurpation of power, with people claiming leadership of 50% of humanity without 50% of humanity having voted for them to do so. In both cases precisely the wrong people get hurt. The feminists take it out on men nearest the liberal centers of learning and culture who are the least misogynistic men out there; and the other side takes it out on women in right-wing or Muslim or disadvantaged communities who have done the least to cause militant feminism. Basically, both sides deserve one another, and the rest of us deserve to be free of both of them. For that reason I advocate cross-cultural relationships. These will bring together men who are willing to be good to women with women who are willing to be good to men. This will create better relationships for the parties involved; it will also create an incentive on the offending gender in each case to improve their treatment of the other gender, or else see the other gender leave in large numbers to be with people who are willing to be good to them.
> >
> > As for Wagner, while Russians have never been good at politics, they have been good at literature, and making available for English-speaking audiences the treasures of Russian culture is a valid endeavor. For that matter Indian society is a bad one, but that does not discredit the Indian yogis. Take what's good from them and discard what's bad in them. Don't learn politics from the Russians. Do learn from them literature.
> A pleasant surprise to get a response, but my apology to keep you waiting-- I'm busy elsewhere but will have a civil response for you soon. Everyone else can leave this thread be-- the enough other threads to fight on.

Okay, I have no problem with that.

On Saturday, June 24, 2023 at 2:14:56 AM UTC-4, Ilya Shambat wrote:
> > This isn't about this specifically or meant to berate you:
> > Sir, after hearing the Wagner Group's leader make his statement today, a translate version it seemed, that I realize what's often wrong with yours.. Just a simple mistake that is hard to avoid since Russian doesn't have articles, but it makes for broken English, makes your work look amateurish to English readers who won't care that Russian doesn't have articles, they will just go by what they're reading from their perspective. Again, this isn't to berate you, even though you have pissed us off with your essays that made us feminists look terrible, we still have read some of your work, and just like with the Motherland we hold hope that you may listen to reason so to improve your work.
> I am not against feminism as such. I am against wrong directions in feminism that attack family, beauty and love and teach women to be horrible people. For that matter I am also against the other side in the gender conflict.. They have been teaching men to be brutal and corrupt. On both sides we see a vast usurpation of power, with people claiming leadership of 50% of humanity without 50% of humanity having voted for them to do so. In both cases precisely the wrong people get hurt. The feminists take it out on men nearest the liberal centers of learning and culture who are the least misogynistic men out there; and the other side takes it out on women in right-wing or Muslim or disadvantaged communities who have done the least to cause militant feminism. Basically, both sides deserve one another, and the rest of us deserve to be free of both of them. For that reason I advocate cross-cultural relationships. These will bring together men who are willing to be good to women with women who are willing to be good to men. This will create better relationships for the parties involved; it will also create an incentive on the offending gender in each case to improve their treatment of the other gender, or else see the other gender leave in large numbers to be with people who are willing to be good to them.
>
> As for Wagner, while Russians have never been good at politics, they have been good at literature, and making available for English-speaking audiences the treasures of Russian culture is a valid endeavor. For that matter Indian society is a bad one, but that does not discredit the Indian yogis. Take what's good from them and discard what's bad in them. Don't learn politics from the Russians. Do learn from them literature.

Sorry for the delay. Before I posted the first time, I did some quick research about translating Russian to English so I wasn't speaking without knowing your perspective and fully knowing the daunting task you have undertaken. Russian has words that don't have English equivalents, like tosca was it? A depression so ingrained that words like melancholy and depression pale in comparison. Definitely a uniquely Russian-- and Ash-- sentiment.

I figured you were speaking of extremist feminists-- but you have to make that crystal clear in your work. I've done papers about legal matters and if you don't get things exact, especially your foundation elements, your whole premise is easily torn down. Find someone good with English that you're comfortable to trust and have them advise you how your work comes across to English speakers. I do, and if I may brag for once, for they are brag worthy, much more than an old soldier and peacekeeper that Society has no use for. but a poor minority in a privileged dominated World, fortified by so many exclusionary barriers, so their merit didn't matter. Fortune only smiles upon a token few of the beggars of it, despite what success fairy tales promise. And why we're fervent feminist/egalitarian. Too many times there's no justice in this world just survival for the broken and the shameful stain of the deeds of the so called fittest. For what the fortunate privileged ignore, deny and destroy, deprives all of us of the full potential of our kind. It's a double edged sword that they like to rule by. But they don't care, only for their selves and forget that so will their fellow, caring not for them either. Fortune is a fickle hand, the deck is stacked with misfortune. That which elevates itself so haughtily is so much more vulnerable to being stripped of it overly vaunted glory.

Agreed about literature and politics.
It' ain't just the Russians that are horrible with politics, look at America right now-- it seems to be a human affliction. I have no gripes with my country, but plenty with it's Society-- too many are now making it questionable whether this World is worth living for. For the best people I've known have seemed to have left us all behind to our ill fated designs.

On Saturday, June 24, 2023 at 2:14:56 AM UTC-4, Ilya Shambat wrote:
>
> > This isn't about this specifically or meant to berate you:
> > Sir, after hearing the Wagner Group's leader make his statement today, a translate version it seemed, that I realize what's often wrong with yours.. Just a simple mistake that is hard to avoid since Russian doesn't have articles, but it makes for broken English, makes your work look amateurish to English readers who won't care that Russian doesn't have articles, they will just go by what they're reading from their perspective. Again, this isn't to berate you, even though you have pissed us off with your essays that made us feminists look terrible, we still have read some of your work, and just like with the Motherland we hold hope that you may listen to reason so to improve your work.
> I am not against feminism as such. I am against wrong directions in feminism that attack family, beauty and love and teach women to be horrible people. For that matter I am also against the other side in the gender conflict.. They have been teaching men to be brutal and corrupt. On both sides we see a vast usurpation of power, with people claiming leadership of 50% of humanity without 50% of humanity having voted for them to do so. In both cases precisely the wrong people get hurt. The feminists take it out on men nearest the liberal centers of learning and culture who are the least misogynistic men out there; and the other side takes it out on women in right-wing or Muslim or disadvantaged communities who have done the least to cause militant feminism. Basically, both sides deserve one another, and the rest of us deserve to be free of both of them. For that reason I advocate cross-cultural relationships. These will bring together men who are willing to be good to women with women who are willing to be good to men. This will create better relationships for the parties involved; it will also create an incentive on the offending gender in each case to improve their treatment of the other gender, or else see the other gender leave in large numbers to be with people who are willing to be good to them.
>
> As for Wagner, while Russians have never been good at politics, they have been good at literature, and making available for English-speaking audiences the treasures of Russian culture is a valid endeavor. For that matter Indian society is a bad one, but that does not discredit the Indian yogis. Take what's good from them and discard what's bad in them. Don't learn politics from the Russians. Do learn from them literature.

Well put, Ilya.