On 03-May-24 19:22, Tim+ wrote:
> Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c90zjne2v0jo
>>
>
> Remind me, what caused the Luton airport car park fire?

A heated exchange of views (on the relative merits of EVs).

(Oops! I may have mixed up cause and effect.)

--
Sam Plusnet

On 3 May 2024 at 20:26:02 BST, "Tim+" <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:

> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 03/05/2024 19:46, mm0fmf wrote:
>>> On 03/05/2024 19:30, GB wrote:
>>>> On 03/05/2024 19:22, Tim+ wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Bollocks. Resale values are falling because prices are falling, in part
>>>>> due to makers having to meet sales targets. Battery life isn’t an
>>>>> issue.
>>>>
>>>> My Volvo is 18 years old, and it still drives reasonably well. I plan
>>>> to keep it a couple more years, then sell it on, whilst still working
>>>> well.
>>>>
>>>> Nobody really knows how long the lithium batteries in electric cars
>>>> will hold a reasonable charge. My experience with battery powered
>>>> devices suggests that they won't last as long as 18 years.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> A work colleague had a 2nd gen Prius Hybrid. He did well over 120k miles
>>> in 10 years and said that when he sold it, the hybrid "range" was about
>>> 90% of what it was when he bought 10 years earlier.
>>>
>> Hybrids don't need to have huge capacities, the batteries are different.
>
> They also get worked much harder than the batteries in full EVs and
> degenerate faster. If a Prius battery can last 10 years with the chemistry
> designed 10 years ago, do you really think that EV batteries have got
> worse?

Prius battery on a hybrid is prolly NiMH, same as my Auris - range a mile or
so. Plug in hybrid and full EV will be lithium.

--
First, find out who are the people you can not criticise. They are your oppressors. - George Orwell

In article <v13c7r$mo2v$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 03/05/2024 19:22, Tim+ wrote:
> > Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
> >> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c90zjne2v0jo
> >>
> >
> > Remind me, what caused the Luton airport car park fire?
> >
> > Tim
> >
> No one is saying for sure.
> All very quiet on the EV front.

> D notices at the minimum

Hardly. Nearly a month ago:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-68627759

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

In article
<441143279.736456613.698346.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net>,
Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
> charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
> > In article
> > <1613230813.736453121.482121.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net>,
> > Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
> >> Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
> >>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c90zjne2v0jo
> >>>
> >
> >> Remind me, what caused the Luton airport car park fire?
> >
> >> Tim
> >
> > According to the Fire Service, it was caused by a diesel engined
> > vehicle.
> >

> *I* know that, not sure the general public does though alas.

It was on BBC News - how else would they tell the general public?

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 3 May 2024 at 19:46:37 BST, "mm0fmf" <none@invalid.com> wrote:

> On 03/05/2024 19:30, GB wrote:
>> On 03/05/2024 19:22, Tim+ wrote:
>>
>>> Bollocks. Resale values are falling because prices are falling, in part
>>> due to makers having to meet sales targets. Battery life isn’t an issue.
>>
>> My Volvo is 18 years old, and it still drives reasonably well. I plan to
>> keep it a couple more years, then sell it on, whilst still working well.
>>
>> Nobody really knows how long the lithium batteries in electric cars will
>> hold a reasonable charge. My experience with battery powered devices
>> suggests that they won't last as long as 18 years.
>
> A work colleague had a 2nd gen Prius Hybrid. He did well over 120k miles
> in 10 years and said that when he sold it, the hybrid "range" was about
> 90% of what it was when he bought 10 years earlier.

But the hybrid range is only about 1.5 miles.

--
First of all, a message to English left-wing journalists and intellectuals generally: 'Do remember that dishonesty and cowardice always have to be paid for. Don't imagine that for years on end you can make yourself the boot-licking propagandist of the Soviet régime, or any other régime, and then suddenly return to mental decency. Once a whore, always a whore.'

George Orwell, 1 Sept 1944

charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
> In article
> <441143279.736456613.698346.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net>,
> Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
>> charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
>>> In article
>>> <1613230813.736453121.482121.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net>,
>>> Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
>>>> Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c90zjne2v0jo
>>>>>
>>>
>>>> Remind me, what caused the Luton airport car park fire?
>>>
>>>> Tim
>>>
>>> According to the Fire Service, it was caused by a diesel engined
>>> vehicle.
>>>
>
>> *I* know that, not sure the general public does though alas.
>
> It was on BBC News - how else would they tell the general public?
>

Sorry, by “general public” I really meant “conspiracy theorists”.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 5/3/2024 2:30 PM, GB wrote:
> On 03/05/2024 19:22, Tim+ wrote:
>
>> Bollocks.  Resale values are falling because prices are falling, in part
>> due to makers having to meet sales targets.  Battery life isn’t an issue.
>
> My Volvo is 18 years old, and it still drives reasonably well. I plan to keep it a couple more years, then sell it on, whilst still working well.
>
> Nobody really knows how long the lithium batteries in electric cars will hold a reasonable charge. My experience with battery powered devices suggests that they won't last as long as 18 years.

Actually, they do know.

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-1003a-battery-aging-in-an-electric-vehicle-ev

There are only 6000 cars as the dataset for these. Use with caution. They should be
drawing an extrapolation line, for easier end-user usage.

https://storage.googleapis.com/geotab-sandbox/ev-battery-degradation/index.html

[ https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-battery-health/ ]

Then you have to decide whether the end-of-life is 70% or 80% range, for a pack.

There are other models of cars (not Tesla) in Canada, that have
completely failed up in the driveway, and these cars are covered
by their warranty... and the company is refusing to honor the
warranty. There will be a law suit. The company claims they cannot
source a replacement pack (which means they did not try very hard).

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/leaf-nissan-owners-legal-action-battery-service-1.7148537

"a spokesperson for Nissan told CBC the company is "working diligently
on a compatible replacement battery for the 30kW-h Lithium Ion Battery,
which is no longer in production."
"

The deal is, if a car has no range to begin with, this increases
the risk "it won't end well". The car in question, does not have
the same refinements as modern cars.

Some day, there will be a robust after-market parts industry for
BEVs, but that does not exist at the moment.

For some of the cars, they can offer some usage out to the 17-18 year range.

It's when battery packs fail completely and utterly, now you're in trouble.
Packs are not supposed to fail that way. It's a financial disaster for
a car company, to have every unit fail within the warranty period.

This is why, if you're in the used market, you have to read up
on your chariot and its potential shortcomings.

*******

When the stationary storage (Megapacks) burned here, only two were damaged,
and they're back to back. The entire facility did not burn down. Water was
not poured onto the pack.

https://hackaday.com/2021/08/12/teslas-megapack-battery-burned-for-days-in-grid-storage-fire/

From a separate article:

"The origin of the fire was MP-1 and the most likely root cause of the fire
was a leak within the liquid cooling system of MP-1 causing arcing in the
power electronics of the Megapack's battery modules."

Paul

On 03/05/2024 20:26, Tim+ wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 03/05/2024 19:22, Tim+ wrote:
>>> Resale values are falling because prices are falling, in part
>>> due to makers having to meet sales targets. Battery life isn’t an issue.
>> Bless!
>>
>
> Is that the best you can do?
>
No more is needed.
Be happy and content in your safe space bubble
> Tim
>

--
"If you don’t read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

On 03/05/2024 20:33, Tim+ wrote:
> charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
>> In article <v13c7r$mo2v$1@dont-email.me>,
>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 03/05/2024 19:22, Tim+ wrote:
>>>> Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c90zjne2v0jo
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Remind me, what caused the Luton airport car park fire?
>>>>
>>>> Tim
>>>>
>>> No one is saying for sure.
>>> All very quiet on the EV front.
>>
>>> D notices at the minimum
>>
>> Hardly. Nearly a month ago:
>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-68627759
>>
>
> You won’t convince the likes of TNP. Alzheimer’s is cruel…
>
> Tim
>
Is that the best YOU can do?

--
"If you don’t read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

On 5/3/2024 5:37 PM, Colin Bignell wrote:
> On 03/05/2024 15:52, GB wrote:
>> On 03/05/2024 15:50, Jethro_uk wrote:
>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c90zjne2v0jo
>>
>> "But industry figures have challenged the decision, pointing to research that indicates petrol cars are considerably more likely to catch fire than EVs."
>
> I think the concern of the Fire Brigade involved has more to do with extinguishing them, if they do catch fire.
>

When one of the large (100MWh stationary battery storage) devices caught
fire, it burned one frame, and a bit of fire burned the lower corner
of the adjacent frame. The fire burned out. The vast majority of the equipment
was unharmed. Two rectangular boxes would need to be pulled, and
the wiring reinstalled around it.

Given unlimited resources, you can design safe battery structures.

Mobile batteries are another matter. The vehicles are heavy.
We don't want to make them more heavy (more moaning from the
audience about the topic and so on). On a certain site, where car reviews
are carried out, the comment section always has comments about the
mass of the vehicle. You don't want to make that worse (Hummer).

A battery fire *could* be stopped, if the pack had a cryogenic
fitting on the outside, to introduce a cold substance. (There is
a company who has been testing this.)

The problem with this approach, is the nature of fire departments
and the governments that fund them. The limitations are not
purely physics. Even if every fire house was fitted with
a "liquid nitrogen truck", in the event of a rural fire,
it might take 30 minutes for fire equipment to arrive on scene.
Which might be too little and too late.

In terms of the frequency of fires involving lithium, the
worst risk is with the crudest implementation. Chinese Ebikes
and batteries acquired from small no-name factories there.
Even large battery corporations make mistakes, but the thing
is, they have a quality culture that these smaller operations
don't have. A smaller factory could continue to make defective
batteries... forever, without correcting their mistakes.
BEVs do not source their batteries from the same source
as Chinese Ebikes. BEVs with heat pumps for conditioning packs,
stand a better chance of preserving the pack. Barring the usual
errors in wiring up the pack (shorted conductors, "stuff" touching
that wasn't supposed to touch).

In the case of that airport fire (no matter what kind of vehicle
caught fire), I await the report that tells me the time duration
from "start of fire" until "fire vehicles on scene". You can't
fight a fire, if you don't show up! Someone in that story,
deserves prison time. Way too much time elapsed, from the
fire happening, until the Bedford fire department was told about it.
Any sort of normal response, could have altered the outcome of
that fire.

Paul

On 03/05/2024 23:30, charles wrote:
> In article <v13ig4$o4dl$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 03/05/2024 20:08, charles wrote:
>>> In article
>>> <1613230813.736453121.482121.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net>,
>>> Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
>>>> Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c90zjne2v0jo
>>>>>
>>>
>>>> Remind me, what caused the Luton airport car park fire?
>>>
>>>> Tim
>>>
>>> According to the Fire Service, it was caused by a diesel engined
>>> vehicle.
>>>
>> with a lithium hybrid battery...
>
> That is not mentioned
>
Precisely
--
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit
atrocities.”

― Voltaire, Questions sur les Miracles à M. Claparede, Professeur de
Théologie à Genève, par un Proposant: Ou Extrait de Diverses Lettres de
M. de Voltaire

In article <v155jp$168as$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 03/05/2024 23:30, charles wrote:
> > In article <v13ig4$o4dl$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
> > <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >> On 03/05/2024 20:08, charles wrote:
> >>> In article
> >>> <1613230813.736453121.482121.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net>,
> >>> Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
> >>>> Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
> >>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c90zjne2v0jo
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>> Remind me, what caused the Luton airport car park fire?
> >>>
> >>>> Tim
> >>>
> >>> According to the Fire Service, it was caused by a diesel engined
> >>> vehicle.
> >>>
> >> with a lithium hybrid battery...
> >
> > That is not mentioned
> >
> Precisely

precisely what?

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 04/05/2024 14:30, charles wrote:
> In article <v155jp$168as$1@dont-email.me>,
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 03/05/2024 23:30, charles wrote:
>>> In article <v13ig4$o4dl$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 03/05/2024 20:08, charles wrote:
>>>>> In article
>>>>> <1613230813.736453121.482121.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net>,
>>>>> Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
>>>>>> Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c90zjne2v0jo
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Remind me, what caused the Luton airport car park fire?
>>>>>
>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>
>>>>> According to the Fire Service, it was caused by a diesel engined
>>>>> vehicle.
>>>>>
>>>> with a lithium hybrid battery...
>>>
>>> That is not mentioned
>>>
>> Precisely
>
> precisely what?
>
They conveniently omitted to mention the lithium battery
--
"Anyone who believes that the laws of physics are mere social
conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the
windows of my apartment. (I live on the twenty-first floor.) "

Alan Sokal

In article <v15e58$177lf$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 04/05/2024 14:30, charles wrote:
> > In article <v155jp$168as$1@dont-email.me>,
> > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >> On 03/05/2024 23:30, charles wrote:
> >>> In article <v13ig4$o4dl$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
> >>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >>>> On 03/05/2024 20:08, charles wrote:
> >>>>> In article
> >>>>> <1613230813.736453121.482121.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net>,
> >>>>> Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
> >>>>>> Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c90zjne2v0jo
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Remind me, what caused the Luton airport car park fire?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Tim
> >>>>>
> >>>>> According to the Fire Service, it was caused by a diesel engined
> >>>>> vehicle.
> >>>>>
> >>>> with a lithium hybrid battery...
> >>>
> >>> That is not mentioned
> >>>
> >> Precisely
> >
> > precisely what?
> >
> They conveniently omitted to mention the lithium battery

whyn would a diesel-engined car have a lithium battery? Unless it was being
carried from A to B.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:

> In article <v15e58$177lf$1@dont-email.me>,
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > On 04/05/2024 14:30, charles wrote:
> > > In article <v155jp$168as$1@dont-email.me>,
> > > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > > > On 03/05/2024 23:30, charles wrote:
> > > > > In article <v13ig4$o4dl$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
> > > > > <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > > > > > On 03/05/2024 20:08, charles wrote:
> > > > > > > In article
> > > > > > >
<1613230813.736453121.482121.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net>,
> > >>>>> Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c90zjne2v0jo
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > Remind me, what caused the Luton airport car park fire?
> > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > Tim
> > >>>>>
> > > > > > > According to the Fire Service, it was caused by a diesel
> > > > > > > engined vehicle.
> > >>>>>
> > > > > > with a lithium hybrid battery...
> > >>>
> > > > > That is not mentioned
> > >>>
> > > > Precisely
> > >
> > > precisely what?
> > >
> > They conveniently omitted to mention the lithium battery
>
> whyn would a diesel-engined car have a lithium battery? Unless it was
> being carried from A to B.
>
There is a diesel mild hybrid rangerover. 1922 onwards. only £102,000!

Not saying it was one of those.

--
braind

In article <mpro.scyz4q001yqwq05mg.me9@privacy.net>,
me9 <me9@privacy.net> wrote:
> charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:

> > In article <v15e58$177lf$1@dont-email.me>,
> > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > > On 04/05/2024 14:30, charles wrote:
> > > > In article <v155jp$168as$1@dont-email.me>,
> > > > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > > > > On 03/05/2024 23:30, charles wrote:
> > > > > > In article <v13ig4$o4dl$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
> > > > > > <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > > > > > > On 03/05/2024 20:08, charles wrote:
> > > > > > > > In article
> > > > > > > >
> <1613230813.736453121.482121.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net>,
> > > >>>>> Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c90zjne2v0jo
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > Remind me, what caused the Luton airport car park fire?
> > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > Tim
> > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > According to the Fire Service, it was caused by a diesel
> > > > > > > > engined vehicle.
> > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > with a lithium hybrid battery...
> > > >>>
> > > > > > That is not mentioned
> > > >>>
> > > > > Precisely
> > > >
> > > > precisely what?
> > > >
> > > They conveniently omitted to mention the lithium battery
> >
> > whyn would a diesel-engined car have a lithium battery? Unless it was
> > being carried from A to B.
> >
> There is a diesel mild hybrid rangerover. 1922 onwards. only £102,000!

100 years out, but I guess when you mean.

> Not saying it was one of those.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 04/05/2024 16:30, charles wrote:
> In article <v15e58$177lf$1@dont-email.me>,
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 04/05/2024 14:30, charles wrote:
>>> In article <v155jp$168as$1@dont-email.me>,
>>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 03/05/2024 23:30, charles wrote:
>>>>> In article <v13ig4$o4dl$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
>>>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On 03/05/2024 20:08, charles wrote:
>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>> <1613230813.736453121.482121.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net>,
>>>>>>> Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c90zjne2v0jo
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Remind me, what caused the Luton airport car park fire?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> According to the Fire Service, it was caused by a diesel engined
>>>>>>> vehicle.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> with a lithium hybrid battery...
>>>>>
>>>>> That is not mentioned
>>>>>
>>>> Precisely
>>>
>>> precisely what?
>>>
>> They conveniently omitted to mention the lithium battery
>
> whyn would a diesel-engined car have a lithium battery? Unless it was being
> carried from A to B.
>
When its a hybrid

--
“A leader is best When people barely know he exists. Of a good leader,
who talks little,When his work is done, his aim fulfilled,They will say,
“We did this ourselves.”

― Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:

> In article <mpro.scyz4q001yqwq05mg.me9@privacy.net>,
> me9 <me9@privacy.net> wrote:
> > charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
>
> > > In article <v15e58$177lf$1@dont-email.me>,
> > > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > > > On 04/05/2024 14:30, charles wrote:
> > > > > In article <v155jp$168as$1@dont-email.me>,
> > > > > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > > > > > On 03/05/2024 23:30, charles wrote:
> > > > > > > In article <v13ig4$o4dl$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural
> > > > > > > Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On 03/05/2024 20:08, charles wrote:
> > > > > > > > > In article
> > > > > > > > >
> >
<1613230813.736453121.482121.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net>,
> > > > >>>>> Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c90zjne2v0jo
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > Remind me, what caused the Luton airport car park fire?
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > Tim
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > According to the Fire Service, it was caused by a diesel
> > > > > > > > > engined vehicle.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > with a lithium hybrid battery...
> > > > >>>
> > > > > > > That is not mentioned
> > > > >>>
> > > > > > Precisely
> > > > >
> > > > > precisely what?
> > > > >
> > > > They conveniently omitted to mention the lithium battery
> > >
> > > whyn would a diesel-engined car have a lithium battery? Unless it was
> > > being carried from A to B.
> > >
> > There is a diesel mild hybrid rangerover. 1922 onwards. only £102,000!
>
> 100 years out, but I guess when you mean.
>
> > Not saying it was one of those.
>
2022, I can't get used to this century!

--
braind

In article <v15pu1$1acmn$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 04/05/2024 16:30, charles wrote:
> > In article <v15e58$177lf$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
> > <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >> On 04/05/2024 14:30, charles wrote:
> >>> In article <v155jp$168as$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
> >>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >>>> On 03/05/2024 23:30, charles wrote:
> >>>>> In article <v13ig4$o4dl$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
> >>>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >>>>>> On 03/05/2024 20:08, charles wrote:
> >>>>>>> In article
> >>>>>>> <1613230813.736453121.482121.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net>,
> >>>>>>> Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c90zjne2v0jo
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Remind me, what caused the Luton airport car park fire?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Tim
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> According to the Fire Service, it was caused by a diesel engined
> >>>>>>> vehicle.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> with a lithium hybrid battery...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That is not mentioned
> >>>>>
> >>>> Precisely
> >>>
> >>> precisely what?
> >>>
> >> They conveniently omitted to mention the lithium battery
> >
> > whyn would a diesel-engined car have a lithium battery? Unless it was
> > being carried from A to B.
> >
> When its a hybrid

If it was a hybrid, the Fire Service would have said so. Calling it a
diesel not a diesel-Hybrid would have been somewhat inaccurate.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 04/05/2024 18:30, charles wrote:
> In article <v15pu1$1acmn$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 04/05/2024 16:30, charles wrote:
>>> In article <v15e58$177lf$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 04/05/2024 14:30, charles wrote:
>>>>> In article <v155jp$168as$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
>>>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On 03/05/2024 23:30, charles wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <v13ig4$o4dl$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
>>>>>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 03/05/2024 20:08, charles wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>>>> <1613230813.736453121.482121.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net>,
>>>>>>>>> Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c90zjne2v0jo
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Remind me, what caused the Luton airport car park fire?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> According to the Fire Service, it was caused by a diesel engined
>>>>>>>>> vehicle.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> with a lithium hybrid battery...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is not mentioned
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Precisely
>>>>>
>>>>> precisely what?
>>>>>
>>>> They conveniently omitted to mention the lithium battery
>>>
>>> whyn would a diesel-engined car have a lithium battery? Unless it was
>>> being carried from A to B.
>>>
>> When its a hybrid
>
> If it was a hybrid, the Fire Service would have said so. Calling it a
> diesel not a diesel-Hybrid would have been somewhat inaccurate.
>
Exactly
--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
> In article <v15pu1$1acmn$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 04/05/2024 16:30, charles wrote:
>>> In article <v15e58$177lf$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 04/05/2024 14:30, charles wrote:
>>>>> In article <v155jp$168as$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
>>>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On 03/05/2024 23:30, charles wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <v13ig4$o4dl$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
>>>>>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 03/05/2024 20:08, charles wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>>>> <1613230813.736453121.482121.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net>,
>>>>>>>>> Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c90zjne2v0jo
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Remind me, what caused the Luton airport car park fire?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> According to the Fire Service, it was caused by a diesel engined
>>>>>>>>> vehicle.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> with a lithium hybrid battery...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is not mentioned
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Precisely
>>>>>
>>>>> precisely what?
>>>>>
>>>> They conveniently omitted to mention the lithium battery
>>>
>>> whyn would a diesel-engined car have a lithium battery? Unless it was
>>> being carried from A to B.

>> When its a hybrid

> If it was a hybrid, the Fire Service would have said so. Calling it a
> diesel not a diesel-Hybrid would have been somewhat inaccurate.
I haven’t read the FB report, but from the few quotes from it that I’ve
seen, there appears to have been some very careful form of words used.

--
Spike

On 2024-05-04 19:09, Spike wrote:
> charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
>> In article <v15pu1$1acmn$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 04/05/2024 16:30, charles wrote:
>>>> In article <v15e58$177lf$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
>>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On 04/05/2024 14:30, charles wrote:
>>>>>> In article <v155jp$168as$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
>>>>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 03/05/2024 23:30, charles wrote:
>>>>>>>> In article <v13ig4$o4dl$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
>>>>>>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 03/05/2024 20:08, charles wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>>>>> <1613230813.736453121.482121.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net>,
>>>>>>>>>> Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c90zjne2v0jo
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Remind me, what caused the Luton airport car park fire?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> According to the Fire Service, it was caused by a diesel engined
>>>>>>>>>> vehicle.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> with a lithium hybrid battery...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That is not mentioned
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Precisely
>>>>>>
>>>>>> precisely what?
>>>>>>
>>>>> They conveniently omitted to mention the lithium battery
>>>>
>>>> whyn would a diesel-engined car have a lithium battery? Unless it was
>>>> being carried from A to B.
>
>>> When its a hybrid
>
>> If it was a hybrid, the Fire Service would have said so. Calling it a
>> diesel not a diesel-Hybrid would have been somewhat inaccurate.
>
> I haven’t read the FB report, but from the few quotes from it that I’ve
> seen, there appears to have been some very careful form of words used.
>

Yes, the Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue Service were very careful with
their words:

"The vehicle involved was diesel-powered – it was not a mild hybrid,
plug-in hybrid or electric vehicle."

nib

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

>>>>>>> Remind me, what caused the Luton airport car park fire?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> According to the Fire Service, it was caused by a diesel engined
>>>>>> vehicle.
>>>>>>
>>>>> with a lithium hybrid battery...
>>>>
>>>> That is not mentioned
>>>
>>> Precisely
>>
>> precisely what?
>
> They conveniently omitted to mention the lithium battery

They specifically stated it's not a BEV, not a PHEV, not a MHEV.

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>>>>>>>> Remind me, what caused the Luton airport car park fire?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> According to the Fire Service, it was caused by a diesel engined
>>>>>>> vehicle.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> with a lithium hybrid battery...
>>>>>
>>>>> That is not mentioned
>>>>
>>>> Precisely
>>>
>>> precisely what?
>>
>> They conveniently omitted to mention the lithium battery
>
> They specifically stated it's not a BEV, not a PHEV, not a MHEV.
>

You can’t argue with a conspiracy theorist. Save your breath/fingers.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 04/05/2024 20:19, nib wrote:
> On 2024-05-04 19:09, Spike wrote:
>> charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
>>> In article <v15pu1$1acmn$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 04/05/2024 16:30, charles wrote:
>>>>> In article <v15e58$177lf$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
>>>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On 04/05/2024 14:30, charles wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <v155jp$168as$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
>>>>>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 03/05/2024 23:30, charles wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In article <v13ig4$o4dl$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
>>>>>>>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 03/05/2024 20:08, charles wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>>>>>> <1613230813.736453121.482121.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net>,
>>>>>>>>>>> Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c90zjne2v0jo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Remind me, what caused the Luton airport car park fire?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> According to the Fire Service, it was caused by a diesel engined
>>>>>>>>>>> vehicle.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> with a lithium hybrid battery...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That is not mentioned
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Precisely
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> precisely what?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> They conveniently omitted to mention the lithium battery
>>>>>
>>>>> whyn would a diesel-engined car have a lithium battery? Unless it was
>>>>> being carried from A to B.
>>
>>>> When its a hybrid
>>
>>> If it was a hybrid, the Fire Service would have said so.  Calling it a
>>> diesel not a diesel-Hybrid would have been somewhat inaccurate.
>> I haven’t read the FB report, but from the few quotes from it that I’ve
>> seen, there appears to have been some very careful form of words used.
>>
>
> Yes, the Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue Service were very careful with
> their words:
>
> "The vehicle involved was diesel-powered – it was not a mild hybrid,
> plug-in hybrid or electric vehicle."

It's amazing how some conspiracy theorists simple can't accept facts.
They seem to think the more they lies they tell, the more others will
believe them.

In reality they shown themselves as idiots lacking any form of
foresight. It also discredits those rare occasions when they might utter
something useful.