Helldivers 2 was looking like a pretty good squad Co-op game, I was
somewhat interested, but so many things to play, not enough time. It
won't affect me if I were to play it, but there's regions where it was
sold that the PSN isn't available.

*********************************************************

From "The Verge":

Attention, Democracy Defenders: Helldivers 2 will soon require players
on Steam to link their account to a PlayStation Network account.
According to the announcement, all new players on Steam will be required
to link to a PSN account starting May 6th, while current players will
have a little bit longer, with mandatory enforcement delayed until June 4th.

According to Helldivers 2 developer Arrowhead Game Studios, linking to a
PSN account was always going to be a requirement for Steam players, and
the policy is there to ensure players are protected from griefing and
other in-game abuses. But the game’s community isn’t buying it,
vociferously protesting the decision on social media and on Steam itself.

Shortly after the announcement, the game saw a flood of negative
reviews, receiving over 14,000 negative reviews today alone on Steam.

Though PSN accounts are free and quick to make, players do have reason
to be upset. PSN isn’t available everywhere, and this move could
potentially lock players in certain countries out of their game
permanently. Players have also expressed concern about the security of
their data. Sony recently suffered a data breach, though the information
stolen was connected to employees and not customers.

*********************************************************

From Sony:

HELLDIVERS™ 2 Account Linking Update
Attention Helldivers,

Due to technical issues at the launch of HELLDIVERS™ 2, we allowed the
linking requirements for Steam accounts to a PlayStation Network account
to be temporarily optional. That grace period will now expire. See
details below in this post.

Account linking plays a critical role in protecting our players and
upholding the values of safety and security provided on PlayStation and
PlayStation Studios games. This is our main way to protect players from
griefing and abuse by enabling the banning of players that engage in
that type of behaviour. It also allows those players that have been
banned the right to appeal.

As such, as of May 6th, all new HELLDIVERS 2 players on Steam will be
required to connect their Steam account to a PlayStation Network
account. Current players on Steam will start to see the mandatory login
from May 30th and will be required to have linked a Steam and
PlayStation Network account by June 4th. PlayStation Network accounts
are free and easy to set up using this link
https://www.playstation.com/support/account/create-account-for-psn/

We understand that while this may be an inconvenience to some of you,
this step will help us to continue to build a community that you are all
proud to be a part of.

Many thanks for your continued support of HELLDIVERS 2!

Sony Interactive Entertainment

*********************************************************

--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
(\_/)\
`-'\ `--.___,
¶¬'\( ,_.-'
\\
^'

On 5/3/2024 11:43 AM, Justisaur wrote:
> Helldivers 2 was looking like a pretty good squad Co-op game, I was
> somewhat interested, but so many things to play, not enough time.  It
> won't affect me if I were to play it, but there's regions where it was
> sold that the PSN isn't available.
>
> *********************************************************
>
> From "The Verge":
>
> Attention, Democracy Defenders: Helldivers 2 will soon require players
> on Steam to link their account to a PlayStation Network account.
> According to the announcement, all new players on Steam will be required
> to link to a PSN account starting May 6th, while current players will
> have a little bit longer, with mandatory enforcement delayed until June
> 4th.
>
> According to Helldivers 2 developer Arrowhead Game Studios, linking to a
> PSN account was always going to be a requirement for Steam players, and
> the policy is there to ensure players are protected from griefing and
> other in-game abuses. But the game’s community isn’t buying it,
> vociferously protesting the decision on social media and on Steam itself.
>
> Shortly after the announcement, the game saw a flood of negative
> reviews, receiving over 14,000 negative reviews today alone on Steam.
>
> Though PSN accounts are free and quick to make, players do have reason
> to be upset. PSN isn’t available everywhere, and this move could
> potentially lock players in certain countries out of their game
> permanently. Players have also expressed concern about the security of
> their data. Sony recently suffered a data breach, though the information
> stolen was connected to employees and not customers.
>
Hell, even if their data was secure why would I want THEM to have it in
the first place?

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 5/3/2024 1:38 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Fri, 3 May 2024 11:43:45 -0700, Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Helldivers 2 was looking like a pretty good squad Co-op game, I was
>> somewhat interested, but so many things to play, not enough time. It
>> won't affect me if I were to play it, but there's regions where it was
>> sold that the PSN isn't available.
>
> <snip>
>
>> Account linking plays a critical role in protecting our players and
>> upholding the values of safety and security provided on PlayStation and
>> PlayStation Studios games. This is our main way to protect players from
>> griefing and abuse by enabling the banning of players that engage in
>> that type of behaviour. It also allows those players that have been
>> banned the right to appeal.
>
> Here's the stuff Sony left unsaid:
>
> "More importantly, onboarding people into a new service
> is possibly the hardest step of getting new customers. Even
> if it's free, there is a huge amount of inertia to overcome
> getting people to sign up. By tying our newest, most popular
> game to the service, we force people to choose between
> quitting the game, or signing up. We're fairly sure that
> most people will choose the latter rather than give up a
> product they enjoy and already paid for.
>
> "And once their subscribed to PSN, the likelihood of their
> buying further products through the service - magnitudely
> increases. We feel this more than outweighs any downsides,
> such as losing the few customers who don't want to sign up,
> or any ill will earned by this move.
>
> "The stuff about the 'protecting the player'? That's all
> secondary to this move. Sure, it helps with that, maybe.
> It doesn't really matter. Heck, by putting everyone under
> our service's aegis, it even help us better comply with
> various laws around the world dealing with privacy and /
> or moderation laws. We might even make a bit of a profit
> from collecting and reselling your data! But, really, none
> of that stuff is the important bit. What we really want
> is to finally get you onto PSN, because that's how we're
> gonna make the real money. After all, it worked for Valve
> with Half-Life 2 and Steam; it worked for Epic with Fortnite
> and their Epic Game Store. So why shouldn't it work with us?"
>

Yes of course. Sony's quite known for their lack of care about their
customers at least since their 2005 rootkit scandal.

--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
(\_/)\
`-'\ `--.___,
¶¬'\( ,_.-'
\\
^'

On Fri, 3 May 2024 11:43:45 -0700, Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Helldivers 2 was looking like a pretty good squad Co-op game, I was
>somewhat interested, but so many things to play, not enough time. It
>won't affect me if I were to play it, but there's regions where it was
>sold that the PSN isn't available.

<snip>

>Account linking plays a critical role in protecting our players and
>upholding the values of safety and security provided on PlayStation and
>PlayStation Studios games. This is our main way to protect players from
>griefing and abuse by enabling the banning of players that engage in
>that type of behaviour. It also allows those players that have been
>banned the right to appeal.

Here's the stuff Sony left unsaid:

"More importantly, onboarding people into a new service
is possibly the hardest step of getting new customers. Even
if it's free, there is a huge amount of inertia to overcome
getting people to sign up. By tying our newest, most popular
game to the service, we force people to choose between
quitting the game, or signing up. We're fairly sure that
most people will choose the latter rather than give up a
product they enjoy and already paid for.

"And once their subscribed to PSN, the likelihood of their
buying further products through the service - magnitudely
increases. We feel this more than outweighs any downsides,
such as losing the few customers who don't want to sign up,
or any ill will earned by this move.

"The stuff about the 'protecting the player'? That's all
secondary to this move. Sure, it helps with that, maybe.
It doesn't really matter. Heck, by putting everyone under
our service's aegis, it even help us better comply with
various laws around the world dealing with privacy and /
or moderation laws. We might even make a bit of a profit
from collecting and reselling your data! But, really, none
of that stuff is the important bit. What we really want
is to finally get you onto PSN, because that's how we're
gonna make the real money. After all, it worked for Valve
with Half-Life 2 and Steam; it worked for Epic with Fortnite
and their Epic Game Store. So why shouldn't it work with us?"

On 03/05/2024 19:43, Justisaur wrote:
> Helldivers 2 was looking like a pretty good squad Co-op game, I was
> somewhat interested, but so many things to play, not enough time.  It
> won't affect me if I were to play it, but there's regions where it was
> sold that the PSN isn't available.

The part I don't like about it is it being done respectively*, so not
giving customers the option to choose before they decided to buy it.
That's just a bit scummy.

*My understanding is that's technically not true but the statement
saying this was going to happen wasn't made particularly clear upfront.

On Fri, 3 May 2024 15:32:08 -0700, Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>
>Yes of course. Sony's quite known for their lack of care about their
>customers at least since their 2005 rootkit scandal.

Let's not forget when the Playstation Network got hacked and all the
user data was stolen. But I'm sure they've beefed up their security,
and there's no WAY that could EVER happen again, right?

Are those crickets?

On Sat, 4 May 2024 09:09:18 +0100, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:

>On 03/05/2024 19:43, Justisaur wrote:
>> Helldivers 2 was looking like a pretty good squad Co-op game, I was
>> somewhat interested, but so many things to play, not enough time.  It
>> won't affect me if I were to play it, but there's regions where it was
>> sold that the PSN isn't available.
>
>The part I don't like about it is it being done respectively*, so not
>giving customers the option to choose before they decided to buy it.
>That's just a bit scummy.

>*My understanding is that's technically not true but the statement
>saying this was going to happen wasn't made particularly clear upfront.

I assume you mean retroactively. There's no respect here from Sony.

They saw their game was popular, and decided to try and leverage that
popularity into getting their network a bigger marketshare. It's all
about what is good for Sony; it has nothing to do with benefitting the
customers.

I'd love it if Valve started offering all Helldiver 2 players the
ability to return/refund the game, no matter how long it has been
since they purchased it, since this seems a fairly significant change
to the requirements box.

On 5/4/2024 6:31 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Fri, 3 May 2024 15:32:08 -0700, Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Yes of course. Sony's quite known for their lack of care about their
>> customers at least since their 2005 rootkit scandal.
>
> Let's not forget when the Playstation Network got hacked and all the
> user data was stolen. But I'm sure they've beefed up their security,
> and there's no WAY that could EVER happen again, right?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Are those crickets?
>
>
No. Even the crickets are staying far away from this.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 5/3/2024 11:43 AM, Justisaur wrote:
> Helldivers 2 was looking like a pretty good squad Co-op game, I was
> somewhat interested, but so many things to play, not enough time.  It
> won't affect me if I were to play it, but there's regions where it was
> sold that the PSN isn't available.

***** UPDATE! SONY GASLIGHTS CUSTOMERS! *****

Sony and Arrowhead (the dev) were saying that the fact it wasn't
required was due to a 'server issue' and it was communicated that it was
a temporary thing. However screenshots of the requirements from other
countries where PSN isn't available show it says that PSN is "optional."
Presumably they haven't updated all their requirements for all the
foreign pages yet.

They've been caught in a bold faced lie and gaslighting. The review
bombing has greatly increased after this was found and now Helldivers 2
has been dragged down to 'mixed' for all time reviews. I'm not sure if
this will have any real legal repercussions due to the usual "subject to
change at any time" clauses present everywhere, and Japan's corrupt
legal system's favoritism.

--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
(\_/)\
`-'\ `--.___,
¶¬'\( ,_.-'
\\
^'

Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> Yes of course. Sony's quite known for their lack of care about their
> >> customers at least since their 2005 rootkit scandal.
> >
> > Let's not forget when the Playstation Network got hacked and all the
> > user data was stolen. But I'm sure they've beefed up their security,
> > and there's no WAY that could EVER happen again, right?
> >
> > Are those crickets?
> >
> No. Even the crickets are staying far away from this.

And ants. :P
--
"[The Lord's Messiah] will stand and shepherd his flock in the strength of the Lord, in the majesty of the name of the Lord his God. And they will live securely, for then his greatness will reach to the ends of the earth. And he will be their peace." --Micah 5:4. May da 4th, 5th, & 6th B with U as always!
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com> wrote at 16:19 this Saturday (GMT):
> On 5/3/2024 11:43 AM, Justisaur wrote:
>> Helldivers 2 was looking like a pretty good squad Co-op game, I was
>> somewhat interested, but so many things to play, not enough time.  It
>> won't affect me if I were to play it, but there's regions where it was
>> sold that the PSN isn't available.
>
> ***** UPDATE! SONY GASLIGHTS CUSTOMERS! *****
>
> Sony and Arrowhead (the dev) were saying that the fact it wasn't
> required was due to a 'server issue' and it was communicated that it was
> a temporary thing. However screenshots of the requirements from other
> countries where PSN isn't available show it says that PSN is "optional."
> Presumably they haven't updated all their requirements for all the
> foreign pages yet.
>
> They've been caught in a bold faced lie and gaslighting. The review
> bombing has greatly increased after this was found and now Helldivers 2
> has been dragged down to 'mixed' for all time reviews. I'm not sure if
> this will have any real legal repercussions due to the usual "subject to
> change at any time" clauses present everywhere, and Japan's corrupt
> legal system's favoritism.

I wonder if they'll hit "Overwhelmingly negative" at some point.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote at 19:41 this Saturday (GMT):
> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Yes of course. Sony's quite known for their lack of care about their
>> >> customers at least since their 2005 rootkit scandal.
>> >
>> > Let's not forget when the Playstation Network got hacked and all the
>> > user data was stolen. But I'm sure they've beefed up their security,
>> > and there's no WAY that could EVER happen again, right?
>> >
>> > Are those crickets?
>> >
>> No. Even the crickets are staying far away from this.
>
> And ants. :P

And me. (bc i dont have a playstation :D)
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 04/05/2024 14:34, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Sat, 4 May 2024 09:09:18 +0100, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
>
>> On 03/05/2024 19:43, Justisaur wrote:
>>> Helldivers 2 was looking like a pretty good squad Co-op game, I was
>>> somewhat interested, but so many things to play, not enough time.  It
>>> won't affect me if I were to play it, but there's regions where it was
>>> sold that the PSN isn't available.
>>
>> The part I don't like about it is it being done respectively*, so not
>> giving customers the option to choose before they decided to buy it.
>> That's just a bit scummy.
>
>> *My understanding is that's technically not true but the statement
>> saying this was going to happen wasn't made particularly clear upfront.
>
>
> I assume you mean retroactively. There's no respect here from Sony.
>
Yep.

> They saw their game was popular, and decided to try and leverage that
> popularity into getting their network a bigger marketshare. It's all
> about what is good for Sony; it has nothing to do with benefitting the
> customers.
>
It certainly feels that they were always going to do it but didn't want
to at launch in case of any lost sales. That is a bit scummy because if
the reasoning they are using as to why it's being activated now is true
then why didn't they have it a launch.

> I'd love it if Valve started offering all Helldiver 2 players the
> ability to return/refund the game, no matter how long it has been
> since they purchased it, since this seems a fairly significant change
> to the requirements box.
>
Tricky one as it's still fit for purpose (as long as you can continue to
play it in your region) just not quite what a buyer may have wanted. If
it was me, I'd be really peeded off as I try and avoid any additional
game launchers. That's why I still haven't got anything from the Epic
store, oh and who owns it doesn't help. It's not fair you have a
monopoly as I want it.

On Sat, 4 May 2024 09:19:16 -0700, Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>On 5/3/2024 11:43 AM, Justisaur wrote:
>> Helldivers 2 was looking like a pretty good squad Co-op game, I was
>> somewhat interested, but so many things to play, not enough time.  It
>> won't affect me if I were to play it, but there's regions where it was
>> sold that the PSN isn't available.
>
>***** UPDATE! SONY GASLIGHTS CUSTOMERS! *****
>
>Sony and Arrowhead (the dev) were saying that the fact it wasn't
>required was due to a 'server issue' and it was communicated that it was
>a temporary thing. However screenshots of the requirements from other
>countries where PSN isn't available show it says that PSN is "optional."
> Presumably they haven't updated all their requirements for all the
>foreign pages yet.
>
>They've been caught in a bold faced lie and gaslighting. The review
>bombing has greatly increased after this was found and now Helldivers 2
>has been dragged down to 'mixed' for all time reviews. I'm not sure if
>this will have any real legal repercussions due to the usual "subject to
>change at any time" clauses present everywhere, and Japan's corrupt
>legal system's favoritism.

Update to the Update!!!!

Helldivers 2 has been delisted from Steam in 177 territories*, and -
according to reports - Steam is offering refunds on the game far past
it's usual 2-hour limit.

* read here:
https://www.pcgamesn.com/helldivers-2/steam-delisting

I'd love to believe this is Valve taking the side of the end-user, but
more likely it is more a response against Sony trying to push gamers
towards its competing PSN network. Sony wants to onboard people on
PSN, because once they have an account there, they are far, far, FAR
more likely to make future purchases on that network. Valve,
obviously, doesn't want this. They don't want people to even be aware
of the competition. They want all purchases to be through Steam.

This isn't Valve being on the side of gamers. It's a warning shot to
Sony.

On 5/5/2024 8:20 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Sat, 4 May 2024 09:19:16 -0700, Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 5/3/2024 11:43 AM, Justisaur wrote:
>>> Helldivers 2 was looking like a pretty good squad Co-op game, I was
>>> somewhat interested, but so many things to play, not enough time.  It
>>> won't affect me if I were to play it, but there's regions where it was
>>> sold that the PSN isn't available.
>>
>> ***** UPDATE! SONY GASLIGHTS CUSTOMERS! *****
>>
>> Sony and Arrowhead (the dev) were saying that the fact it wasn't
>> required was due to a 'server issue' and it was communicated that it was
>> a temporary thing. However screenshots of the requirements from other
>> countries where PSN isn't available show it says that PSN is "optional."
>> Presumably they haven't updated all their requirements for all the
>> foreign pages yet.
>>
>> They've been caught in a bold faced lie and gaslighting. The review
>> bombing has greatly increased after this was found and now Helldivers 2
>> has been dragged down to 'mixed' for all time reviews. I'm not sure if
>> this will have any real legal repercussions due to the usual "subject to
>> change at any time" clauses present everywhere, and Japan's corrupt
>> legal system's favoritism.
>
> Update to the Update!!!!
>
> Helldivers 2 has been delisted from Steam in 177 territories*, and -
> according to reports - Steam is offering refunds on the game far past
> it's usual 2-hour limit.

Nice to hear they got off their duffs and did something.

> * read here:
> https://www.pcgamesn.com/helldivers-2/steam-delisting
>
> I'd love to believe this is Valve taking the side of the end-user, but
> more likely it is more a response against Sony trying to push gamers
> towards its competing PSN network. Sony wants to onboard people on
> PSN, because once they have an account there, they are far, far, FAR
> more likely to make future purchases on that network. Valve,
> obviously, doesn't want this. They don't want people to even be aware
> of the competition. They want all purchases to be through Steam.
>
> This isn't Valve being on the side of gamers. It's a warning shot to
> Sony.

It's nice when a market owner's self interest and consumer interest align.

They don't seem to have any problem with tons of other companies
requiring a separate account. I'd guess it's more about protecting their
ass on the bait and switch, Sony may be able to get away with that being
a Japanese company, but Steam is in the US.

Still good on them.

--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
(\_/)\
`-'\ `--.___,
¶¬'\( ,_.-'
\\
^'

Am 05.05.24 um 18:10 schrieb Justisaur:

> They don't seem to have any problem with tons of other companies
> requiring a separate account. I'd guess it's more about protecting their
> ass on the bait and switch, Sony may be able to get away with that being
> a Japanese company, but Steam is in the US.
>
> Still good on them.
>
Frankly spoken, PSN unless you have a playstation where it really makes
sense, to get one of the higher tiers, is absolutele worthless for PC
gaming only. If sony wants to push people towards psn, they should try
differently...

On 5/5/2024 8:20 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Sat, 4 May 2024 09:19:16 -0700, Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 5/3/2024 11:43 AM, Justisaur wrote:
>>> Helldivers 2 was looking like a pretty good squad Co-op game, I was
>>> somewhat interested, but so many things to play, not enough time.  It
>>> won't affect me if I were to play it, but there's regions where it was
>>> sold that the PSN isn't available.
>>
>> ***** UPDATE! SONY GASLIGHTS CUSTOMERS! *****
>>
>> Sony and Arrowhead (the dev) were saying that the fact it wasn't
>> required was due to a 'server issue' and it was communicated that it was
>> a temporary thing. However screenshots of the requirements from other
>> countries where PSN isn't available show it says that PSN is "optional."
>> Presumably they haven't updated all their requirements for all the
>> foreign pages yet.
>>
>> They've been caught in a bold faced lie and gaslighting. The review
>> bombing has greatly increased after this was found and now Helldivers 2
>> has been dragged down to 'mixed' for all time reviews. I'm not sure if
>> this will have any real legal repercussions due to the usual "subject to
>> change at any time" clauses present everywhere, and Japan's corrupt
>> legal system's favoritism.
>
> Update to the Update!!!!
>
> Helldivers 2 has been delisted from Steam in 177 territories*, and -
> according to reports - Steam is offering refunds on the game far past
> it's usual 2-hour limit.
>
> * read here:
> https://www.pcgamesn.com/helldivers-2/steam-delisting
>
> I'd love to believe this is Valve taking the side of the end-user, but
> more likely it is more a response against Sony trying to push gamers
> towards its competing PSN network. Sony wants to onboard people on
> PSN, because once they have an account there, they are far, far, FAR
> more likely to make future purchases on that network. Valve,
> obviously, doesn't want this. They don't want people to even be aware
> of the competition. They want all purchases to be through Steam.
>
> This isn't Valve being on the side of gamers. It's a warning shot to
> Sony.
>

Update the Third!!!!

Sony has removed the requirement for those playing on playstation that
are outside of PSN countries (which no one seemed to realize what even a
thing.) They're working on what to do with PC/Steam whatever that means.

--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
(\_/)\
`-'\ `--.___,
¶¬'\( ,_.-'
\\
^'

On 5/6/2024 9:18 AM, Justisaur wrote:
> On 5/5/2024 8:20 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>> On Sat, 4 May 2024 09:19:16 -0700, Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/3/2024 11:43 AM, Justisaur wrote:
>>>> Helldivers 2 was looking like a pretty good squad Co-op game, I was
>>>> somewhat interested, but so many things to play, not enough time.  It
>>>> won't affect me if I were to play it, but there's regions where it was
>>>> sold that the PSN isn't available.
>>>
>>> ***** UPDATE! SONY GASLIGHTS CUSTOMERS! *****
>>>
>>> Sony and Arrowhead (the dev) were saying that the fact it wasn't
>>> required was due to a 'server issue' and it was communicated that it was
>>> a temporary thing.  However screenshots of the requirements from other
>>> countries where PSN isn't available show it says that PSN is "optional."
>>>   Presumably they haven't updated all their requirements for all the
>>> foreign pages yet.
>>>
>>> They've been caught in a bold faced lie and gaslighting.  The review
>>> bombing has greatly increased after this was found and now Helldivers 2
>>> has been dragged down to 'mixed' for all time reviews.  I'm not sure if
>>> this will have any real legal repercussions due to the usual "subject to
>>> change at any time" clauses present everywhere, and Japan's corrupt
>>> legal system's favoritism.
>>
>> Update to the Update!!!!
>>
>> Helldivers 2 has been delisted from Steam in 177 territories*, and -
>> according to reports - Steam is offering refunds on the game far past
>> it's usual 2-hour limit.
>>
>> * read here:
>> https://www.pcgamesn.com/helldivers-2/steam-delisting
>>
>> I'd love to believe this is Valve taking the side of the end-user, but
>> more likely it is more a response against Sony trying to push gamers
>> towards its competing PSN network. Sony wants to onboard people on
>> PSN, because once they have an account there, they are far, far, FAR
>> more likely to make future purchases on that network. Valve,
>> obviously, doesn't want this. They don't want people to even be aware
>> of the competition. They want all purchases to be through Steam.
>>
>> This isn't Valve being on the side of gamers. It's a warning shot to
>> Sony.
>>
>
> Update the Third!!!!
>
> Sony has removed the requirement for those playing on playstation that
> are outside of PSN countries (which no one seemed to realize what even a
> thing.)  They're working on what to do with PC/Steam whatever that means.
>

Apperantly I completely misread that, they are dropping the requirement
for the Steam PSN requrement. I got confused about the bit where
they're still learning what's best for PC. Here's their announcement:

"Helldivers fans -- we’ve heard your feedback on the Helldivers 2
account linking update. The May 6 update, which would have required
Steam and PlayStation Network account linking for new players and for
current players beginning May 30, will not be moving forward.

We’re still learning what is best for PC players and your feedback has
been invaluable. Thanks again for your continued support of Helldivers 2
and we’ll keep you updated on future plans."

--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
(\_/)\
`-'\ `--.___,
¶¬'\( ,_.-'
\\
^'

On Mon, 6 May 2024 09:18:16 -0700, Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>On 5/5/2024 8:20 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>> On Sat, 4 May 2024 09:19:16 -0700, Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/3/2024 11:43 AM, Justisaur wrote:
>>>> Helldivers 2 was looking like a pretty good squad Co-op game, I was
>>>> somewhat interested, but so many things to play, not enough time.  It
>>>> won't affect me if I were to play it, but there's regions where it was
>>>> sold that the PSN isn't available.
>>>
>>> ***** UPDATE! SONY GASLIGHTS CUSTOMERS! *****
>>>
>>> Sony and Arrowhead (the dev) were saying that the fact it wasn't
>>> required was due to a 'server issue' and it was communicated that it was
>>> a temporary thing. However screenshots of the requirements from other
>>> countries where PSN isn't available show it says that PSN is "optional."
>>> Presumably they haven't updated all their requirements for all the
>>> foreign pages yet.
>>>
>>> They've been caught in a bold faced lie and gaslighting. The review
>>> bombing has greatly increased after this was found and now Helldivers 2
>>> has been dragged down to 'mixed' for all time reviews. I'm not sure if
>>> this will have any real legal repercussions due to the usual "subject to
>>> change at any time" clauses present everywhere, and Japan's corrupt
>>> legal system's favoritism.
>>
>> Update to the Update!!!!
>>
>> Helldivers 2 has been delisted from Steam in 177 territories*, and -
>> according to reports - Steam is offering refunds on the game far past
>> it's usual 2-hour limit.
>>
>> * read here:
>> https://www.pcgamesn.com/helldivers-2/steam-delisting
>>
>> I'd love to believe this is Valve taking the side of the end-user, but
>> more likely it is more a response against Sony trying to push gamers
>> towards its competing PSN network. Sony wants to onboard people on
>> PSN, because once they have an account there, they are far, far, FAR
>> more likely to make future purchases on that network. Valve,
>> obviously, doesn't want this. They don't want people to even be aware
>> of the competition. They want all purchases to be through Steam.
>>
>> This isn't Valve being on the side of gamers. It's a warning shot to
>> Sony.
>>
>
>Update the Third!!!!
>
>Sony has removed the requirement for those playing on playstation that
>are outside of PSN countries (which no one seemed to realize what even a
>thing.) They're working on what to do with PC/Steam whatever that means.

Update to the Update to the Update to the Update
(wait... is that one too many updates, or one too few?)

Anyway, Sony has backed down on the PSN requirement for all Steam
users, regardless of region.

From their Twitter account*:

"Helldivers fans -- we've heard your feedback on the
Helldivers 2 account linking update. The May 6 update,
which would have required Steam and PlayStation Network
account linking for new players and for cirrent players
beginning May 30, will not be moving forward.

"We're still learning what is best for PC players and
your feedback has been invaluable. Thanks again for your
continued support of Helldivers 2 and we'll keep you updated
on future plans."

Apparently, the review bombing on Steam and elsewhere was intense;
like, WW2 Dresden intense! Supposedly 250,000 negative reviews dropped
on the game in three days. Gamers were /not/ happy.

Although I doubt that had much to do with Sony's change of direction.
More likely, it was Valve's displeasure that had a lot more of an
effect.

I suspect, though, that the next big releases will all have PSN
requirements from the start, and Valve will be fine with that. Sadly,
most gamers will probably roll over and accept it too. It was
retroactively changing the deal that cost Sony.

* no link provided, because fuck Twitter.

On 5/6/2024 9:42 AM, Justisaur wrote:
> On 5/6/2024 9:18 AM, Justisaur wrote:
>> On 5/5/2024 8:20 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>>> On Sat, 4 May 2024 09:19:16 -0700, Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/3/2024 11:43 AM, Justisaur wrote:
>>>>> Helldivers 2 was looking like a pretty good squad Co-op game, I was
>>>>> somewhat interested, but so many things to play, not enough time.  It
>>>>> won't affect me if I were to play it, but there's regions where it was
>>>>> sold that the PSN isn't available.
>>>>
>>>> ***** UPDATE! SONY GASLIGHTS CUSTOMERS! *****
>>>>
>>>> Sony and Arrowhead (the dev) were saying that the fact it wasn't
>>>> required was due to a 'server issue' and it was communicated that it
>>>> was
>>>> a temporary thing.  However screenshots of the requirements from other
>>>> countries where PSN isn't available show it says that PSN is
>>>> "optional."
>>>>   Presumably they haven't updated all their requirements for all the
>>>> foreign pages yet.
>>>>
>>>> They've been caught in a bold faced lie and gaslighting.  The review
>>>> bombing has greatly increased after this was found and now Helldivers 2
>>>> has been dragged down to 'mixed' for all time reviews.  I'm not sure if
>>>> this will have any real legal repercussions due to the usual
>>>> "subject to
>>>> change at any time" clauses present everywhere, and Japan's corrupt
>>>> legal system's favoritism.
>>>
>>> Update to the Update!!!!
>>>
>>> Helldivers 2 has been delisted from Steam in 177 territories*, and -
>>> according to reports - Steam is offering refunds on the game far past
>>> it's usual 2-hour limit.
>>>
>>> * read here:
>>> https://www.pcgamesn.com/helldivers-2/steam-delisting
>>>
>>> I'd love to believe this is Valve taking the side of the end-user, but
>>> more likely it is more a response against Sony trying to push gamers
>>> towards its competing PSN network. Sony wants to onboard people on
>>> PSN, because once they have an account there, they are far, far, FAR
>>> more likely to make future purchases on that network. Valve,
>>> obviously, doesn't want this. They don't want people to even be aware
>>> of the competition. They want all purchases to be through Steam.
>>>
>>> This isn't Valve being on the side of gamers. It's a warning shot to
>>> Sony.
>>>
>>
>> Update the Third!!!!
>>
>> Sony has removed the requirement for those playing on playstation that
>> are outside of PSN countries (which no one seemed to realize what even
>> a thing.)  They're working on what to do with PC/Steam whatever that
>> means.
>>
>
> Apperantly I completely misread that, they are dropping the requirement
> for the Steam PSN requrement.  I got confused about the bit where
> they're still learning what's best for PC. Here's their announcement:
>
> "Helldivers fans -- we’ve heard your feedback on the Helldivers 2
> account linking update. The May 6 update, which would have required
> Steam and PlayStation Network account linking for new players and for
> current players beginning May 30, will not be moving forward.
>
> We’re still learning what is best for PC players and your feedback has
> been invaluable. Thanks again for your continued support of Helldivers 2
> and we’ll keep you updated on future plans."
>
"What's best for us as customers is to not get shafted by companies we
buy from."

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 5/6/2024 9:59 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Mon, 6 May 2024 09:18:16 -0700, Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 5/5/2024 8:20 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>>> On Sat, 4 May 2024 09:19:16 -0700, Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/3/2024 11:43 AM, Justisaur wrote:
>>>>> Helldivers 2 was looking like a pretty good squad Co-op game, I was
>>>>> somewhat interested, but so many things to play, not enough time.  It
>>>>> won't affect me if I were to play it, but there's regions where it was
>>>>> sold that the PSN isn't available.
>>>>
>>>> ***** UPDATE! SONY GASLIGHTS CUSTOMERS! *****
>>>>
>>>> Sony and Arrowhead (the dev) were saying that the fact it wasn't
>>>> required was due to a 'server issue' and it was communicated that it was
>>>> a temporary thing. However screenshots of the requirements from other
>>>> countries where PSN isn't available show it says that PSN is "optional."
>>>> Presumably they haven't updated all their requirements for all the
>>>> foreign pages yet.
>>>>
>>>> They've been caught in a bold faced lie and gaslighting. The review
>>>> bombing has greatly increased after this was found and now Helldivers 2
>>>> has been dragged down to 'mixed' for all time reviews. I'm not sure if
>>>> this will have any real legal repercussions due to the usual "subject to
>>>> change at any time" clauses present everywhere, and Japan's corrupt
>>>> legal system's favoritism.
>>>
>>> Update to the Update!!!!
>>>
>>> Helldivers 2 has been delisted from Steam in 177 territories*, and -
>>> according to reports - Steam is offering refunds on the game far past
>>> it's usual 2-hour limit.
>>>
>>> * read here:
>>> https://www.pcgamesn.com/helldivers-2/steam-delisting
>>>
>>> I'd love to believe this is Valve taking the side of the end-user, but
>>> more likely it is more a response against Sony trying to push gamers
>>> towards its competing PSN network. Sony wants to onboard people on
>>> PSN, because once they have an account there, they are far, far, FAR
>>> more likely to make future purchases on that network. Valve,
>>> obviously, doesn't want this. They don't want people to even be aware
>>> of the competition. They want all purchases to be through Steam.
>>>
>>> This isn't Valve being on the side of gamers. It's a warning shot to
>>> Sony.
>>>
>>
>> Update the Third!!!!
>>
>> Sony has removed the requirement for those playing on playstation that
>> are outside of PSN countries (which no one seemed to realize what even a
>> thing.) They're working on what to do with PC/Steam whatever that means.
>
>
> Update to the Update to the Update to the Update
> (wait... is that one too many updates, or one too few?)
>
> Anyway, Sony has backed down on the PSN requirement for all Steam
> users, regardless of region.
>
> From their Twitter account*:
>
> "Helldivers fans -- we've heard your feedback on the
> Helldivers 2 account linking update. The May 6 update,
> which would have required Steam and PlayStation Network
> account linking for new players and for cirrent players
> beginning May 30, will not be moving forward.
>
> "We're still learning what is best for PC players and
> your feedback has been invaluable. Thanks again for your
> continued support of Helldivers 2 and we'll keep you updated
> on future plans."
>
> Apparently, the review bombing on Steam and elsewhere was intense;
> like, WW2 Dresden intense! Supposedly 250,000 negative reviews dropped
> on the game in three days. Gamers were /not/ happy.
>
> Although I doubt that had much to do with Sony's change of direction.
> More likely, it was Valve's displeasure that had a lot more of an
> effect.
>
> I suspect, though, that the next big releases will all have PSN
> requirements from the start, and Valve will be fine with that. Sadly,
> most gamers will probably roll over and accept it too. It was
> retroactively changing the deal that cost Sony.
>
"I am altering the deal, pray I don't alter it any further."
"This deal is getting worse all the time."

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Sony and Arrowhead (the dev) were saying that the fact it wasn't
>required was due to a 'server issue' and it was communicated that it was
>a temporary thing. However screenshots of the requirements from other
>countries where PSN isn't available show it says that PSN is "optional."
> Presumably they haven't updated all their requirements for all the
>foreign pages yet.

I think you've somehow conflated two different things. The Steam store
page for Helldivers 2 has always said PSN was required for Helldivers 2,
even before it was released, and there's only two Steam store pages for
the game, one for Japan and one for everywhere else. However a help
page on the Sony's website said that PSN account linking was optional
for Sony's PC games (in general, not just Helldivers 2), and this was
probably the screenshot you saw. After the whole controversy errupted
this page was changed.

Despite some conspiracy theories here, the plan was always for Helldivers
2 to require PSN. It wasn't a result of the game's suprise success,
just the opposite. Because it was a smash hit, they disabled the
PSN requirement soon after it launched because it was preventing
people from playing the game. The PSN servers couldn't keep up with
the load. Ultimately Helldiver 2's success may keep it from ever being
a requirement, but Sony hasn't quite promised that.

--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca:11068/
db //

On 06/05/2024 17:59, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> I suspect, though, that the next big releases will all have PSN
> requirements from the start, and Valve will be fine with that. Sadly,
> most gamers will probably roll over and accept it too. It was
> retroactively changing the deal that cost Sony.

Unfortunately yes, I'm more forgiving when it's a live service game but
it does pee me off with single player games as what happens in five or
ten years when you want to fire up a game only to find the server is no
longer available. It adds zero value for the customer so I don't want it.

The issue in general, yes I agree and even worse you find people
actually defending Sony for their actions, it's like turkeys voting for
Xmas. You used to see it on the WoT forums where players would air
legitimate grievances and other players would tell them to stop moaning
and suck it up. It's very much in the same category of if I don't have a
problem with it then your opinion is by definition invalid.

JAB <noway@nochance.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

<snip>
>The issue in general, yes I agree and even worse you find people
>actually defending Sony for their actions, it's like turkeys voting for
>Xmas.

Well some people do have Christmas Hams instead.

More like Turkeys voting for Thanksgiving (a far more Turkey centric
holiday.)

For some of these people they've been purchasers of Sony games for so
long they have Stockholm syndrome.

Sonyholm syndrome?

Xocyll

On 09/05/2024 01:18, Xocyll wrote:
> JAB <noway@nochance.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
> spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
> <snip>
>> The issue in general, yes I agree and even worse you find people
>> actually defending Sony for their actions, it's like turkeys voting for
>> Xmas.
>
> Well some people do have Christmas Hams instead.
>
> More like Turkeys voting for Thanksgiving (a far more Turkey centric
> holiday.)
>
> For some of these people they've been purchasers of Sony games for so
> long they have Stockholm syndrome.
>
> Sonyholm syndrome?
>
> Xocyll

Ham is for Boxing day, everyone knows that!