[Crossposting to comp.os.linux.misc . ]

On Thu, 5 Jan 2023 11:33:39 +0000
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Dan Espen wrote:
>
> > Andy Burns writes:
> >
> >> what do people actually want X11 for now?
> >
> > To keep running the same WM I've been using for decades.
>
> I fall into the category where Gnome (my distro's default) as a WM doesn't annoy
> me enough to use anything different, I did use XFCE for a bit, and now I don't
> know which do/don't work with wayland ... that's what I meant by "fizzle out" if
> your favourite WM doesn't support wayland, eventually it's going to find it self
> beached without X11 to run on top of ..

I was under the impression that one of the plans for Wayland was to be able
to run X server on top of it so that all X11 applications would continue to
work. Has this plan been abandoned ?

Spiros Bousbouras wrote:

> I was under the impression that one of the plans for Wayland was to be able
> to run X server on top of it so that all X11 applications would continue to
> work. Has this plan been abandoned ?

I think that still exists, XServer sits on top of Wayland, apps tolk to XServer,
believing it's Xorg, but when that first crept into Fedora, it seemed to break
the tradional way of X remoting by

export DISPLAY=host:0.0

On Thu, 5 Jan 2023 19:33:01 +0000
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Spiros Bousbouras wrote:
>
> > I was under the impression that one of the plans for Wayland was to be able
> > to run X server on top of it so that all X11 applications would continue to
> > work. Has this plan been abandoned ?
>
> I think that still exists, XServer sits on top of Wayland, apps tolk to XServer,
> believing it's Xorg,

Then why did you say in <k1nqskFauepU1@mid.individual.net>

if your favourite WM doesn't support wayland, eventually it's going to
find it self beached without X11 to run on top of ..

? Applications needing X11 will still be able to find it.

> but when that first crept into Fedora, it seemed to break
> the tradional way of X remoting by
>
> export DISPLAY=host:0.0

This seems minor.

--
vlaho.ninja/prog

In comp.misc Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Spiros Bousbouras wrote:
>
>> I was under the impression that one of the plans for Wayland was to be able
>> to run X server on top of it so that all X11 applications would continue to
>> work. Has this plan been abandoned ?
>
> I think that still exists, XServer sits on top of Wayland, apps tolk to XServer,
> believing it's Xorg, but when that first crept into Fedora, it seemed to break
> the tradional way of X remoting by
>
> export DISPLAY=host:0.0
>

That is because modern versions of the XServer have disabled TCP listening by default.

$ cat /etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc
#!/bin/sh
exec /usr/bin/X -nolisten tcp "$@"

You need to remove the '-nolisten tcp' from /etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc
That should do the trick.

In comp.misc Javier <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> In comp.misc Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>> Spiros Bousbouras wrote:
>>
>>> I was under the impression that one of the plans for Wayland was to be able
>>> to run X server on top of it so that all X11 applications would continue to
>>> work. Has this plan been abandoned ?
>>
>> I think that still exists, XServer sits on top of Wayland, apps tolk to XServer,
>> believing it's Xorg, but when that first crept into Fedora, it seemed to break
>> the tradional way of X remoting by
>>
>> export DISPLAY=host:0.0
>>
>
> That is because modern versions of the XServer have disabled TCP
> listening by default.

Correct, and they didn't document the change properly either. Last
time I checked the current version of the man page didn't describe
the changed default. If they're going to mess with core
functionality like that and not bother to document it, then I
_would_ much rather that they wound down work on Xorg.

> $ cat /etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc
> #!/bin/sh
> exec /usr/bin/X -nolisten tcp "$@"
>
> You need to remove the '-nolisten tcp' from /etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc
> That should do the trick.

Incorrect, that's what you needed to do _before_ the change to the
Xorg server. Now '-nolisten tcp' is the default so that argument
does nothing. Instead to enable remote connections like X used to
do without the '-nolisten tcp' option, you use the '-listen tcp'
option in the same place:

exec /usr/bin/X -listen tcp "$@"

But I don't know whether that's the problem in Fedora, or even how
they actually launch X within Wayland there (do they even use
xinit or startx?).

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Am 05.01.2023 um 18:11:17 Uhr schrieb Spiros Bousbouras:

> [Crossposting to comp.os.linux.misc . ]
>
> On Thu, 5 Jan 2023 11:33:39 +0000
> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> > Dan Espen wrote:
> >
> > > Andy Burns writes:
> > >
> > >> what do people actually want X11 for now?
> > >
> > > To keep running the same WM I've been using for decades.
> >
> > I fall into the category where Gnome (my distro's default) as a WM
> > doesn't annoy me enough to use anything different, I did use XFCE
> > for a bit, and now I don't know which do/don't work with wayland
> > ... that's what I meant by "fizzle out" if your favourite WM
> > doesn't support wayland, eventually it's going to find it self
> > beached without X11 to run on top of ..
>
> I was under the impression that one of the plans for Wayland was to
> be able to run X server on top of it so that all X11 applications
> would continue to work. Has this plan been abandoned ?

What is the benefit of that if the WM itself doesn't run on Wayland?

In comp.misc Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
> Am 05.01.2023 um 18:11:17 Uhr schrieb Spiros Bousbouras:
>>
>> I was under the impression that one of the plans for Wayland was to
>> be able to run X server on top of it so that all X11 applications
>> would continue to work. Has this plan been abandoned ?
>
> What is the benefit of that if the WM itself doesn't run on Wayland?

So that software that doesn't use a Wayland-supporting graphics
toolkit can still be run on a system running Wayland. Most distros
package many programs that will probably never be rewritten to work
on Wayland directly.

My assumption is that there's some magic that allows separate X
program windows to display in separate Wayland windows while still
sharing the same X server, like Xming can do on Windows.

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