well it's been a while since i poked around here. <well since deeney and
the Llama incident>. Well as things would have it i scarcely ride dirt
bikes anymore and did pick up a 2001 road king. so far the upgrade of
the chain tension-er is the only issue that has attacked my wallet. it's
been 25+ years since street riding and so far so good. I've spent some
time getting used to the extra 500+ pound of bike by doing figure 8's in
the parking lot, & other slow speed maneuvers ect. i did try some quick
stops and tested out the braking capabilities, which are impressive for
a "older" gentleman's bike. any advice or things to look for on a older,
but well maintained road king would be great.
john

On 9/9/2021 6:51 PM, john wrote:
> well it's been a while since i poked around here. <well since deeney and
> the Llama incident>. Well as things would have it i scarcely ride dirt
> bikes anymore and did pick up a 2001 road king. so far the upgrade of
> the chain tension-er is the only issue that has attacked my wallet. it's
> been 25+ years since street riding and so far so good. I've spent some
> time getting used to the extra 500+ pound of bike by doing figure 8's in
> the parking lot, & other slow speed maneuvers ect. i did try some quick
> stops and tested out the braking capabilities, which are impressive for
> a "older" gentleman's bike. any advice or things to look for on a older,
> but well maintained road king would be great.
> john

I've never been totally impressed with stock Harley brakes. I've owned a
couple and rode a couple more. My 97 FLHT improved with some kevlar
brake pads. (My personal favorite Harley. Maybe my favorite bike of
all time.)

My wife's 92FLSTF ultimately got a larger bore front brake cylinder. It
got a lot of stuff though. It was a show bike AND a daily rider. I
still have take off parts and take offs of dress up parts that were
replaced with fancier ones from that bike. I remember when my wife
decided to put on some new fancy handle bars the night before a run.
About 11 at night she came in the house almost in tears that it wasn't
going to get done. I went out and strung wires until 3:00 am before I
took it for a test ride, but we went on that run. I went straight home
afterwards for a nap, but we went. LOL.

My old AMF/Frankenstein FX definitely needed better front brakes and got
a larger bore front master. The rear worked ok, but I had a weird lock
up on it once like it wasn't retracting fully. I bled pressure along
side the road with a glowing red hot brake, and it never did it again.
That bike definitely taught me to always carry a toolkit on my bike. LOL

The '03 Road Glide Patti replaced her Fatboy with had just barely
adequate brakes but they felt really soft spongy. I actually took it to
the dealer and complained, but they said that was the way they were
supposed to be. I did some panic brake tests on it and was concerned my
wife's hand strength would not be adequate, but I could hard stop it
with the front lever nearly touching the grip. If I had a finger behind
it or even some fringe of a glove I would not have been able to get full
braking. She rode it to work everyday for about 3-4 years before she
decided it was just to much for her anymore. She never hit anybody, so
it was probably ok.

Really though the 2002 VRSCA had decent brakes. Lousy lean angle and a
tendency to go straight really well, but decent brakes. LOL.

I've heard that dirt bikes tend towards softer front brakes (never been
a dirt bike rider myself), because a lockup is a higher risk in dirt
than on the road. I can see where a dirt rider might like the brakes on
a Harley.

Just my opinion. I felt all three of my Goldwings(75/75/84), four
Shadows, Magna, Heritage Special, CL350, GN250, 1600 Mean Streak, etc
etc etc all had better brakes than my Harleys except for the VRSCA.

OH WAIT A MINUTE. The Paughco 750 Savior Springer definitely did not
have better brakes. It really didn't have better anything except for
cool factor sitting in front of a road side tavern. LOL.

I just realized... I have to sit back and actively think about it and
I'm not sure I can remember every bike I've ever owned anymore. Well
not all the details. Used to be be I could recite the make, model,
year, and engine details of every one. Well, I've been fortunate to own
a lot of motorcycles.

Thanks for listening ya'all. Have a round of the good stuff for those
who want and a glass of milk for the rest on me.

--
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Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:
<snip>
> I've never been totally impressed with stock Harley brakes.

With good reason. But they did get much better....let's go down
the list!

> I've owned a
> couple and rode a couple more. My 97 FLHT improved with some kevlar
> brake pads. (My personal favorite Harley. Maybe my favorite bike of
> all time.)

Yep, the big single piston caliper brakes. Better than the
banana caliper slow-downers they replaced, for sure, but still, not
great. The FLHT had the advantage of dual disks. Same as my FXRS-SP.
I finally got tired of those shitty hockey-pick looking calipers and
got PM 4-pistons all around and good braided brake lines (BTW, most
aftermarket braided lines are *not* DOT approved. If they can't be
bothered to pass a simple certification, what else are they skimping
on? Shop around.)

> My wife's 92FLSTF ultimately got a larger bore front brake cylinder.

Exact same brakes as your FLHT. But in a single disk, with the
same huge contact patch to slow down. So, barely adequate, divided by
2.

The bigger bore master cylinder is actually *increasing* her
brake lever travel, but at the benefit of decreasing the effort
needed. That's why the dual discs use 11/16" bore master cylinder,
and the single discs 5/8" for those years for the effort and travel to
feel roughly the same.

> My old AMF/Frankenstein FX definitely needed better front brakes and got
> a larger bore front master. The rear worked ok, but I had a weird lock
> up on it once like it wasn't retracting fully. I bled pressure along
> side the road with a glowing red hot brake, and it never did it again.
> That bike definitely taught me to always carry a toolkit on my bike. LOL

Banana caliper slow-downers, I'm guessing? Or the first
generation FX weird single puck ones that came just after?
All...sub-optimal, to say the least!

> The '03 Road Glide Patti replaced her Fatboy with had just barely
> adequate brakes but they felt really soft spongy. I actually took it to
> the dealer and complained, but they said that was the way they were
> supposed to be. I did some panic brake tests on it and was concerned my
> wife's hand strength would not be adequate, but I could hard stop it
> with the front lever nearly touching the grip. If I had a finger behind
> it or even some fringe of a glove I would not have been able to get full
> braking.

Now that's some bullshit right there. Those 2000-up 4-piston
caliper brakes *are* much better than what they replaced on your
previous bikes. The caveat, however, is that those calipers have lots
of nooks and crannies for air bubbles to hide in. Bleeding properly
takes time and skill. This dealer was clearly short on both, and
knowledge.

If you still have that bike, put a few tie-wraps around the brake
lever and front grip (put a rag between the tie-wraps and the grip if
the grip is made of rubber or foam), and tighten them as much as you
can. Leave it overnight. Thank me in the morning.

> Really though the 2002 VRSCA had decent brakes. Lousy lean angle and a
> tendency to go straight really well, but decent brakes. LOL.

Same exact brakes as her Road Glide.

> Just my opinion. I felt all three of my Goldwings(75/75/84), four
> Shadows, Magna, Heritage Special, CL350, GN250, 1600 Mean Streak, etc
> etc etc all had better brakes than my Harleys except for the VRSCA.

Leave it to Harley to be, let's say, not exactly on the cutting
edge of technology! They've been using the same Showa conventional
forks from Showa since 1976, until they finally went to a cartridge
set up on some models in the mid 2000s.

The newer Brembo brakes as supposed to be even better. I have no
idea who made the 2000-up 4-piston ones, but may have it in some notes
somewhere...If Brembo made shitty brakes when it's well known they're
making the newer calipers, they'd be in trouble (I don't know if
there's actual Brembo branding on them, haven't looked up close.)

Phil
--
AH#61 Wolf#14 BS#89 bus#1 CCB#1 SENS KOTC#4
philb@philb.ca http://philb.ca

On 9/11/2021 11:26 AM, Phil Boutros wrote:

>
> The newer Brembo brakes as supposed to be even better. I have no
> idea who made the 2000-up 4-piston ones, but may have it in some notes
> somewhere...If Brembo made shitty brakes when it's well known they're
> making the newer calipers, they'd be in trouble (I don't know if
> there's actual Brembo branding on them, haven't looked up close.)
>
>
> Phil
>

Ha! Talk about branding. I decided I needed to stiffen up the
engine/trany connection on my FLHT at one point. Kury Aiken (spelling)
had a "race brace" for that purpose. A bit of searching found Harley
had one as well that was actually significantly cheaper at the time I
was looking. When I opened the box I found the Harley one was made by
Kury Aiken.

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On 9/11/21 11:12 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 9/9/2021 6:51 PM, john wrote:
>> well it's been a while since i poked around here. <well since deeney
>> and the Llama incident>. Well as things would have it i scarcely ride
>> dirt bikes anymore and did pick up a 2001 road king. so far the
>> upgrade of the chain tension-er is the only issue that has attacked my
>> wallet. it's been 25+ years since street riding and so far so good.
>> I've spent some time getting used to the extra 500+ pound of bike by
>> doing figure 8's in the parking lot, & other slow speed maneuvers ect.
>> i did try some quick stops and tested out the braking capabilities,
>> which are impressive for a "older" gentleman's bike. any advice or
>> things to look for on a older, but well maintained road king would be
>> great.
>> john
>
>
> I've never been totally impressed with stock Harley brakes. I've owned a
> couple and rode a couple more.  My 97 FLHT improved with some kevlar
> brake pads.  (My personal favorite Harley.  Maybe my favorite bike of
> all time.)
>

impressive (for an older gentleman's bike) not impressive for modern
sport bike. Honestly i thought the brakes would have been marginal
at best. I'll have to look at them closer to see if they have been
after-marketed.

> My wife's 92FLSTF ultimately got a larger bore front brake cylinder.  It
> got a lot of stuff though.  It was a show bike AND a daily rider.  I
> still have take off parts and take offs of dress up parts that were
> replaced with fancier ones from that bike.  I remember when my wife
> decided to put on some new fancy handle bars the night before a run.
> About 11 at night she came in the house almost in tears that it wasn't
> going to get done.  I went out and strung wires until 3:00 am before I
> took it for a test ride, but we went on that run.  I went straight home
> afterwards for a nap, but we went.  LOL.
>
> My old AMF/Frankenstein FX definitely needed better front brakes and got
> a larger bore front master.  The rear worked ok, but I had a weird lock
> up on it once like it wasn't retracting fully.  I bled pressure along
> side the road with a glowing red hot brake, and it never did it again.
> That bike definitely taught me to always carry a toolkit on my bike.  LOL

my tool kit is already in the bag, might add a few things as this
progresses.

>
> The '03 Road Glide Patti replaced her Fatboy with had just barely
> adequate brakes but they felt really soft spongy.  I actually took it to
> the dealer and complained, but they said that was the way they were
> supposed to be.  I did some panic brake tests on it and was concerned my
> wife's hand strength would not be adequate, but I could hard stop it
> with the front lever nearly touching the grip.  If I had a finger behind
> it or even some fringe of a glove I would not have been able to get full
> braking.  She rode it to work everyday for about 3-4 years before she
> decided it was just to much for her anymore.  She never hit anybody, so
> it was probably ok.
>
> Really though the 2002 VRSCA had decent brakes.  Lousy lean angle and a
> tendency to go straight really well, but decent brakes.  LOL.
>
> I've heard that dirt bikes tend towards softer front brakes (never been
> a dirt bike rider myself), because a lockup is a higher risk in dirt
> than on the road.  I can see where a dirt rider might like the brakes on
> a Harley.

my dirt bikes lock the front pretty easily since they are setup for
trials & tight single track style riding.

>
> Just my opinion.  I felt all three of my Goldwings(75/75/84), four
> Shadows, Magna, Heritage Special, CL350, GN250, 1600 Mean Streak, etc
> etc etc all had better brakes than my Harleys except for the VRSCA.
>
> OH WAIT A MINUTE.  The Paughco 750 Savior Springer definitely did not
> have better brakes.  It really didn't have better anything except for
> cool factor sitting in front of a road side tavern.  LOL.
>
> I just realized...  I have to sit back and actively think about it and
> I'm not sure I can remember every bike I've ever owned anymore.  Well
> not all the details.  Used to be be I could recite the make, model,
> year, and engine details of every one.  Well, I've been fortunate to own
> a lot of motorcycles.

i think i am at the age i only remember the ones that gave me scars...
85 kaw 750 turbo, 73 water buffalo, 84 rz350....ect...

>
> Thanks for listening ya'all.  Have a round of the good stuff for those
> who want and a glass of milk for the rest on me.
raising a glass of maker's mark your direction.
john

On 9/11/21 2:26 PM, Phil Boutros wrote:
> Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:
> <snip>
>> I've never been totally impressed with stock Harley brakes.
>
> With good reason. But they did get much better....let's go down
> the list!

> <redacted>

> If you still have that bike, put a few tie-wraps around the brake
> lever and front grip (put a rag between the tie-wraps and the grip if
> the grip is made of rubber or foam), and tighten them as much as you
> can. Leave it overnight. Thank me in the morning.
>
> Phil
>

ohhhh, Phil, excellent tip did something similar to a 60's jaguar that i
just couldn't bleed right. a wwII mechanic friend ended up putting a
broom handle on the brake overnight, and it was much better the next day.
john