You will note that Abraham chose to obey God (to choose God) and
sacrifice Isaac on an altar. And since he was going to, God stopped his
hand.

Please note that no "scriptures,"  "papyrus," or "scroll" were handy at
the time! :-).

I digress.

No sinner is righteous, no sinner has integrity, all sinners are liars,
but sinners still have a choice, a free will choice. It is portrayed in
the world (sinner Christianity) that choice makes one righteous; it most
certainly does not! If it did, then we could make ourselves righteous,
right?

And that can never be!

So, the best Abraham could hope for was...

Gal 3:6  Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for
righteousness.

His choice could only be "accounted" to him for righteousness.

Abraham would have to wait in faith for the Messiah (God) for him to be
made righteousness.

Still, to this day, it remains that you either choose God or yourself,
but understand this: there is no in-between world for the lukewarm
sinner to snuggle in and hold up in some "positional" or "forensic"
bullshit theology.

Why is that?

It's all or nothing—you lose your life or you keep it. That is it!

God or self, that is your choice, and never the twain shall meet.

Michael Christ

--
God is God in all His Being.

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt
are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that
hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance (voice, the Person) of
God. When you find Him you have found the author."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul, and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do; it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free and free indeed with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that a sinner could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

What does a fool do? A fool looks for a "nothing" in a "something" in
order to explain the existence of existence.

"Unless you do all because He is who He is, all your religion is in vain."

"Every man is subject to God; He judges every man, and He is reality.
 What a gift in a fallen world!"

"Love MUST be a choice or it is nothing but a law!"

"Why were all men born sinners? So that God could reveal Himself, so
that we would behold the glory of God, and that we should bring forth
the glory of God"

"God does not and will not arbitrate for any man to love Him! If God
isn't everything to you, He is nothing to you where the rubber meets the
road."

"It is the unforgivable sin not to love God with all your heart, soul,
and mind. What do you have that is lasting? It is not so much being
punished; it is what you are left with."

"Love isn't worth anything without first a free will choice for God to
birth it in a man."

"The point of salvation: desperation. Anything less than that is
self-righteousness."

"A sinner is not a believer in God; a sinner is a believer in sin."

"A piece of dirt is not the promised land; that is only a reflection.
The promised land is knowing Me, says the Lord."

"It is all about God or it is all about idolatry."

"The Lord Jesus is coming soon. He has always come soon."

"There is no revolving door of self-worship in a son of God's life!"

"There is no such thing as random!"

"You can't truly love without it being with all your heart."

"No one can see God without their whole heart. Unless you can see God,
you know nothing."

"You can't learn God, God has to reveal Himself to you."

"No sinner is sinless in any way."

"Only God is life; only the Kingdom of God of His "Nature" is life."

"What you believe is just a leaning on your own understanding; faith is
a leaning on the one you have chosen to trust."

"God uses the "letter" to crucify a man and raise him from the dead."

On Apr 2, 2024, Michael Christ wrote
(in article <uugom6$2ukmh$4@dont-email.me>):

> You will note that Abraham chose to obey God (to choose God) and
> sacrifice Isaac on an altar. And since he was going to, God stopped his
> hand.

“And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to
Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou
perfect. And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply
thee exceedingly. And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him,
saying,†(Gen 17:1-3, KJV)

In regards to the sacrifice of Isaac it is written,...

Gen 22:7-16 (KJV)

7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said,
Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but whereis the
lamb for a burnt offering?

8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt
offering: so they went both of them together.

9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an
altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid
him on the altar upon the wood.

10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.

11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said,
Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.

12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing
unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld
thy son, thine only son from me.

13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behindhim a ram
caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and
offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.

14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovah jireh: as it is said to
this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.

15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second
time,

16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast
done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:

This is a picture of Jesus The Christ, as our substitute for sin. Paying the
price for our sin. Isaac is our Brother and as Isaac was to be a sin offering
V13 Abraham was stopped, having followed Gods plan for him and his son, and
God provided the Substitute for a sin offering. This was a prophetic action
exampled through Abraham and Isaac.

May God open your eyes to see.

>
>
> Please note that no "scriptures," "papyrus," or "scroll" were handy at
> the time! :-).
>
> I digress.
>
> No sinner is righteous, no sinner has integrity, all sinners are liars,
> but sinners still have a choice, a free will choice. It is portrayed in
> the world (sinner Christianity) that choice makes one righteous; it most
> certainly does not! If it did, then we could make ourselves righteous,
> right?
>
> And that can never be!
>
> So, the best Abraham could hope for was...

As shown to you via the scripture above, Abraham was made/accounted as
perfect by the LORD; Gen 17:1
>
>
> Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for
> righteousness.
>
> His choice could only be "accounted" to him for righteousness.

As shown to you, you are in full error here.
>
>
> Abraham would have to wait in faith for the Messiah (God) for him to be
> made righteousness.

By faith, and the word of the LORD, he was made whom he was made, all he had
to do is walk before the LORD.
Obviously he did or there would have been no Messiah.

>
>
> Still, to this day, it remains that you either choose God or yourself,
> but understand this: there is no in-between world for the lukewarm
> sinner to snuggle in and hold up in some "positional" or "forensic"
> bullshit theology.
>
> Why is that?
>
> It's all or nothing—you lose your life or you keep it. That is it!
>
> God or self, that is your choice, and never the twain shall meet.

You do not even meet your own standards, so why not follow God as did
Abraham?
>
>
> Michael Christ

Michael Christ wrote:

> You will note that Abraham chose to obey God (to choose God) and
> sacrifice Isaac on an altar. And since he was going to, God stopped
> his hand.
>
> Please note that no "scriptures,"  "papyrus," or "scroll" were handy
> at the time! :-).
>
> I digress.
>
> No sinner is righteous, no sinner has integrity, all sinners are
> liars, but sinners still have a choice, a free will choice. It is
> portrayed in the world (sinner Christianity) that choice makes one
> righteous; it most certainly does not! If it did, then we could make
> ourselves righteous, right?
>
> And that can never be!
>
> So, the best Abraham could hope for was...
>
> Gal 3:6  Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him
> for righteousness.
>
> His choice could only be "accounted" to him for righteousness.
>
> Abraham would have to wait in faith for the Messiah (God) for him to
> be made righteousness.
>
> Still, to this day, it remains that you either choose God or
> yourself, but understand this: there is no in-between world for the
> lukewarm sinner to snuggle in and hold up in some "positional" or
> "forensic" bullshit theology.
>
> Why is that?
>
> It's all or nothing—you lose your life or you keep it. That is it!
>
> God or self, that is your choice, and never the twain shall meet.
>
>
> Michael Christ

Yes, well said.

(snip)

Piss off, and take your satanic context with you, Dumper.

Michael Christ

--
God is God in all His Being.

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt
are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that
hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance (voice, the Person) of
God. When you find Him you have found the author."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul, and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do; it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free and free indeed with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that a sinner could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

What does a fool do? A fool looks for a "nothing" in a "something" in
order to explain the existence of existence.

"Unless you do all because He is who He is, all your religion is in vain."

"Every man is subject to God; He judges every man, and He is reality.
 What a gift in a fallen world!"

"Love MUST be a choice or it is nothing but a law!"

"Why were all men born sinners? So that God could reveal Himself, so
that we would behold the glory of God, and that we should bring forth
the glory of God"

"God does not and will not arbitrate for any man to love Him! If God
isn't everything to you, He is nothing to you where the rubber meets the
road."

"It is the unforgivable sin not to love God with all your heart, soul,
and mind. What do you have that is lasting? It is not so much being
punished; it is what you are left with."

"Love isn't worth anything without first a free will choice for God to
birth it in a man."

"The point of salvation: desperation. Anything less than that is
self-righteousness."

"A sinner is not a believer in God; a sinner is a believer in sin."

"A piece of dirt is not the promised land; that is only a reflection.
The promised land is knowing Me, says the Lord."

"It is all about God or it is all about idolatry."

"The Lord Jesus is coming soon. He has always come soon."

"There is no revolving door of self-worship in a son of God's life!"

"There is no such thing as random!"

"You can't truly love without it being with all your heart."

"No one can see God without their whole heart. Unless you can see God,
you know nothing."

"You can't learn God, God has to reveal Himself to you."

"No sinner is sinless in any way."

"Only God is life; only the Kingdom of God of His "Nature" is life."

"What you believe is just a leaning on your own understanding; faith is
a leaning on the one you have chosen to trust."

"God uses the "letter" to crucify a man and raise him from the dead."

On 3/04/2024 2:47 am, Robert wrote:
> On Apr 2, 2024, Michael Christ wrote
> (in article <uugom6$2ukmh$4@dont-email.me>):
>
>> You will note that Abraham chose to obey God (to choose God) and
>> sacrifice Isaac on an altar. And since he was going to, God stopped his
>> hand.
>
> “And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to
> Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou
> perfect. And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply
> thee exceedingly. And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him,
> saying,†(Gen 17:1-3, KJV)
>
> In regards to the sacrifice of Isaac it is written,...
>
> Gen 22:7-16 (KJV)
>
> 7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said,
> Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but whereis the
> lamb for a burnt offering?
>
> 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt
> offering: so they went both of them together.
>
> 9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an
> altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid
> him on the altar upon the wood.
>
> 10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
>
> 11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said,
> Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
>
> 12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing
> unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld
> thy son, thine only son from me.
>
> 13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behindhim a ram
> caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and
> offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.

The Lord took me back to your context.......

What you don't see is that Abraham still had to make an offering for his
sin. Let that sink in.

Therefore, accounted righteousness (fearing God) does not equal
righteousness (in Christ Jesus/God). Therefore, obviously, there is a
difference between Abraham's "accounted as righteousness" and "God's
righteousness!"

There, I have addressed 'your context' upon 'my context in my posting.'

And to add to 'my context'............

1) Abraham still needed the Messiah to come; the Lord's (God's)
righteousness.

2) Fearing God is not enough; one must repent in dust and ashes for who
they are.

3) Job and Abraham were regarded as "perfect and righteous" because they
were in their fear of God, but fear does not make a man choose God.

4) What makes a man choose God is choosing Him for who He is, and for
that a man needs the Lord to reveal Himself personally.

5) If that does not occur, then that man isn't all that interested in
God but more interested in himself.

6) "God or self? That's your choice...1, 2, and 3!

Michael Christ

>
> 14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovah jireh: as it is said to
> this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.
>
> 15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second
> time,
>
> 16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast
> done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
>
> This is a picture of Jesus The Christ, as our substitute for sin. Paying the
> price for our sin. Isaac is our Brother and as Isaac was to be a sin offering
> V13 Abraham was stopped, having followed Gods plan for him and his son, and
> God provided the Substitute for a sin offering. This was a prophetic action
> exampled through Abraham and Isaac.
>
> May God open your eyes to see.
>
>>
>>
>> Please note that no "scriptures," "papyrus," or "scroll" were handy at
>> the time! :-).
>>
>> I digress.
>>
>> No sinner is righteous, no sinner has integrity, all sinners are liars,
>> but sinners still have a choice, a free will choice. It is portrayed in
>> the world (sinner Christianity) that choice makes one righteous; it most
>> certainly does not! If it did, then we could make ourselves righteous,
>> right?
>>
>> And that can never be!
>>
>> So, the best Abraham could hope for was...
>
> As shown to you via the scripture above, Abraham was made/accounted as
> perfect by the LORD; Gen 17:1
>>
>>
>> Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for
>> righteousness.
>>
>> His choice could only be "accounted" to him for righteousness.
>
> As shown to you, you are in full error here.
>>
>>
>> Abraham would have to wait in faith for the Messiah (God) for him to be
>> made righteousness.
>
> By faith, and the word of the LORD, he was made whom he was made, all he had
> to do is walk before the LORD.
> Obviously he did or there would have been no Messiah.
>
>>
>>
>> Still, to this day, it remains that you either choose God or yourself,
>> but understand this: there is no in-between world for the lukewarm
>> sinner to snuggle in and hold up in some "positional" or "forensic"
>> bullshit theology.
>>
>> Why is that?
>>
>> It's all or nothing—you lose your life or you keep it. That is it!
>>
>> God or self, that is your choice, and never the twain shall meet.
>
> You do not even meet your own standards, so why not follow God as did
> Abraham?
>>
>>
>> Michael Christ
>
>

--
God is God in all His Being.

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt
are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that
hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance (voice, the Person) of
God. When you find Him you have found the author."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul, and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do; it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free and free indeed with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

On Apr 3, 2024, Michael Christ wrote
(in article <uukq99$4k0o$5@dont-email.me>):

> On 3/04/2024 2:47 am, Robert wrote:
> > On Apr 2, 2024, Michael Christ wrote
> > (in article <uugom6$2ukmh$4@dont-email.me>):
> >
> > > You will note that Abraham chose to obey God (to choose God) and
> > > sacrifice Isaac on an altar. And since he was going to, God stopped his
> > > hand.
> >
> > “And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to
> > Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou
> > perfect. And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply
> > thee exceedingly. And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him,
> > saying,†(Gen 17:1-3, KJV)
> >
> > In regards to the sacrifice of Isaac it is written,...
> >
> > Gen 22:7-16 (KJV)
> >
> > 7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said,
> > Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but whereis
> > the
> > lamb for a burnt offering?
> >
> > 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt
> > offering: so they went both of them together.
> >
> > 9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an
> > altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid
> > him on the altar upon the wood.
> >
> > 10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
> >
> > 11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said,
> > Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
> >
> > 12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing
> > unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not
> > withheld
> > thy son, thine only son from me.
> >
> > 13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behindhim a ram
> > caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and
> > offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
>
> The Lord took me back to your context.......
>
> What you don't see is that Abraham still had to make an offering for his
> sin. Let that sink in.

But of course, and he did it by Faith, and God knew his heart, and so God
honored him. ALL the men that God accounted perfect in the OT, sacrificed by
faith of the Messiah to come. Job included. They all did it annually. And God
provided the sacrifice, directly, in that situation, fulfilling what Abraham
said, that the Lord would provide the sacrifice. See V13

>
>
> Therefore, accounted righteousness (fearing God) does not equal
> righteousness (in Christ Jesus/God). Therefore, obviously, there is a
> difference between Abraham's "accounted as righteousness" and "God's
> righteousness!"

Incorrect. God rewarded them all their life for their continuance in him.
Look at what Satan said about perfect Job. That he could not touch him
because of the hedge God had around Job. Plus, the righteousness that God
accounted to him was from God, not because of their deeds.Now matter how you
slice and dice it, it all came from God to man.
>
>
> There, I have addressed 'your context' upon 'my context in my posting.'

No, you misconstrued the work of God as well as His word.
>
>
> And to add to 'my context'............
>
> 1) Abraham still needed the Messiah to come; the Lord's (God's)
> righteousness.

And that is why he dwelt in paradise until the resurrection of Jesus, as did
all the other saints.
>
>
> 2) Fearing God is not enough; one must repent in dust and ashes for who
> they are.

Not by works under the saving Grace of Jesus, Jesus paid the price in full.

Repentance is doing a 180 change, change in heart and actions.
>
> 3) Job and Abraham were regarded as "perfect and righteous" because they
> were in their fear of God, but fear does not make a man choose God.

Fear in such a case is reverence and total respect, knowing and recognizing
his total authority.
>
> 4) What makes a man choose God is choosing Him for who He is, and for
> that a man needs the Lord to reveal Himself personally.

In part yes, but it is also due to recognition that he alone is God and we
are not, also realizing the we can do nothing on ourselves, the we are
sinners in need of redemption.
>
> 5) If that does not occur, then that man isn't all that interested in
> God but more interested in himself.

Many ‘christians’ are that way also.
>
>
> 6) "God or self? That's your choice...1, 2, and 3!

One must, at all times, walk in the Spirit, never looking back, as did Lots
wife, in order to fulfill that.

Paul raked Peter over the coals for the egregious errors he made, yet he
never once condemned him to hell, etc. for them and that is something for you
to consider when propagating your personal doctrine of making no mistakes.
Jesus who is our High Priest in Heaven, before the throne of His Father, is
also our advocate. Why, because he was tested in all points as we are daily.
He knows what it is like to live as a man living in this world of evil. We
need a good lawyer there, and he fulfills the need perfectly.

If all christians never committed any sin there would be no need for an
advocate.
>
>
> Michael Christ

I do appreciate your efforts in addressing some of what I said, but are you
recanting that your self is god?
>
>
> >
> > 14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovah jireh: as it is said to
> > this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.
> >
> > 15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second
> > time,
> >
> > 16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast
> > done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
> >
> > This is a picture of Jesus The Christ, as our substitute for sin. Paying the
> > price for our sin. Isaac is our Brother and as Isaac was to be a sin
> > offering
> > V13 Abraham was stopped, having followed Gods plan for him and his son, and
> > God provided the Substitute for a sin offering. This was a prophetic action
> > exampled through Abraham and Isaac.
> >
> > May God open your eyes to see.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Please note that no "scriptures," "papyrus," or "scroll" were handy at
> > > the time! :-).
> > >
> > > I digress.
> > >
> > > No sinner is righteous, no sinner has integrity, all sinners are liars,
> > > but sinners still have a choice, a free will choice. It is portrayed in
> > > the world (sinner Christianity) that choice makes one righteous; it most
> > > certainly does not! If it did, then we could make ourselves righteous,
> > > right?
> > >
> > > And that can never be!
> > >
> > > So, the best Abraham could hope for was...
> >
> > As shown to you via the scripture above, Abraham was made/accounted as
> > perfect by the LORD; Gen 17:1
> > >
> > >
> > > Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for
> > > righteousness.
> > >
> > > His choice could only be "accounted" to him for righteousness.
> >
> > As shown to you, you are in full error here.
> > >
> > >
> > > Abraham would have to wait in faith for the Messiah (God) for him to be
> > > made righteousness.
> >
> > By faith, and the word of the LORD, he was made whom he was made, all he had
> > to do is walk before the LORD.
> > Obviously he did or there would have been no Messiah.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Still, to this day, it remains that you either choose God or yourself,
> > > but understand this: there is no in-between world for the lukewarm
> > > sinner to snuggle in and hold up in some "positional" or "forensic"
> > > bullshit theology.
> > >
> > > Why is that?
> > >
> > > It's all or nothing—you lose your life or you keep it. That is it!
> > >
> > > God or self, that is your choice, and never the twain shall meet.
> >
> > You do not even meet your own standards, so why not follow God as did
> > Abraham?
> > >
> > >
> > > Michael Christ

On 4/04/2024 1:08 pm, Robert wrote:
> On Apr 3, 2024, Michael Christ wrote
> (in article <uukq99$4k0o$5@dont-email.me>):
>
>> On 3/04/2024 2:47 am, Robert wrote:
>>> On Apr 2, 2024, Michael Christ wrote
>>> (in article <uugom6$2ukmh$4@dont-email.me>):
>>>
>>>> You will note that Abraham chose to obey God (to choose God) and
>>>> sacrifice Isaac on an altar. And since he was going to, God stopped his
>>>> hand.
>>>
>>> “And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to
>>> Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou
>>> perfect. And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply
>>> thee exceedingly. And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him,
>>> saying,†(Gen 17:1-3, KJV)
>>>
>>> In regards to the sacrifice of Isaac it is written,...
>>>
>>> Gen 22:7-16 (KJV)
>>>
>>> 7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said,
>>> Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but whereis
>>> the
>>> lamb for a burnt offering?
>>>
>>> 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt
>>> offering: so they went both of them together.
>>>
>>> 9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an
>>> altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid
>>> him on the altar upon the wood.
>>>
>>> 10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
>>>
>>> 11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said,
>>> Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
>>>
>>> 12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing
>>> unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not
>>> withheld
>>> thy son, thine only son from me.
>>>
>>> 13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behindhim a ram
>>> caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and
>>> offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
>>
>> The Lord took me back to your context.......
>>
>> What you don't see is that Abraham still had to make an offering for his
>> sin. Let that sink in.
>
> But of course, and he did it by Faith, and God knew his heart, and so God
> honored him. ALL the men that God accounted perfect in the OT, sacrificed by
> faith of the Messiah to come. Job included. They all did it annually. And God
> provided the sacrifice, directly, in that situation, fulfilling what Abraham
> said, that the Lord would provide the sacrifice. See V13
>
>>
>>
>> Therefore, accounted righteousness (fearing God) does not equal
>> righteousness (in Christ Jesus/God). Therefore, obviously, there is a
>> difference between Abraham's "accounted as righteousness" and "God's
>> righteousness!"
>
> Incorrect. God rewarded them all their life for their continuance in him.
> Look at what Satan said about perfect Job. That he could not touch him
> because of the hedge God had around Job. Plus, the righteousness that God
> accounted to him was from God, not because of their deeds.Now matter how you
> slice and dice it, it all came from God to man.
>>
>>
>> There, I have addressed 'your context' upon 'my context in my posting.'
>
> No, you misconstrued the work of God as well as His word.
>>
>>
>> And to add to 'my context'............
>>
>> 1) Abraham still needed the Messiah to come; the Lord's (God's)
>> righteousness.
>
> And that is why he dwelt in paradise until the resurrection of Jesus, as did
> all the other saints.
>>
>>
>> 2) Fearing God is not enough; one must repent in dust and ashes for who
>> they are.
>
> Not by works under the saving Grace of Jesus, Jesus paid the price in full.
>
> Repentance is doing a 180 change, change in heart and actions.
>>
>> 3) Job and Abraham were regarded as "perfect and righteous" because they
>> were in their fear of God, but fear does not make a man choose God.
>
> Fear in such a case is reverence and total respect, knowing and recognizing
> his total authority.
>>
>> 4) What makes a man choose God is choosing Him for who He is, and for
>> that a man needs the Lord to reveal Himself personally.
>
> In part yes, but it is also due to recognition that he alone is God and we
> are not, also realizing the we can do nothing on ourselves, the we are
> sinners in need of redemption.
>>
>> 5) If that does not occur, then that man isn't all that interested in
>> God but more interested in himself.
>
> Many ‘christians’ are that way also.
>>
>>
>> 6) "God or self? That's your choice...1, 2, and 3!
>
> One must, at all times, walk in the Spirit, never looking back, as did Lots
> wife, in order to fulfill that.
>
> Paul raked Peter over the coals for the egregious errors he made, yet he
> never once condemned him to hell, etc. for them and that is something for you
> to consider when propagating your personal doctrine of making no mistakes.
> Jesus who is our High Priest in Heaven, before the throne of His Father, is
> also our advocate. Why, because he was tested in all points as we are daily.
> He knows what it is like to live as a man living in this world of evil. We
> need a good lawyer there, and he fulfills the need perfectly.
>
> If all christians never committed any sin there would be no need for an
> advocate.
>>
>>
>> Michael Christ
>
> I do appreciate your efforts in addressing some of what I said, but are you
> recanting that your self is god?

:-). You know only too well that I would never say or mean that. It was
very disingenuous of you to make that claim, and that is to put it very
mildly. Why you even have to do that is a question you should ask yourself.

It is on your head that you would contextualise that about me.

As for your replies to what I said, you were given an explanation that
you could understand if you were predisposed to do so, and that is it. I
am always open to people who ask questions about what "I" have said.

However, if they are going to simply dump their context on what I say
and argue that context, that is another thing, and I have better things
to do.

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

Michael Christ

--
God is God in all His Being.

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt
are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that
hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance (voice, the Person) of
God. When you find Him you have found the author."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul, and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do; it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

On Apr 3, 2024, Michael Christ wrote
(in article <uul6dd$digl$1@dont-email.me>):

> On 4/04/2024 1:08 pm, Robert wrote:
> > On Apr 3, 2024, Michael Christ wrote
> > (in article <uukq99$4k0o$5@dont-email.me>):
> >
> > > On 3/04/2024 2:47 am, Robert wrote:
> > > > On Apr 2, 2024, Michael Christ wrote
> > > > (in article <uugom6$2ukmh$4@dont-email.me>):
> > > >
> > > > > You will note that Abraham chose to obey God (to choose God) and
> > > > > sacrifice Isaac on an altar. And since he was going to, God stopped his
> > > > > hand.
> > > >
> > > > “And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to
> > > > Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be
> > > > thou
> > > > perfect. And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will
> > > > multiply
> > > > thee exceedingly. And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him,
> > > > saying,†(Gen 17:1-3, KJV)
> > > >
> > > > In regards to the sacrifice of Isaac it is written,...
> > > >
> > > > Gen 22:7-16 (KJV)
> > > >
> > > > 7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he
> > > > said,
> > > > Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but whereis
> > > > the
> > > > lamb for a burnt offering?
> > > >
> > > > 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt
> > > > offering: so they went both of them together.
> > > >
> > > > 9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built
> > > > an
> > > > altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid
> > > > him on the altar upon the wood.
> > > >
> > > > 10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his
> > > > son.
> > > >
> > > > 11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said,
> > > > Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
> > > >
> > > > 12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing
> > > > unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not
> > > > withheld
> > > > thy son, thine only son from me.
> > > >
> > > > 13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behindhim a ram
> > > > caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and
> > > > offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
> > >
> > > The Lord took me back to your context.......
> > >
> > > What you don't see is that Abraham still had to make an offering for his
> > > sin. Let that sink in.
> >
> > But of course, and he did it by Faith, and God knew his heart, and so God
> > honored him. ALL the men that God accounted perfect in the OT, sacrificed by
> > faith of the Messiah to come. Job included. They all did it annually. And
> > God
> > provided the sacrifice, directly, in that situation, fulfilling what Abraham
> > said, that the Lord would provide the sacrifice. See V13
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Therefore, accounted righteousness (fearing God) does not equal
> > > righteousness (in Christ Jesus/God). Therefore, obviously, there is a
> > > difference between Abraham's "accounted as righteousness" and "God's
> > > righteousness!"
> >
> > Incorrect. God rewarded them all their life for their continuance in him.
> > Look at what Satan said about perfect Job. That he could not touch him
> > because of the hedge God had around Job. Plus, the righteousness that God
> > accounted to him was from God, not because of their deeds.Now matter how you
> > slice and dice it, it all came from God to man.
> > >
> > >
> > > There, I have addressed 'your context' upon 'my context in my posting.'
> >
> > No, you misconstrued the work of God as well as His word.
> > >
> > >
> > > And to add to 'my context'............
> > >
> > > 1) Abraham still needed the Messiah to come; the Lord's (God's)
> > > righteousness.
> >
> > And that is why he dwelt in paradise until the resurrection of Jesus, as did
> > all the other saints.
> > >
> > >
> > > 2) Fearing God is not enough; one must repent in dust and ashes for who
> > > they are.
> >
> > Not by works under the saving Grace of Jesus, Jesus paid the price in full.
> >
> > Repentance is doing a 180 change, change in heart and actions.
> > >
> > > 3) Job and Abraham were regarded as "perfect and righteous" because they
> > > were in their fear of God, but fear does not make a man choose God.
> >
> > Fear in such a case is reverence and total respect, knowing and recognizing
> > his total authority.
> > >
> > > 4) What makes a man choose God is choosing Him for who He is, and for
> > > that a man needs the Lord to reveal Himself personally.
> >
> > In part yes, but it is also due to recognition that he alone is God and we
> > are not, also realizing the we can do nothing on ourselves, the we are
> > sinners in need of redemption.
> > >
> > > 5) If that does not occur, then that man isn't all that interested in
> > > God but more interested in himself.
> >
> > Many ‘christians’ are that way also.
> > >
> > >
> > > 6) "God or self? That's your choice...1, 2, and 3!
> >
> > One must, at all times, walk in the Spirit, never looking back, as did Lots
> > wife, in order to fulfill that.
> >
> > Paul raked Peter over the coals for the egregious errors he made, yet he
> > never once condemned him to hell, etc. for them and that is something for
> > you
> > to consider when propagating your personal doctrine of making no mistakes.
> > Jesus who is our High Priest in Heaven, before the throne of His Father, is
> > also our advocate. Why, because he was tested in all points as we are daily.
> > He knows what it is like to live as a man living in this world of evil. We
> > need a good lawyer there, and he fulfills the need perfectly.
> >
> > If all christians never committed any sin there would be no need for an
> > advocate.
> > >
> > >
> > > Michael Christ
> >
> > I do appreciate your efforts in addressing some of what I said, but are you
> > recanting that your self is god?
>
> > -). You know only too well that I would never say or mean that. It was
> very disingenuous of you to make that claim, and that is to put it very
> mildly. Why you even have to do that is a question you should ask yourself.
>
> It is on your head that you would contextualise that about me.
>
> As for your replies to what I said, you were given an explanation that
> you could understand if you were predisposed to do so, and that is it. I
> am always open to people who ask questions about what "I" have said.
>
> However, if they are going to simply dump their context on what I say
> and argue that context, that is another thing, and I have better things
> to do.
>
> "I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
> where God intends."
>
> Michael Christ

Do you accept the truth of Hell and the Lake of Fire and Brimstone as a place
of eternal torture or punishment?

On 4/04/2024 4:27 pm, Robert wrote:
> On Apr 3, 2024, Michael Christ wrote
> (in article <uul6dd$digl$1@dont-email.me>):
>
>> On 4/04/2024 1:08 pm, Robert wrote:
>>> On Apr 3, 2024, Michael Christ wrote
>>> (in article <uukq99$4k0o$5@dont-email.me>):
>>>
>>>> On 3/04/2024 2:47 am, Robert wrote:
>>>>> On Apr 2, 2024, Michael Christ wrote
>>>>> (in article <uugom6$2ukmh$4@dont-email.me>):
>>>>>
>>>>>> You will note that Abraham chose to obey God (to choose God) and
>>>>>> sacrifice Isaac on an altar. And since he was going to, God stopped his
>>>>>> hand.
>>>>>
>>>>> “And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to
>>>>> Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be
>>>>> thou
>>>>> perfect. And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will
>>>>> multiply
>>>>> thee exceedingly. And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him,
>>>>> saying,†(Gen 17:1-3, KJV)
>>>>>
>>>>> In regards to the sacrifice of Isaac it is written,...
>>>>>
>>>>> Gen 22:7-16 (KJV)
>>>>>
>>>>> 7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he
>>>>> said,
>>>>> Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but whereis
>>>>> the
>>>>> lamb for a burnt offering?
>>>>>
>>>>> 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt
>>>>> offering: so they went both of them together.
>>>>>
>>>>> 9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built
>>>>> an
>>>>> altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid
>>>>> him on the altar upon the wood.
>>>>>
>>>>> 10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his
>>>>> son.
>>>>>
>>>>> 11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said,
>>>>> Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
>>>>>
>>>>> 12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing
>>>>> unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not
>>>>> withheld
>>>>> thy son, thine only son from me.
>>>>>
>>>>> 13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behindhim a ram
>>>>> caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and
>>>>> offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
>>>>
>>>> The Lord took me back to your context.......
>>>>
>>>> What you don't see is that Abraham still had to make an offering for his
>>>> sin. Let that sink in.
>>>
>>> But of course, and he did it by Faith, and God knew his heart, and so God
>>> honored him. ALL the men that God accounted perfect in the OT, sacrificed by
>>> faith of the Messiah to come. Job included. They all did it annually. And
>>> God
>>> provided the sacrifice, directly, in that situation, fulfilling what Abraham
>>> said, that the Lord would provide the sacrifice. See V13
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Therefore, accounted righteousness (fearing God) does not equal
>>>> righteousness (in Christ Jesus/God). Therefore, obviously, there is a
>>>> difference between Abraham's "accounted as righteousness" and "God's
>>>> righteousness!"
>>>
>>> Incorrect. God rewarded them all their life for their continuance in him.
>>> Look at what Satan said about perfect Job. That he could not touch him
>>> because of the hedge God had around Job. Plus, the righteousness that God
>>> accounted to him was from God, not because of their deeds.Now matter how you
>>> slice and dice it, it all came from God to man.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There, I have addressed 'your context' upon 'my context in my posting.'
>>>
>>> No, you misconstrued the work of God as well as His word.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And to add to 'my context'............
>>>>
>>>> 1) Abraham still needed the Messiah to come; the Lord's (God's)
>>>> righteousness.
>>>
>>> And that is why he dwelt in paradise until the resurrection of Jesus, as did
>>> all the other saints.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2) Fearing God is not enough; one must repent in dust and ashes for who
>>>> they are.
>>>
>>> Not by works under the saving Grace of Jesus, Jesus paid the price in full.
>>>
>>> Repentance is doing a 180 change, change in heart and actions.
>>>>
>>>> 3) Job and Abraham were regarded as "perfect and righteous" because they
>>>> were in their fear of God, but fear does not make a man choose God.
>>>
>>> Fear in such a case is reverence and total respect, knowing and recognizing
>>> his total authority.
>>>>
>>>> 4) What makes a man choose God is choosing Him for who He is, and for
>>>> that a man needs the Lord to reveal Himself personally.
>>>
>>> In part yes, but it is also due to recognition that he alone is God and we
>>> are not, also realizing the we can do nothing on ourselves, the we are
>>> sinners in need of redemption.
>>>>
>>>> 5) If that does not occur, then that man isn't all that interested in
>>>> God but more interested in himself.
>>>
>>> Many ‘christians’ are that way also.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 6) "God or self? That's your choice...1, 2, and 3!
>>>
>>> One must, at all times, walk in the Spirit, never looking back, as did Lots
>>> wife, in order to fulfill that.
>>>
>>> Paul raked Peter over the coals for the egregious errors he made, yet he
>>> never once condemned him to hell, etc. for them and that is something for
>>> you
>>> to consider when propagating your personal doctrine of making no mistakes.
>>> Jesus who is our High Priest in Heaven, before the throne of His Father, is
>>> also our advocate. Why, because he was tested in all points as we are daily.
>>> He knows what it is like to live as a man living in this world of evil. We
>>> need a good lawyer there, and he fulfills the need perfectly.
>>>
>>> If all christians never committed any sin there would be no need for an
>>> advocate.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Michael Christ
>>>
>>> I do appreciate your efforts in addressing some of what I said, but are you
>>> recanting that your self is god?
>>
>>> -). You know only too well that I would never say or mean that. It was
>> very disingenuous of you to make that claim, and that is to put it very
>> mildly. Why you even have to do that is a question you should ask yourself.
>>
>> It is on your head that you would contextualise that about me.
>>
>> As for your replies to what I said, you were given an explanation that
>> you could understand if you were predisposed to do so, and that is it. I
>> am always open to people who ask questions about what "I" have said.
>>
>> However, if they are going to simply dump their context on what I say
>> and argue that context, that is another thing, and I have better things
>> to do.
>>
>> "I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
>> where God intends."
>>
>> Michael Christ
>
> Do you accept the truth of Hell and the Lake of Fire and Brimstone as a place
> of eternal torture or punishment?

You can't even ask a question that is open and that doesn't manipulate
and place your context!

Can't you see that?

You just can't help yourself!

Do I accept hell and the lake of fire and brimstone as a place of
eternal torture and punishment? See the difference? Probably not,
because you don't want to see it!

Firstly, it is not about what I accept and don't accept. The Lord has
yet to speak to me about it. I need to hear what He says about the
meaning of those words, first and foremost. Jesus is the Lord. Until
then, I have nothing to say.

"Robert" wrote in message news:0001HW.2BBE71BC000E50A0305D0C38F@news.eternal-september.org...
> Do you accept the truth of Hell and the Lake of Fire and
> Brimstone as a place of eternal torture or punishment?

To rightly understand any Bible passage one needs to
view it in context with the whole Bible.

Some churches build a doctrine on a verse or two, but
ignore others that may expose their errors. Your above
is a good example.

The "lake of fire" as a place of punishment is definitely
real as a future event. But the result thereof will be the
"second death", not eternal torture is a life that never
ends.

Second death--> Revelation 2:11, 20:6, 20:14,15, 21:8

"The wages of sin is 'death', but the gift of God is eternal
'life'." ~ Romans 6:23

Jesus says the two options are, "eternal life" or "perish".

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only
begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should
not perish but have everlasting life."

~ John 3:16

On Apr 4, 2024, Michael Christ wrote
(in article <uulr3m$f155$3@dont-email.me>):

> On 4/04/2024 4:27 pm, Robert wrote:
> > On Apr 3, 2024, Michael Christ wrote
> > (in article <uul6dd$digl$1@dont-email.me>):
> >
> > > On 4/04/2024 1:08 pm, Robert wrote:
> > > > On Apr 3, 2024, Michael Christ wrote
> > > > (in article <uukq99$4k0o$5@dont-email.me>):
> > > >
> > > > > On 3/04/2024 2:47 am, Robert wrote:
> > > > > > On Apr 2, 2024, Michael Christ wrote
> > > > > > (in article <uugom6$2ukmh$4@dont-email.me>):
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > You will note that Abraham chose to obey God (to choose God) and
> > > > > > > sacrifice Isaac on an altar. And since he was going to, God stopped his
> > > > > > > hand.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > “And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be
> > > > > > thou
> > > > > > perfect. And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will
> > > > > > multiply
> > > > > > thee exceedingly. And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him,
> > > > > > saying,†(Gen 17:1-3, KJV)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In regards to the sacrifice of Isaac it is written,...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Gen 22:7-16 (KJV)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he
> > > > > > said,
> > > > > > Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but
> > > > > > whereis
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > lamb for a burnt offering?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt
> > > > > > offering: so they went both of them together.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham
> > > > > > built
> > > > > > an
> > > > > > altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and
> > > > > > laid
> > > > > > him on the altar upon the wood.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his
> > > > > > son.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said,
> > > > > > Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any
> > > > > > thing
> > > > > > unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not
> > > > > > withheld
> > > > > > thy son, thine only son from me.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behindhim a
> > > > > > ram
> > > > > > caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and
> > > > > > offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Lord took me back to your context.......
> > > > >
> > > > > What you don't see is that Abraham still had to make an offering for his
> > > > > sin. Let that sink in.
> > > >
> > > > But of course, and he did it by Faith, and God knew his heart, and so God
> > > > honored him. ALL the men that God accounted perfect in the OT, sacrificed
> > > > by
> > > > faith of the Messiah to come. Job included. They all did it annually. And
> > > > God
> > > > provided the sacrifice, directly, in that situation, fulfilling what
> > > > Abraham
> > > > said, that the Lord would provide the sacrifice. See V13
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Therefore, accounted righteousness (fearing God) does not equal
> > > > > righteousness (in Christ Jesus/God). Therefore, obviously, there is a
> > > > > difference between Abraham's "accounted as righteousness" and "God's
> > > > > righteousness!"
> > > >
> > > > Incorrect. God rewarded them all their life for their continuance in him.
> > > > Look at what Satan said about perfect Job. That he could not touch him
> > > > because of the hedge God had around Job. Plus, the righteousness that God
> > > > accounted to him was from God, not because of their deeds.Now matter how
> > > > you
> > > > slice and dice it, it all came from God to man.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > There, I have addressed 'your context' upon 'my context in my posting.'
> > > >
> > > > No, you misconstrued the work of God as well as His word.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > And to add to 'my context'............
> > > > >
> > > > > 1) Abraham still needed the Messiah to come; the Lord's (God's)
> > > > > righteousness.
> > > >
> > > > And that is why he dwelt in paradise until the resurrection of Jesus, as
> > > > did
> > > > all the other saints.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 2) Fearing God is not enough; one must repent in dust and ashes for who
> > > > > they are.
> > > >
> > > > Not by works under the saving Grace of Jesus, Jesus paid the price in
> > > > full.
> > > >
> > > > Repentance is doing a 180 change, change in heart and actions.
> > > > >
> > > > > 3) Job and Abraham were regarded as "perfect and righteous" because they
> > > > > were in their fear of God, but fear does not make a man choose God.
> > > >
> > > > Fear in such a case is reverence and total respect, knowing and
> > > > recognizing
> > > > his total authority.
> > > > >
> > > > > 4) What makes a man choose God is choosing Him for who He is, and for
> > > > > that a man needs the Lord to reveal Himself personally.
> > > >
> > > > In part yes, but it is also due to recognition that he alone is God and we
> > > > are not, also realizing the we can do nothing on ourselves, the we are
> > > > sinners in need of redemption.
> > > > >
> > > > > 5) If that does not occur, then that man isn't all that interested in
> > > > > God but more interested in himself.
> > > >
> > > > Many ‘christians’ are that way also.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 6) "God or self? That's your choice...1, 2, and 3!
> > > >
> > > > One must, at all times, walk in the Spirit, never looking back, as did
> > > > Lots
> > > > wife, in order to fulfill that.
> > > >
> > > > Paul raked Peter over the coals for the egregious errors he made, yet he
> > > > never once condemned him to hell, etc. for them and that is something for
> > > > you
> > > > to consider when propagating your personal doctrine of making no mistakes.
> > > > Jesus who is our High Priest in Heaven, before the throne of His Father,
> > > > is
> > > > also our advocate. Why, because he was tested in all points as we are
> > > > daily.
> > > > He knows what it is like to live as a man living in this world of evil. We
> > > > need a good lawyer there, and he fulfills the need perfectly.
> > > >
> > > > If all christians never committed any sin there would be no need for an
> > > > advocate.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Michael Christ
> > > >
> > > > I do appreciate your efforts in addressing some of what I said, but are
> > > > you
> > > > recanting that your self is god?
> > >
> > > > -). You know only too well that I would never say or mean that. It was
> > > very disingenuous of you to make that claim, and that is to put it very
> > > mildly. Why you even have to do that is a question you should ask yourself.
> > >
> > > It is on your head that you would contextualise that about me.
> > >
> > > As for your replies to what I said, you were given an explanation that
> > > you could understand if you were predisposed to do so, and that is it. I
> > > am always open to people who ask questions about what "I" have said.
> > >
> > > However, if they are going to simply dump their context on what I say
> > > and argue that context, that is another thing, and I have better things
> > > to do.
> > >
> > > "I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
> > > where God intends."
> > >
> > > Michael Christ
> >
> > Do you accept the truth of Hell and the Lake of Fire and Brimstone as a
> > place
> > of eternal torture or punishment?
>
> You can't even ask a question that is open and that doesn't manipulate
> and place your context!

On Apr 4, 2024, Andrew wrote
(in article <bRvPN.455745$ET2.40734@fx12.ams4>):

> "Robert" wrote in message
> news:0001HW.2BBE71BC000E50A0305D0C38F@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> > Do you accept the truth of Hell and the Lake of Fire and
> > Brimstone as a place of eternal torture or punishment?
>
> To rightly understand any Bible passage one needs to
> view it in context with the whole Bible.
>
> Some churches build a doctrine on a verse or two, but
> ignore others that may expose their errors. Your above
> is a good example.
>
> The "lake of fire" as a place of punishment is definitely
> real as a future event. But the result thereof will be the
> "second death", not eternal torture is a life that never
> ends.

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye
cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” (Mat
25:41, KJV)

“And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous
into life eternal.” (Mat 25:46, KJV)

*everlasting.* Gr. aionios, +Mat 18:8, Some go to great length to argue that
the punishment threatened here by our Lord Jesus Christ is not truly
everlasting or never-ending. Those who argue this way do so in an effort to
bolster their mistaken notion of justice and their mistaken view of the
character of God (+**Gen 18:25 note). Some quibble over the meaning of
“eternal,” arguing from the fact that the word in Scripture is sometimes
used in a finite sense (+Psa 24:9 note), and sometimes used in an infinite
sense (Jhn 6:54 note). From this fact they justify asserting a limited sense
to the duration of everlasting punishment. The answer to this objection is
simple. Jesus spoke of two ages, this age, and the age to come. In the King
James Version these terms are translated “this world” and “the world to
come” in Mat 12:32. When the word “eternal” is applied to things
restricted to this age it is used in a finite or limited sense. When
“eternal” has reference to things in “the age to come,” it is used in
an infinite sense. Clearly God is eternal and will continue to exist in the
age to come. Just as eternal life and eternal punishment pertain to and exist
in the age to come, so “eternal” in reference to them is used in the
infinite, never-ending sense. +*Mat 18:8, Psa 52:5; Psa 92:7, **Isa 33:14;
Isa 38:18, +*Dan 12:2, *Mrk 3:29, 2Th 1:9, Heb 6:2, *Rev 14:11.

*punishment.* On the subject of eternal punishment, this greatest classic
doctrinal text in the Bible establishes absolutely the doctrine of eternal
punishment for the lost or unsaved. Eternal punishment for the lost is as
everlasting as eternal life will be for the saved. Unpleasant as this Bible
doctrine is to some who think otherwise, eternal punishment is eternal not
merely in effect or result, but in duration. If we can successfully argue
that “everlasting” in the phrase "everlasting punishment" does not mean
“eternal” in the same sense as "eternal" in the phrase "eternal life"
does, language has lost its ability to communicate accurate doctrine in the
Bible. But this is not the case at all. In this verse the words
“eternal” and “everlasting” translate the same Greek word. Elsewhere,
this very same Greek word is used to describe God as eternal in Rom 16:26,
Furthermore, grammatically, these words are used here in two connected
parallel clauses in the same sentence, so the meaning for one must be the
same as the meaning for the other. Don’t kid yourself by falling for false
doctrine which argues otherwise. It is most dangerous to tamper with or
diminish the warnings given by our Lord Jesus Christ.T567, *Mat 25:41, +**Mat
10:28 note. +*Mat 13:30; Mat 13:38; Mat 13:40; Mat 13:42; Mat 26:24, +*1Ch
28:9 (T555). +Job 8:13 (T573-1). +Job 27:8 (T572). +**Psa 9:17; *Psa 21:9,
+*Dan 12:2, Mrk 3:29; *Mrk 9:43; *Mrk 9:44; *Mrk 9:46; *Mrk 9:48; *Mrk 9:49;
Mrk 14:21, Luk 3:17; +Luk 9:24 (T554). +*Luk 16:26 (T390). **Jhn 3:36; *Jhn
5:29, Act 24:15, *Rom 2:5-9; Rom 11:22, **2Co 5:11; +2Co 6:2 (T553). Php
3:18-19, **2Th 1:7-9, Heb 10:31, +Jas 1:15 (T287). Jud 1:6-7; Jud 1:13, **Rev
14:9-11; Rev 19:20; **Rev 20:10; **Rev 20:15; +*Rev 21:8.

The above is taken from the notes of the UCRT Cross References.

“And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they
have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and
whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.” (Rev 14:11, KJV)

This is a short compilation of the eternal never ending torment that Jesus
warns us against. Just look at all the people in hell right now, near 6000
years worth of perished souls, all awaiting the final judgment. The second
death, which as one can see from the above notes and referenced scripture is
a certainty.

There is a heaven to gain and a place of eternal torment to shun.

>
>
> Second death--> Revelation 2:11, 20:6, 20:14,15, 21:8
>
> "The wages of sin is 'death', but the gift of God is eternal
> 'life'." ~ Romans 6:23
>
> Jesus says the two options are, "eternal life" or "perish".
>
> "For God so loved the world that He gave His only
> begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should
> not perish but have everlasting life."
>
> > John 3:16

Robert wrote:

> On Apr 4, 2024, Andrew wrote
> (in article <bRvPN.455745$ET2.40734@fx12.ams4>):
>
> > "Robert" wrote in message
> > news:0001HW.2BBE71BC000E50A0305D0C38F@news.eternal-september.org...
> >
> > > Do you accept the truth of Hell and the Lake of Fire and
> > > Brimstone as a place of eternal torture or punishment?
> >
> > To rightly understand any Bible passage one needs to
> > view it in context with the whole Bible.
> >
> > Some churches build a doctrine on a verse or two, but
> > ignore others that may expose their errors. Your above
> > is a good example.
> >
> > The "lake of fire" as a place of punishment is definitely
> > real as a future event. But the result thereof will be the
> > "second death", not eternal torture is a life that never
> > ends.

>
> “Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me,
> ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his
> angels:” (Mat 25:41, KJV)
>
> “And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the
> righteous into life eternal.” (Mat 25:46, KJV)
>
> *everlasting.* Gr. aionios, +Mat 18:8, Some go to great length to
> argue that the punishment threatened here by our Lord Jesus Christ is
> not truly everlasting or never-ending. Those who argue this way do so
> in an effort to bolster their mistaken notion of justice and their
> mistaken view of the character of God (+**Gen 18:25 note). Some
> quibble over the meaning of “eternal,” arguing from the fact that the
> word in Scripture is sometimes used in a finite sense (+Psa 24:9
> note), and sometimes used in an infinite sense (Jhn 6:54 note). From
> this fact they justify asserting a limited sense to the duration of
> everlasting punishment. The answer to this objection is simple. Jesus
> spoke of two ages, this age, and the age to come. In the King James
> Version these terms are translated “this world” and “the world to
> come” in Mat 12:32. When the word “eternal” is applied to things
> restricted to this age it is used in a finite or limited sense. When
> “eternal” has reference to things in “the age to come,” it is used in
> an infinite sense. Clearly God is eternal and will continue to exist
> in the age to come. Just as eternal life and eternal punishment
> pertain to and exist in the age to come, so “eternal” in reference to
> them is used in the infinite, never-ending sense. +*Mat 18:8, Psa
> 52:5; Psa 92:7, **Isa 33:14; Isa 38:18, +*Dan 12:2, *Mrk 3:29, 2Th
> 1:9, Heb 6:2, *Rev 14:11.
>
> *punishment.* On the subject of eternal punishment, this greatest
> classic doctrinal text in the Bible establishes absolutely the
> doctrine of eternal punishment for the lost or unsaved. Eternal
> punishment for the lost is as everlasting as eternal life will be for
> the saved. Unpleasant as this Bible doctrine is to some who think
> otherwise, eternal punishment is eternal not merely in effect or
> result, but in duration. If we can successfully argue that
> “everlasting” in the phrase "everlasting punishment" does not mean
> “eternal” in the same sense as "eternal" in the phrase "eternal life"
> does, language has lost its ability to communicate accurate doctrine
> in the Bible. But this is not the case at all. In this verse the
> words “eternal” and “everlasting” translate the same Greek word.
> Elsewhere, this very same Greek word is used to describe God as
> eternal in Rom 16:26, Furthermore, grammatically, these words are
> used here in two connected parallel clauses in the same sentence, so
> the meaning for one must be the same as the meaning for the other.
> Don’t kid yourself by falling for false doctrine which argues
> otherwise. It is most dangerous to tamper with or diminish the
> warnings given by our Lord Jesus Christ.T567, *Mat 25:41, +**Mat
> 10:28 note. +*Mat 13:30; Mat 13:38; Mat 13:40; Mat 13:42; Mat 26:24,
> +*1Ch 28:9 (T555). +Job 8:13 (T573-1). +Job 27:8 (T572). +**Psa 9:17;
> *Psa 21:9, +*Dan 12:2, Mrk 3:29; *Mrk 9:43; *Mrk 9:44; *Mrk 9:46;
> *Mrk 9:48; *Mrk 9:49; Mrk 14:21, Luk 3:17; +Luk 9:24 (T554). +*Luk
> 16:26 (T390). **Jhn 3:36; *Jhn 5:29, Act 24:15, *Rom 2:5-9; Rom
> 11:22, **2Co 5:11; +2Co 6:2 (T553). Php 3:18-19, **2Th 1:7-9, Heb
> 10:31, +Jas 1:15 (T287). Jud 1:6-7; Jud 1:13, **Rev 14:9-11; Rev
> 19:20; **Rev 20:10; **Rev 20:15; +*Rev 21:8.
>
> The above is taken from the notes of the UCRT Cross References.
>
> “And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and
> they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image,
> and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.” (Rev 14:11, KJV)
>
> This is a short compilation of the eternal never ending torment that
> Jesus warns us against. Just look at all the people in hell right
> now, near 6000 years worth of perished souls, all awaiting the final
> judgment. The second death, which as one can see from the above notes
> and referenced scripture is a certainty.
>
> There is a heaven to gain and a place of eternal torment to shun.
>

And if you don't kiss Hank's ass, he'll kick the shit out of you. While
I'm counting my money and laughing. That's why I'm urging you to kiss
Hank's ass with me now, Robert, before it's too late.

https://youtu.be/zaFZQBb2srM

On 5/04/2024 2:04 am, Robert wrote:
> On Apr 4, 2024, Michael Christ wrote
> (in article <uulr3m$f155$3@dont-email.me>):
>
>> On 4/04/2024 4:27 pm, Robert wrote:
>>> On Apr 3, 2024, Michael Christ wrote
>>> (in article <uul6dd$digl$1@dont-email.me>):
>>>
>>>> On 4/04/2024 1:08 pm, Robert wrote:
>>>>> On Apr 3, 2024, Michael Christ wrote
>>>>> (in article <uukq99$4k0o$5@dont-email.me>):
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/04/2024 2:47 am, Robert wrote:
>>>>>>> On Apr 2, 2024, Michael Christ wrote
>>>>>>> (in article <uugom6$2ukmh$4@dont-email.me>):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You will note that Abraham chose to obey God (to choose God) and
>>>>>>>> sacrifice Isaac on an altar. And since he was going to, God stopped his
>>>>>>>> hand.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> “And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be
>>>>>>> thou
>>>>>>> perfect. And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will
>>>>>>> multiply
>>>>>>> thee exceedingly. And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him,
>>>>>>> saying,†(Gen 17:1-3, KJV)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In regards to the sacrifice of Isaac it is written,...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gen 22:7-16 (KJV)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he
>>>>>>> said,
>>>>>>> Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but
>>>>>>> whereis
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> lamb for a burnt offering?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt
>>>>>>> offering: so they went both of them together.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham
>>>>>>> built
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>> altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and
>>>>>>> laid
>>>>>>> him on the altar upon the wood.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his
>>>>>>> son.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said,
>>>>>>> Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any
>>>>>>> thing
>>>>>>> unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not
>>>>>>> withheld
>>>>>>> thy son, thine only son from me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behindhim a
>>>>>>> ram
>>>>>>> caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and
>>>>>>> offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Lord took me back to your context.......
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What you don't see is that Abraham still had to make an offering for his
>>>>>> sin. Let that sink in.
>>>>>
>>>>> But of course, and he did it by Faith, and God knew his heart, and so God
>>>>> honored him. ALL the men that God accounted perfect in the OT, sacrificed
>>>>> by
>>>>> faith of the Messiah to come. Job included. They all did it annually. And
>>>>> God
>>>>> provided the sacrifice, directly, in that situation, fulfilling what
>>>>> Abraham
>>>>> said, that the Lord would provide the sacrifice. See V13
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Therefore, accounted righteousness (fearing God) does not equal
>>>>>> righteousness (in Christ Jesus/God). Therefore, obviously, there is a
>>>>>> difference between Abraham's "accounted as righteousness" and "God's
>>>>>> righteousness!"
>>>>>
>>>>> Incorrect. God rewarded them all their life for their continuance in him.
>>>>> Look at what Satan said about perfect Job. That he could not touch him
>>>>> because of the hedge God had around Job. Plus, the righteousness that God
>>>>> accounted to him was from God, not because of their deeds.Now matter how
>>>>> you
>>>>> slice and dice it, it all came from God to man.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There, I have addressed 'your context' upon 'my context in my posting.'
>>>>>
>>>>> No, you misconstrued the work of God as well as His word.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And to add to 'my context'............
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) Abraham still needed the Messiah to come; the Lord's (God's)
>>>>>> righteousness.
>>>>>
>>>>> And that is why he dwelt in paradise until the resurrection of Jesus, as
>>>>> did
>>>>> all the other saints.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) Fearing God is not enough; one must repent in dust and ashes for who
>>>>>> they are.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not by works under the saving Grace of Jesus, Jesus paid the price in
>>>>> full.
>>>>>
>>>>> Repentance is doing a 180 change, change in heart and actions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3) Job and Abraham were regarded as "perfect and righteous" because they
>>>>>> were in their fear of God, but fear does not make a man choose God.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fear in such a case is reverence and total respect, knowing and
>>>>> recognizing
>>>>> his total authority.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4) What makes a man choose God is choosing Him for who He is, and for
>>>>>> that a man needs the Lord to reveal Himself personally.
>>>>>
>>>>> In part yes, but it is also due to recognition that he alone is God and we
>>>>> are not, also realizing the we can do nothing on ourselves, the we are
>>>>> sinners in need of redemption.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 5) If that does not occur, then that man isn't all that interested in
>>>>>> God but more interested in himself.
>>>>>
>>>>> Many ‘christians’ are that way also.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 6) "God or self? That's your choice...1, 2, and 3!
>>>>>
>>>>> One must, at all times, walk in the Spirit, never looking back, as did
>>>>> Lots
>>>>> wife, in order to fulfill that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul raked Peter over the coals for the egregious errors he made, yet he
>>>>> never once condemned him to hell, etc. for them and that is something for
>>>>> you
>>>>> to consider when propagating your personal doctrine of making no mistakes.
>>>>> Jesus who is our High Priest in Heaven, before the throne of His Father,
>>>>> is
>>>>> also our advocate. Why, because he was tested in all points as we are
>>>>> daily.
>>>>> He knows what it is like to live as a man living in this world of evil. We
>>>>> need a good lawyer there, and he fulfills the need perfectly.
>>>>>
>>>>> If all christians never committed any sin there would be no need for an
>>>>> advocate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Michael Christ
>>>>>
>>>>> I do appreciate your efforts in addressing some of what I said, but are
>>>>> you
>>>>> recanting that your self is god?
>>>>
>>>>> -). You know only too well that I would never say or mean that. It was
>>>> very disingenuous of you to make that claim, and that is to put it very
>>>> mildly. Why you even have to do that is a question you should ask yourself.
>>>>
>>>> It is on your head that you would contextualise that about me.
>>>>
>>>> As for your replies to what I said, you were given an explanation that
>>>> you could understand if you were predisposed to do so, and that is it. I
>>>> am always open to people who ask questions about what "I" have said.
>>>>
>>>> However, if they are going to simply dump their context on what I say
>>>> and argue that context, that is another thing, and I have better things
>>>> to do.
>>>>
>>>> "I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
>>>> where God intends."
>>>>
>>>> Michael Christ

"Ted" wrote in message news:w3DPN.509820$vFZa.169044@fx13.iad...
> Robert wrote:
<<>>
>> There is a heaven to gain and a place of eternal torment to shun.
>
> And if you don't kiss Hank's ass, he'll kick the shit out of you. While
> I'm counting my money and laughing. That's why I'm urging you to kiss
> Hank's ass with me now, Robert, before it's too late.

There is indeed a heaven to win and a hell to shun.

Chose one.

Jesus paid the price. You may have life eternal in
the future realm of peace, glory and eternal love..

OR, you may continue in sin and pay the penalty
of it yourself.. Either way, your life here is short.

"Robert" wrote in message news:0001HW.2BBEFD5E00023C6E30F56438F@news.eternal-september.org...
> Andrew wrote:
>> "Robert" wrote:
>>
>> > Do you accept the truth of Hell and the Lake of Fire and
>> > Brimstone as a place of eternal torture or punishment?
>>
>> To rightly understand any Bible passage one needs to
>> view it in context with the whole Bible.
>>
>> Some churches build a doctrine on a verse or two, but
>> ignore others that may expose their errors. Your above
>> is a good example.
>>
>> The "lake of fire" as a place of punishment is definitely
>> real as a future event. But the result thereof will be the
>> "second death", not eternal torture is a life that never
>> ends.
>
> “Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye
> cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” (Mat
> 25:41, KJV)
>
> “And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous
> into life eternal.” (Mat 25:46, KJV)

According to the Bible, the "everlasting punishment" will
be everlasting *death*. It is the "second death" which will
be eternal.

This is what the Bible says. The honest student will want
to know that, and not cling to a pet doctrine.

> *everlasting.* Gr. aionios, +Mat 18:8, Some go to great length to argue that
> the punishment threatened here by our Lord Jesus Christ is not truly
> everlasting or never-ending.

It is indeed "everlasting AND never ending".

It is everlasting death, with no future resurrection.

"The wages of sin is DEATH'" ~ Romans 6:23

And it will be by fire.

"Let the sinners be consumed out of the
earth, and let the wicked be no more."
~ Psalm 104:35

"The destruction of the transgressors and
of the sinners shall be together, and they
that forsake the LORD shall be consumed.
~ Isaiah 1:28

"Fear not them which kill the body, but
are not able to kill the soul: but rather
fear Him which is able to destroy both
soul and body in hell."~Matthew 10:28

Jesus says that they are going to..--> be
*destroyed*.

Both body and soul ~ destroyed in hell.

According to Jesus. And Jesus is the
One who knows.

> Those who argue this way do so in an effort to
> bolster their mistaken notion of justice and their mistaken view of the
> character of God (+**Gen 18:25 note). Some quibble over the meaning of
> “eternal,” arguing from the fact that the word in Scripture is sometimes
> used in a finite sense (+Psa 24:9 note), and sometimes used in an infinite
> sense (Jhn 6:54 note). From this fact they justify asserting a limited sense
> to the duration of everlasting punishment.

The "everlasting punishment" is not "limited".

But it is *not* everlasting punishing.

> The answer to this objection is simple.

It is sample when one sees it in context
with the whole Bible.

> Jesus spoke of two ages, this age, and the age to come. In the King
> James Version these terms are translated “this world” and “the world to
> come” in Mat 12:32. When the word “eternal” is applied to things
> restricted to this age it is used in a finite or limited sense. When
> “eternal” has reference to things in “the age to come,” it is used in
> an infinite sense. Clearly God is eternal and will continue to exist in the
> age to come. Just as eternal life and eternal punishment pertain to and exist
> in the age to come, so “eternal” in reference to them is used in the
> infinite, never-ending sense.

That would be false reasoning ~ ignoring the principle
of examining an issue in context with the whole Bible.

> +*Mat 18:8, Psa 52:5; Psa 92:7, **Isa 33:14;
> Isa 38:18, +*Dan 12:2, *Mrk 3:29, 2Th 1:9, Heb 6:2, *Rev 14:11.
>
> *punishment.* On the subject of eternal punishment, this greatest classic
> doctrinal text in the Bible establishes absolutely the doctrine of eternal
> punishment for the lost or unsaved. Eternal punishment for the lost is as
> everlasting as eternal life will be for the saved.

That is true. But it is eternal punishment, not eternal punishing.

The eternal punishment for the lost will be the *second death*
which will be eternal.

To say otherwise would be to contradict Jesus, which
we don't want to do . To turn away from Jesus would
be to turn away from truth.

Jesus said the two options are, "eternal life" or "perish".

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only
begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should
not PERISH but have everlasting life." ~ John 3:16

Jesus is correct. The commentary you cite ~ is incorrect.

> Unpleasant as this Bible
> doctrine is to some who think otherwise, eternal punishment is eternal not
> merely in effect or result, but in duration.

You are citing a commentary that ~ contradicts the words of Jesus.

> If we can successfully argue
> that “everlasting” in the phrase "everlasting punishment" does not mean
> “eternal” in the same sense as "eternal" in the phrase "eternal life"
> does, language has lost its ability to communicate accurate doctrine in the
> Bible.

It IS ''eternal''.punishment, not eternal punishing.

Otherwise one ignores the rest of the Bible.

> But this is not the case at all. In this verse the words
> “eternal” and “everlasting” translate the same Greek word. Elsewhere,
> this very same Greek word is used to describe God as eternal in Rom 16:26,
> Furthermore, grammatically, these words are used here in two connected
> parallel clauses in the same sentence, so the meaning for one must be the
> same as the meaning for the other. Don’t kid yourself by falling for false
> doctrine which argues otherwise. It is most dangerous to tamper with or
> diminish the warnings given by our Lord Jesus Christ.T567, *Mat 25:41, +**Mat
> 10:28 note. +*Mat 13:30; Mat 13:38; Mat 13:40; Mat 13:42; Mat 26:24, +*1Ch
> 28:9 (T555). +Job 8:13 (T573-1). +Job 27:8 (T572). +**Psa 9:17; *Psa 21:9,
> +*Dan 12:2, Mrk 3:29; *Mrk 9:43; *Mrk 9:44; *Mrk 9:46; *Mrk 9:48; *Mrk 9:49;
> Mrk 14:21, Luk 3:17; +Luk 9:24 (T554). +*Luk 16:26 (T390). **Jhn 3:36; *Jhn
> 5:29, Act 24:15, *Rom 2:5-9; Rom 11:22, **2Co 5:11; +2Co 6:2 (T553). Php
> 3:18-19, **2Th 1:7-9, Heb 10:31, +Jas 1:15 (T287). Jud 1:6-7; Jud 1:13, **Rev
> 14:9-11; Rev 19:20; **Rev 20:10; **Rev 20:15; +*Rev 21:8.
>
> The above is taken from the notes of the UCRT Cross References.
>
> “And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever:

The "smoke" is here used as a symbol
of the effect or result of their torment.

Compare with Isaiah 34:10.

"the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from
generation to generation it shall lie waste;"
~ Isaiah 34:10.

> and they
> have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and
> whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.” (Rev 14:11, KJV)

Eventually they (the above) are ""devoured"" by fire from God. (Rev 20:9).

> This is a short compilation of the eternal never ending torment that Jesus
> warns us against. Just look at all the people in hell right now, near 6000
> years worth of perished souls, all awaiting the final judgment. The second
> death, which as one can see from the above notes and referenced scripture is
> a certainty.
>
> There is a heaven to gain and a place of eternal torment to shun.>
>>
>> Second death--> Revelation 2:11, 20:6, 20:14,15, 21:8
>>
>> "The wages of sin is 'death', but
>> the gift of God is eternal 'life'."
>> ~ Romans 6:23
>>
>> Jesus says the two options are, "eternal life" or "perish".
>>
>> "For God so loved the world that He gave His only
>> begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should
>> not --perish-- but have everlasting life."
>> John 3:16

Thank you Robert for your comments and your kind
attention to this issue.

On Apr 4, 2024, Andrew wrote
(in article <6FJPN.231668$gq2.150895@fx02.ams4>):

> "Robert" wrote in message
> news:0001HW.2BBEFD5E00023C6E30F56438F@news.eternal-september.org...
> > Andrew wrote:
> > > "Robert" wrote:
> > >
> > > > Do you accept the truth of Hell and the Lake of Fire and
> > > > Brimstone as a place of eternal torture or punishment?
> > >
> > > To rightly understand any Bible passage one needs to
> > > view it in context with the whole Bible.
> > >
> > > Some churches build a doctrine on a verse or two, but
> > > ignore others that may expose their errors. Your above
> > > is a good example.
> > >
> > > The "lake of fire" as a place of punishment is definitely
> > > real as a future event. But the result thereof will be the
> > > "second death", not eternal torture is a life that never
> > > ends.
> >
> > “Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye
> > cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:”
> > (Mat
> > 25:41, KJV)
> >
> > “And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous
> > into life eternal.” (Mat 25:46, KJV)
>
> According to the Bible, the "everlasting punishment" will
> be everlasting *death*. It is the "second death" which will
> be eternal.
>
> This is what the Bible says. The honest student will want
> to know that, and not cling to a pet doctrine.

Andrew. Think a minute. When Adam committed sin, what was the curse of that
sin?

“But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of
it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.” (Gen
2:17, KJV)

What part of him died? For in the day that he eats the fruit he surely,
beyond certainty, die.

Is not everyone since, dead to God that lives in sin? Adam was created pure
and without sin, But when he willfully sinned, he lost his relationship with
God. From then on he like any man before the resurrection of Jesus, had to
offer up a sin sacrifice in order to be forgiven. The was a price that needed
to be paid for sin in order to be put into a right relationship with God.

Those that did not sacrifice to the Heavenly Father would die in their sinful
state. To hell they would go, a holding place for all unforgiven sinners, in
that place of suffering and great heat, in the pit of the deep, as described
in Job there they suffer while awaiting the resurrection of all souls for the
white throne judgment spoken of in the book of the revelation. From there
they are tossed into the lake of fire and brimstone for as long as eternity
exists. Tortured according to the level of their sins.

God is a Just God. Jesus paid severely for the sins of mankind, all mankind,
and each man has had at least one chance to acknowledge God and believe in
him, so to each according to their actions. What justice would it be to just
cease to exist as the JW would have it? Why does the blood of a murdered man
cry out to God for a serving of justice on the offender?

Take the case of a man like Hitler, at whose word many were tortured, killed,
used as human ginny pigs. (SP). Millions at his hands, and then the lives
lost in the war because of him. Is it justice to just die and cease to have
any type of existence? What about child abusers, rapists, so on and so forth.
Is it just that they pay nothing for the pain they extracted? And did so
willingly and without remorse? Yes, they could be forgiven by God if they
were sincere and repented, but God knows the thoughts and intents of our
hearts, and whether of not they are trying to run a con job on God.

You see, everyone whose name is not in the book of life will go there. Their
Spirit and Soul which exists forever, will dwell either in heaven or hell.
And we certainly all have enough testimonies of many who died and went to
either heaven or hell and then were returned to life in their original body,
with tales of people they have seen in both places, in the spirit, and not in
the flesh, which we will not have until our resurrection and transformation
of out bodies, so that we will be like Jesus, in his likeness, forever and
ever, Even King Saul when he asked to woman to raise Samuel from the dead, he
asked her what he was dressed like, and he was in his usual identifying garb,
thus assuring Saul that it was the correct spirit she called up for the dead.

We also have the stories from Jesus of those who have long since been dead,
from Paradise and from hell, and the were in spirit mode, each of the parties
involved, not in the flesh as that had been buried in the ground and long
since turned to dust.

Even Paul taught that to be absent from the body is to be present with the
Lord. What is it that left and went to be with Jesus? Not the Body, since
that has not yet been redeemed and will not until the day of our
resurrection.

I can assure you, with the life style I was living, if there were no God of
justice, I would have continued to live as I pleased without consideration of
others, unless they benefitted me in some way. What’s the point of trying
to live as a goodie, goodie, if I just ceased to exist in the end like any
other animal? He who dies with the most toys wins, as it were. Yeah, I have
gotten flack for saying that with full honesty, but why lie about it. Now I
have met Jesus, and I believe in him, and he has forgiven me for all my sins,
and he gave me peace that passes all human understanding. I am grateful for
that, and nowhere near as grateful as I would like to me, as he has paid full
ransom for me and I could never return that favor in this world.

>
> > *everlasting.* Gr. aionios, +Mat 18:8, Some go to great length to argue that
> > the punishment threatened here by our Lord Jesus Christ is not truly
> > everlasting or never-ending.
>
> It is indeed "everlasting AND never ending".
>
> It is everlasting death, with no future resurrection.
>
> "The wages of sin is DEATH'" ~ Romans 6:23
>
> And it will be by fire.
>
> "Let the sinners be consumed out of the
> earth, and let the wicked be no more."
> > Psalm 104:35

Out of ’this’ world, get it? Is not the believer a citizen of two world?
>
> "The destruction of the transgressors and
> of the sinners shall be together, and they
> that forsake the LORD shall be consumed.
> > Isaiah 1:28
>
> "Fear not them which kill the body, but
> are not able to kill the soul: but rather
> fear Him which is able to destroy both
> soul and body in hell."~Matthew 10:28
>
> Jesus says that they are going to..--> be
> *destroyed*.
>
> Both body and soul ~ destroyed in hell.

destroy. Gr. apollumi, +Mat 2:13, This Greek word never means annihilate, but
rather means to render unsuitable for the use originally intended. A "lost"
coin is not annihilated; neither are the "lost sheep of the house of Israel,"
nor those Jesus came to seek and to save (Mat 18:11). In this very chapter
(Mat 10:39), the loss or gain of psychē is spoken of as occurring in this
present life, an impossibility if apollumi meansannihilation. Note the order
of statement in Luk 12:5, Follow carefully Paul’s logic in 1Co 15:16-18,
and note that "perished" in verse 18 (1Co 15:18) is apollumi, the same word
as here. Paul argues that if Christ has not truly been raised from the dead,
then those that are asleep in Christ are perished; since Christ is raised
from the dead, the dead in Christ are not perished. Nor are the dead who are
not in Christ annihilated, for they shall yet be resurrected and judged (Jhn
5:28-29). To suggest that all persons who have died are non-existent until
the resurrection, but are kept "alive" in God’s memory (+*Job 14:13 x), has
not a shred of Biblical evidence to support it, and is contrary to Biblical
teaching, for then upon resurrection it would not be the same person (note
Christ’s own emphatic statement of his personal bodily resurrection
identity, Luk 24:39), but a reconstituted copy of the person. Since only
bodies are resurrected, not spirits or souls, the whole materialist viewpoint
is fallacious in positing a break in the continuity of conscious existence of
the person. The materialist viewpoint was held even more consistently by the
Sadducees, a viewpoint utterly demolished by our Lord’s answer to them in
Mat 22:23-32. Mat 10:6 g, Mat 10:39, Mat 9:17; Mat 18:11, Job 19:10, Ecc 5:6,
+*Isa 26:14; +*Isa 38:18; *Isa 47:14, Jer 4:20, +*Ezk 18:4 note, **Ezk 18:20
note. Hos 13:9-10, +Luk 9:24; Luk 10:15; Luk 19:10 g. %1Co 5:5; 1Co 15:16-18;
Again from UCRT

>
> According to Jesus. And Jesus is the
> One who knows.

Jesus said,

“But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness,
but is in danger of eternal damnation:” (Mrk 3:29, KJV)

"Robert" wrote in message news:0001HW.2BBFE23F0015D52A306CDC38F@news.eternal-september.org...
> Andrew wrote
>> "Robert" wrote:
>> > Andrew wrote:
>> > > "Robert" wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Do you accept the truth of Hell and the Lake of Fire and
>> > > > Brimstone as a place of eternal torture or punishment?
>> > >
>> > > To rightly understand any Bible passage one needs to
>> > > view it in context with the whole Bible.
>> > >
>> > > Some churches build a doctrine on a verse or two, but
>> > > ignore others that may expose their errors. Your above
>> > > is a good example.
>> > >
>> > > The "lake of fire" as a place of punishment is definitely
>> > > real as a future event. But the result thereof will be the
>> > > "second death", not eternal torture in a life that never
>> > > ends.
>> >
>> > “Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye
>> > cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:”
>> > (Mat 25:41, KJV)
>> >
>> > “And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous
>> > into life eternal.” (Mat 25:46, KJV)
>>
>> According to the Bible, the "everlasting punishment" will
>> be everlasting *death*. It is the "second death" which will
>> be eternal.
>>
>> This is what the Bible says. The honest student will want
>> to know that, and not cling to a pet doctrine.
>
> Andrew. Think a minute. When Adam committed sin, what was the curse of that
> sin?
>
> “But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of
> it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.” (Gen
> 2:17, KJV)
>
> What part of him died? For in the day that he eats the fruit he surely,
> beyond certainty, die.
>
> Is not everyone since, dead to God that lives in sin? Adam was created pure
> and without sin, But when he willfully sinned, he lost his relationship with
> God. From then on he like any man before the resurrection of Jesus, had to
> offer up a sin sacrifice in order to be forgiven.

No. You believe in forgiveness by works. Which is neither biblical nor
Christian. The sacrificial system was given by God as an illustration to
show us how God deals with sin. The animal sacrifices were types that
pointed to the sacrifice of Jesus who was the antitype, by whose merits
alone is there forgiveness and full salvation.

Before the cross they looked forward to the Savior. After the cross we
look back. Jesus is the center of the whole plan of redemption which
covers all dispensations.

>The was a price that needed
> to be paid for sin in order to be put into a right relationship with God.

In the plan of salvation, the price is paid by ~ Jesus.

> Those that did not sacrifice to the Heavenly Father would die in their sinful
> state.

Salvation by 'works' again.

>To hell they would go, a holding place for all unforgiven sinners, in
> that place of suffering and great heat, in the pit of the deep, as described
> in Job there they suffer while awaiting the resurrection of all souls for the
> white throne judgment spoken of in the book of the revelation. From there
> they are tossed into the lake of fire and brimstone for as long as eternity
> exists. Tortured according to the level of their sins.

"Tortured for as long as eternity exists"..a false teaching; unbiblical and
contrary to the plain teaching of Jesus, as I pointed out in my post. So it
would be futile to cite it to you again.

> God is a Just God. Jesus paid severely for the sins of mankind, all mankind,
> and each man has had at least one chance to acknowledge God and believe in
> him, so to each according to their actions. What justice would it be to just
> cease to exist

That is not biblical, neither is it what I said or believe.

> as the JW would have it? Why does the blood of a murdered man
> cry out to God for a serving of justice on the offender?
>
> Take the case of a man like Hitler, at whose word many were tortured, killed,
> used as human ginny pigs. (SP). Millions at his hands, and then the lives
> lost in the war because of him. Is it justice to just die and cease to have
> any type of existence?

That is not biblical. Neither is it what I said or believe.

> What about child abusers, rapists, so on and so forth.
> Is it just that they pay nothing for the pain they extracted?

That is not biblical. Neither is it what I said or believe.

> And did so
> willingly and without remorse? Yes, they could be forgiven by God if they
> were sincere and repented, but God knows the thoughts and intents of our
> hearts, and whether of not they are trying to run a con job on God.
>
> You see, everyone whose name is not in the book of life will go there.

To the "lake of fire" IS what the Bible says.

"And whosoever was not found written in the
book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
~ Revlation 20:15

>Their Spirit and Soul which exists forever,

Jesus said, body and soul are *destroyed*..

"fear Him which is able to destroy
both soul and body in hell.

"~Matthew 10:28

I cited this to you before.This is what Jesus
said. Apparently you think you know better
about this than Jesus.

By rejecting His words, one is rejecting Him.

> will dwell either in heaven or hell.
> And we certainly all have enough testimonies of many who died and went to
> either heaven or hell and then were returned to life in their original body,
> with tales of people they have seen in both places, in the spirit, and not in
> the flesh, which we will not have until our resurrection and transformation
> of out bodies, so that we will be like Jesus, in his likeness, forever and
> ever, Even King Saul when he asked to woman to raise Samuel from the dead, he
> asked her what he was dressed like, and he was in his usual identifying garb,
> thus assuring Saul that it was the correct spirit she called up for the dead.

The "woman" you refer to was a witch. who conjured up a familiar spirit
disguised as Samuel. This was all forbidden by God under the theocracy.

> We also have the stories from Jesus of those who have long since been dead,
> from Paradise and from hell, and the were in spirit mode, each of the parties
> involved, not in the flesh as that had been buried in the ground and long
> since turned to dust.
>
> Even Paul taught that to be absent from the body is to be present with the
> Lord. What is it that left and went to be with Jesus? Not the Body, since
> that has not yet been redeemed and will not until the day of our
> resurrection.
>
> I can assure you, with the life style I was living, if there were no God of
> justice, I would have continued to live as I pleased without consideration of
> others, unless they benefitted me in some way. What’s the point of trying
> to live as a goodie, goodie, if I just ceased to exist in the end like any
> other animal?

Then please eplain your motivation.

> He who dies with the most toys wins, as it were. Yeah, I have
> gotten flack for saying that with full honesty, but why lie about it. Now I
> have met Jesus, and I believe in him, and he has forgiven me for all my sins,
> and he gave me peace that passes all human understanding. I am grateful for
> that, and nowhere near as grateful as I would like to me, as he has paid full
> ransom for me and I could never return that favor in this world.

In light of what you said above about Jesus, why do you -not- accept His word?

By rejecting His words one is rejecting Him.

>> > *everlasting.* Gr. aionios, +Mat 18:8, Some go to great length to argue that
>> > the punishment threatened here by our Lord Jesus Christ is not truly
>> > everlasting or never-ending.
>>
>> It is indeed "everlasting AND never ending".
>>
>> It is everlasting death, with no future resurrection.
>>
>> "The wages of sin is DEATH'" ~ Romans 6:23
>>
>> And it will be by fire.
>>
>> "Let the sinners be consumed out of the
>> earth, and let the wicked be no more."
>> Psalm 104:35
>
> Out of ’this’ world, get it? Is not the believer a citizen of two world?
>>
>> "The destruction of the transgressors and
>> of the sinners shall be together, and they
>> that forsake the LORD shall be consumed.
>> Isaiah 1:28
>>
>> "Fear not them which kill the body, but
>> are not able to kill the soul: but rather
>> fear Him which is able to destroy both
>> soul and body in hell."~Matthew 10:28
>>
>> Jesus says that they are going to..--> be
>> *destroyed*.
>>
>> Both body and soul ~ destroyed in hell.
>
>> According to Jesus; and Jesus is the One
>> who knows.

On Apr 5, 2024, Andrew wrote
(in article <4XSPN.324659$Gp2.215681@fx04.ams4>):

> "Robert" wrote in message
> news:0001HW.2BBFE23F0015D52A306CDC38F@news.eternal-september.org...
> > Andrew wrote
> > > "Robert" wrote:
> > > > Andrew wrote:
> > > > > "Robert" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Do you accept the truth of Hell and the Lake of Fire and
> > > > > > Brimstone as a place of eternal torture or punishment?
> > > > >
> > > > > To rightly understand any Bible passage one needs to
> > > > > view it in context with the whole Bible.
> > > > >
> > > > > Some churches build a doctrine on a verse or two, but
> > > > > ignore others that may expose their errors. Your above
> > > > > is a good example.
> > > > >
> > > > > The "lake of fire" as a place of punishment is definitely
> > > > > real as a future event. But the result thereof will be the
> > > > > "second death", not eternal torture in a life that never
> > > > > ends.
> > > >
> > > > “Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye
> > > > cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:”
> > > > (Mat 25:41, KJV)
> > > >
> > > > “And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous
> > > > into life eternal.” (Mat 25:46, KJV)
> > >
> > > According to the Bible, the "everlasting punishment" will
> > > be everlasting *death*. It is the "second death" which will
> > > be eternal.
> > >
> > > This is what the Bible says. The honest student will want
> > > to know that, and not cling to a pet doctrine.
> >
> > Andrew. Think a minute. When Adam committed sin, what was the curse of that
> > sin?
> >
> > “But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of
> > it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.” (Gen
> > 2:17, KJV)
> >
> > What part of him died? For in the day that he eats the fruit he surely,
> > beyond certainty, die.
> >
> > Is not everyone since, dead to God that lives in sin? Adam was created pure
> > and without sin, But when he willfully sinned, he lost his relationship with
> > God. From then on he like any man before the resurrection of Jesus, had to
> > offer up a sin sacrifice in order to be forgiven.
>
> No. You believe in forgiveness by works. Which is neither biblical nor
> Christian. The sacrificial system was given by God as an illustration to
> show us how God deals with sin. The animal sacrifices were types that
> pointed to the sacrifice of Jesus who was the antitype, by whose merits
> alone is there forgiveness and full salvation.

Andrew, that is a straight out lie. I have never ever stated nor believed
such a thing as forgiveness by works,

That is an offense to me for which an apology is necessary.
>
> Before the cross they looked forward to the Savior. After the cross we
> look back. Jesus is the center of the whole plan of redemption which
> covers all dispensations.

Had you read my posts for any length of time you would have see the evidences
that I provided via the scriptures as well as my testimony of this last
statement of yours.
>
>
> > The was a price that needed
> > to be paid for sin in order to be put into a right relationship with God.
>
> In the plan of salvation, the price is paid by ~ Jesus.

Of course.
>
>
> > Those that did not sacrifice to the Heavenly Father would die in their
> > sinful state.
>
> Salvation by 'works' again.

Have you lost your marbles. This was the way of the lord under the covenant
of Law with the Israelites. Which Paul also spoke of in the NT. If this is to
be the tenor of your arguments with me, throughout the rest of your reply I
will stop here and await your apology, for you will not be able to understand
anything I wrote when you are operating with a deceived spirit.

AYUP, you are operating in false assumptions. You might believe parts of the
Scripture, but you mix it with false doctrines, and the doctrines in regard
to eternal torment etc., that you do not hold to are prophesied for these
last days.
<snip>

On Apr 4, 2024, Michael Christ wrote
(in article <uun9kr$se12$4@dont-email.me>):

> On 5/04/2024 2:04 am, Robert wrote:
> > On Apr 4, 2024, Michael Christ wrote
> > (in article <uulr3m$f155$3@dont-email.me>):
> >
> > > On 4/04/2024 4:27 pm, Robert wrote:
> > > > On Apr 3, 2024, Michael Christ wrote
> > > > (in article <uul6dd$digl$1@dont-email.me>):
> > > >
> > > > > On 4/04/2024 1:08 pm, Robert wrote:
> > > > > > On Apr 3, 2024, Michael Christ wrote
> > > > > > (in article <uukq99$4k0o$5@dont-email.me>):
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 3/04/2024 2:47 am, Robert wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Apr 2, 2024, Michael Christ wrote
> > > > > > > > (in article <uugom6$2ukmh$4@dont-email.me>):
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You will note that Abraham chose to obey God (to choose God) and
> > > > > > > > > sacrifice Isaac on an altar. And since he was going to, God stopped
> > > > > > > > > his
> > > > > > > > > hand.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > “And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and
> > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > thou
> > > > > > > > perfect. And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will
> > > > > > > > multiply
> > > > > > > > thee exceedingly. And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him,
> > > > > > > > saying,†(Gen 17:1-3, KJV)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In regards to the sacrifice of Isaac it is written,...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Gen 22:7-16 (KJV)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he
> > > > > > > > said,
> > > > > > > > Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but
> > > > > > > > whereis
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > lamb for a burnt offering?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a
> > > > > > > > burnt
> > > > > > > > offering: so they went both of them together.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham
> > > > > > > > built
> > > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and
> > > > > > > > laid
> > > > > > > > him on the altar upon the wood.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay
> > > > > > > > his
> > > > > > > > son.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said,
> > > > > > > > Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any
> > > > > > > > thing
> > > > > > > > unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not
> > > > > > > > withheld
> > > > > > > > thy son, thine only son from me.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behindhim a
> > > > > > > > ram
> > > > > > > > caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram,
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Lord took me back to your context.......
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What you don't see is that Abraham still had to make an offering for
> > > > > > > his
> > > > > > > sin. Let that sink in.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But of course, and he did it by Faith, and God knew his heart, and so
> > > > > > God
> > > > > > honored him. ALL the men that God accounted perfect in the OT,
> > > > > > sacrificed
> > > > > > by
> > > > > > faith of the Messiah to come. Job included. They all did it annually.
> > > > > > And
> > > > > > God
> > > > > > provided the sacrifice, directly, in that situation, fulfilling what
> > > > > > Abraham
> > > > > > said, that the Lord would provide the sacrifice. See V13
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Therefore, accounted righteousness (fearing God) does not equal
> > > > > > > righteousness (in Christ Jesus/God). Therefore, obviously, there is a
> > > > > > > difference between Abraham's "accounted as righteousness" and "God's
> > > > > > > righteousness!"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Incorrect. God rewarded them all their life for their continuance in
> > > > > > him.
> > > > > > Look at what Satan said about perfect Job. That he could not touch him
> > > > > > because of the hedge God had around Job. Plus, the righteousness that
> > > > > > God
> > > > > > accounted to him was from God, not because of their deeds.Now matter how
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > slice and dice it, it all came from God to man.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There, I have addressed 'your context' upon 'my context in my posting.'
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No, you misconstrued the work of God as well as His word.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And to add to 'my context'............
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1) Abraham still needed the Messiah to come; the Lord's (God's)
> > > > > > > righteousness.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And that is why he dwelt in paradise until the resurrection of Jesus, as
> > > > > > did
> > > > > > all the other saints.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2) Fearing God is not enough; one must repent in dust and ashes for who
> > > > > > > they are.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Not by works under the saving Grace of Jesus, Jesus paid the price in
> > > > > > full.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Repentance is doing a 180 change, change in heart and actions.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 3) Job and Abraham were regarded as "perfect and righteous" because
> > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > were in their fear of God, but fear does not make a man choose God.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Fear in such a case is reverence and total respect, knowing and
> > > > > > recognizing
> > > > > > his total authority.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 4) What makes a man choose God is choosing Him for who He is, and for
> > > > > > > that a man needs the Lord to reveal Himself personally.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In part yes, but it is also due to recognition that he alone is God and
> > > > > > we
> > > > > > are not, also realizing the we can do nothing on ourselves, the we are
> > > > > > sinners in need of redemption.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 5) If that does not occur, then that man isn't all that interested in
> > > > > > > God but more interested in himself.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Many ‘christians’ are that way also.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 6) "God or self? That's your choice...1, 2, and 3!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One must, at all times, walk in the Spirit, never looking back, as did
> > > > > > Lots
> > > > > > wife, in order to fulfill that.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Paul raked Peter over the coals for the egregious errors he made, yet he
> > > > > > never once condemned him to hell, etc. for them and that is something
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > to consider when propagating your personal doctrine of making no
> > > > > > mistakes.
> > > > > > Jesus who is our High Priest in Heaven, before the throne of His Father,
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > also our advocate. Why, because he was tested in all points as we are
> > > > > > daily.
> > > > > > He knows what it is like to live as a man living in this world of evil.
> > > > > > We
> > > > > > need a good lawyer there, and he fulfills the need perfectly.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If all christians never committed any sin there would be no need for an
> > > > > > advocate.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Michael Christ
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I do appreciate your efforts in addressing some of what I said, but are
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > recanting that your self is god?
> > > > >
> > > > > > -). You know only too well that I would never say or mean that. It was
> > > > > very disingenuous of you to make that claim, and that is to put it very
> > > > > mildly. Why you even have to do that is a question you should ask
> > > > > yourself.
> > > > >
> > > > > It is on your head that you would contextualise that about me.
> > > > >
> > > > > As for your replies to what I said, you were given an explanation that
> > > > > you could understand if you were predisposed to do so, and that is it. I
> > > > > am always open to people who ask questions about what "I" have said.
> > > > >
> > > > > However, if they are going to simply dump their context on what I say
> > > > > and argue that context, that is another thing, and I have better things
> > > > > to do.
> > > > >
> > > > > "I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
> > > > > where God intends."
> > > > >
> > > > > Michael Christ
>
> Robert wrote:
> > > > Do you accept the truth of Hell and the Lake of Fire and Brimstone as a
> > > > place
> > > > of eternal torture or punishment?
>
> Michael Christ wrote:
> > > You can't even ask a question that is open and that doesn't manipulate
> > > and place your context!
>
> Robert wrote:
> > It is totally open ended. It is also based on scripture.
>
> Firstly, you always project scripture is your "base" but you are your
> "base." The same with ChristAIRosie.
>
> Don't believe me? Look at what you said again, "also."
>
> What you should have said was, "It is totally open ended. It is based on
> scripture."
>
> I am not blind.
>
> Secondly, you were told, you don't want to see it...
>
> This is an open ended question:
>
> Do I accept hell and the lake of fire and brimstone as a place of
> eternal torture and punishment?
>
> Not, do I accept your truth, which is underneath your question.
>
> I am not blind.
>
> > > Can't you see that?
> > >
> > > You just can't help yourself!
> > >
> > > Do I accept hell and the lake of fire and brimstone as a place of
> > > eternal torture and punishment? See the difference? Probably not,
> > > because you don't want to see it!
>
> Robert wrote:
> > I didn’t judge you and ask if you were going there, just whether or not
> > you
> > accepted the truth of God regarding the reality of it.
>
> "Your" truth of God regarding the reality of it, Robbo. :-).
>
> > > Firstly, it is not about what I accept and don't accept. The Lord has
> > > yet to speak to me about it. I need to hear what He says about the
> > > meaning of those words, first and foremost. Jesus is the Lord. Until
> > > then, I have nothing to say.
> >
> > Scripture is the word of God to man. Why is that not acceptable to you?
>
> I explained, Robert.
>
> Not your context.
>
> > “Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye
> > cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:”
> > (Mat
> > 25:41, KJV)
> >
> > See also Rev 20
>
> Not my context.

-------- Original Message --------
From: Robert <robert@no.way>
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2024 05:06:41PM GMT+00:00
Subject: God or self? That's your
choice...2!

> It is Gods, not mine, not yours, Gods.
> You can play all the games you wish to, but in the end it is Gods way, not
> yours.

Ask him what David's attitude towards
Scripture was:

https://t.ly/dhzWN

--
Have you heard the good news that Christ
died for our sins (†), and God raised
Him from the dead?

Andrew wrote:

> "Ted" wrote in message news:w3DPN.509820$vFZa.169044@fx13.iad...
> > Robert wrote:
> <<>>
> > > There is a heaven to gain and a place of eternal torment to shun.

> >
> > And if you don't kiss Hank's ass, he'll kick the shit out of you.
> > While I'm counting my money and laughing. That's why I'm urging you
> > to kiss Hank's ass with me now, Robert, before it's too late.
>

> There is indeed a heaven to win and a hell to shun.
> Chose one.
> Jesus paid the price. You may have life eternal in the future realm
> of peace, glory and eternal love.. OR, you may continue in sin and
> pay the penalty of it yourself.. Either way, your life here is short.

What is it about you that you imagine will endure for eternity?

(snip)

Robert wrote:
>> Sure is, when a person sinned tin the OT under the covenant of Law,
>> they paid
>> the price right then and there.

Rubbish!!! Complete trash!!! A filthy deluded satanic lie!!!

They wisely feared the Lord, like Abel did, and gave Him reverence, like
Job in the beginning, but it was not enough!

Andrew wrote:
> They did not!  It can only be paid by the atoning sacrifice
> of Jesus. They looked forward to the promised Savior;
> we look back.

Amen, amen, and amen.

This is what happens when you make the Lord Jesus Christ a
pseudo-created being, Robert. It means you don't see Him for who He
truly is—the only true salvation, God—nothing of ourselves.

The only thing we can be before God is dust and ashes.

(KJV)
Job 42:5  I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine
eye seeth thee.
Job 42:6  Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

All these years of reading and studying your Bible, you still have not
put it down (your theology) and gazed and seen into His being. Instead,
you have merely worshipped yourself with your bible.

You've been told and shown, told and shown, told and shown, but you have
resisted the will of the Lord all the way through.

I am genuinely sorry for you that you would spend your life in vain
telling yourself what you are not. It is the same with Duane Sheriff,
ChristRose et al.

(snip)

Michael Christ

--
God is God in all His Being.

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt
are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that
hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance (voice, the Person) of
God. When you find Him you have found the author."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul, and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do; it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free and free indeed with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that a sinner could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

What does a fool do? A fool looks for a "nothing" in a "something" in
order to explain the existence of existence.

"Unless you do all because He is who He is, all your religion is in vain."

"Every man is subject to God; He judges every man, and He is reality.
 What a gift in a fallen world!"

"Love MUST be a choice or it is nothing but a law!"

"Why were all men born sinners? So that God could reveal Himself, so
that we would behold the glory of God, and that we should bring forth
the glory of God"

"God does not and will not arbitrate for any man to love Him! If God
isn't everything to you, He is nothing to you where the rubber meets the
road."

"It is the unforgivable sin not to love God with all your heart, soul,
and mind. What do you have that is lasting? It is not so much being
punished; it is what you are left with."

"Love isn't worth anything without first a free will choice for God to
birth it in a man."

"The point of salvation: desperation. Anything less than that is
self-righteousness."

"A sinner is not a believer in God; a sinner is a believer in sin."

"A piece of dirt is not the promised land; that is only a reflection.
The promised land is knowing Me, says the Lord."

"It is all about God or it is all about idolatry."

"The Lord Jesus is coming soon. He has always come soon."

"There is no revolving door of self-worship in a son of God's life!"

"There is no such thing as random!"

"You can't truly love without it being with all your heart."

"No one can see God without their whole heart. Unless you can see God,
you know nothing."

"You can't learn God, God has to reveal Himself to you."

"No sinner is sinless in any way."

"Only God is life; only the Kingdom of God of His "Nature" is life."

"What you believe is just a leaning on your own understanding; faith is
a leaning on the one you have chosen to trust."

"God uses the "letter" to crucify a man and raise him from the dead."

(snip)

I am disgusted in you, Robert, but not according (typically) to what you
think!

Robert wrote:
>> Sure is, when a person sinned tin the OT under the covenant of Law,
>> they paid the price right then and there.

Rubbish!!! Complete trash!!! A filthy deluded satanic lie!!!

They wisely feared the Lord, like Abel did, and gave Him reverence, like
Job in the beginning, but it was not enough!

Andrew wrote:
> They did not! It can only be paid by the atoning sacrifice
> of Jesus. They looked forward to the promised Savior;
> we look back.

Amen, amen, and amen.

This is what happens when you make the Lord Jesus Christ a
pseudo-created being, Robert. It means you don't see Him for who He
truly is—the only true salvation, God—nothing of ourselves.

The only thing we can be before God is dust and ashes.

(KJV)
Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine
eye seeth thee.
Job 42:6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

All these years of reading and studying your Bible, you still have not
put it down (your theology) and gazed and seen into His being. Instead,
you have merely worshipped yourself with your bible.

You've been told and shown, told and shown, told and shown, but you have
resisted the will of the Lord all the way through.

I am genuinely sorry for you that you would spend your life in vain
telling yourself what you are not. It is the same with Duane Sheriff,
ChristRose et al.

Michael Christ

--
God is God in all His Being.

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt
are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that
hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance (voice, the Person) of
God. When you find Him you have found the author."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul, and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do; it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free and free indeed with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that a sinner could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

What does a fool do? A fool looks for a "nothing" in a "something" in
order to explain the existence of existence.

"Unless you do all because He is who He is, all your religion is in vain."

"Every man is subject to God; He judges every man, and He is reality.
 What a gift in a fallen world!"

"Love MUST be a choice or it is nothing but a law!"

"Why were all men born sinners? So that God could reveal Himself, so
that we would behold the glory of God, and that we should bring forth
the glory of God"

"God does not and will not arbitrate for any man to love Him! If God
isn't everything to you, He is nothing to you where the rubber meets the
road."

"It is the unforgivable sin not to love God with all your heart, soul,
and mind. What do you have that is lasting? It is not so much being
punished; it is what you are left with."

"Love isn't worth anything without first a free will choice for God to
birth it in a man."

"The point of salvation: desperation. Anything less than that is
self-righteousness."

"A sinner is not a believer in God; a sinner is a believer in sin."

"A piece of dirt is not the promised land; that is only a reflection.
The promised land is knowing Me, says the Lord."

"It is all about God or it is all about idolatry."

"The Lord Jesus is coming soon. He has always come soon."

"There is no revolving door of self-worship in a son of God's life!"

"There is no such thing as random!"

"You can't truly love without it being with all your heart."

"No one can see God without their whole heart. Unless you can see God,
you know nothing."

"You can't learn God, God has to reveal Himself to you."

"No sinner is sinless in any way."

"Only God is life; only the Kingdom of God of His "Nature" is life."

"What you believe is just a leaning on your own understanding; faith is
a leaning on the one you have chosen to trust."

"God uses the "letter" to crucify a man and raise him from the dead."

On 6/04/2024 4:16 am, ChristRose wrote:
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> From: Robert <robert@no.way>
> Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2024 05:06:41PM GMT+00:00
> Subject: God or self? That's your choice...2!
>
>
>> It is Gods, not mine, not yours, Gods.
>> You can play all the games you wish to, but in the end it is Gods way,
>> not
>> yours.
>
> Ask him what David's attitude towards Scripture was:
>
> https://t.ly/dhzWN

Tell the stubborn pre-crucifixion thick skull, the Word of God (a
Person) came and now dwells in a son of God's heart.

And tell him, when a person kill files me he kill files himself.

And gives me a holiday! :-).

Michael Christ

--
God is God in all His Being.

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt
are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that
hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance (voice, the Person) of
God. When you find Him you have found the author."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul, and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do; it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free and free indeed with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that a sinner could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

What does a fool do? A fool looks for a "nothing" in a "something" in
order to explain the existence of existence.

"Unless you do all because He is who He is, all your religion is in vain."

"Every man is subject to God; He judges every man, and He is reality.
 What a gift in a fallen world!"

"Love MUST be a choice or it is nothing but a law!"

"Why were all men born sinners? So that God could reveal Himself, so
that we would behold the glory of God, and that we should bring forth
the glory of God"

"God does not and will not arbitrate for any man to love Him! If God
isn't everything to you, He is nothing to you where the rubber meets the
road."

"It is the unforgivable sin not to love God with all your heart, soul,
and mind. What do you have that is lasting? It is not so much being
punished; it is what you are left with."

"Love isn't worth anything without first a free will choice for God to
birth it in a man."

"The point of salvation: desperation. Anything less than that is
self-righteousness."

"A sinner is not a believer in God; a sinner is a believer in sin."

"A piece of dirt is not the promised land; that is only a reflection.
The promised land is knowing Me, says the Lord."

"It is all about God or it is all about idolatry."

"The Lord Jesus is coming soon. He has always come soon."

"There is no revolving door of self-worship in a son of God's life!"

"There is no such thing as random!"

"You can't truly love without it being with all your heart."

"No one can see God without their whole heart. Unless you can see God,
you know nothing."

"You can't learn God, God has to reveal Himself to you."

"No sinner is sinless in any way."

"Only God is life; only the Kingdom of God of His "Nature" is life."

"What you believe is just a leaning on your own understanding; faith is
a leaning on the one you have chosen to trust."

"God uses the "letter" to crucify a man and raise him from the dead."