Why would someone have a private baptism in 1714?
I am researching the Hastings family in Horning in Norfolk and have not
seen this in any other baptism records.

On 06/01/2024 17:17, Geoff wrote:
> Why would someone have a private baptism in 1714?
> I am researching the Hastings family in Horning in Norfolk and have not
> seen this in any other baptism records.

Sick infant?
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall wrote:

> On 06/01/2024 17:17, Geoff wrote:
> > Why would someone have a private baptism in 1714?
> > I am researching the Hastings family in Horning in Norfolk and have
> > not seen this in any other baptism records.
>
> Sick infant?

He went on to have 7 children!

On 06/01/2024 17:32, Geoff wrote:
> Graeme Wall wrote:
>
>> On 06/01/2024 17:17, Geoff wrote:
>>> Why would someone have a private baptism in 1714?
>>> I am researching the Hastings family in Horning in Norfolk and have
>>> not seen this in any other baptism records.
>>
>> Sick infant?
>
> He went on to have 7 children!

Obviously recovered.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 06/01/2024 17:24, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 06/01/2024 17:17, Geoff wrote:
>> Why would someone have a private baptism in 1714?
>> I am researching the Hastings family in Horning in Norfolk and have not
>> seen this in any other baptism records.
>
> Sick infant?

That would appear to be what the Book of Common Prayer implies.

'The Minister of every parish shall warn the people that without great
cause and necessity they procure not their children to be baptized at
home in their houses. But when need shall compel them so to do, then
Baptism shall be administered on this fashion.'

https://www.churchofengland.org/prayer-and-worship/worship-texts-and-resources/book-common-prayer/private-baptism-infants

--
Colin Bignell

Colin Bignell wrote:

> On 06/01/2024 17:24, Graeme Wall wrote:
> > On 06/01/2024 17:17, Geoff wrote:
> > > Why would someone have a private baptism in 1714?
> > > I am researching the Hastings family in Horning in Norfolk and
> > > have not seen this in any other baptism records.
> >
> > Sick infant?
>
> That would appear to be what the Book of Common Prayer implies.
>
> 'The Minister of every parish shall warn the people that without
> great cause and necessity they procure not their children to be
> baptized at home in their houses. But when need shall compel them so
> to do, then Baptism shall be administered on this fashion.'
>
>
https://www.churchofengland.org/prayer-and-worship/worship-texts-and-resources/book-common-prayer/private-baptism-infants

Thanks for that. Hadn't seen it written before.

On 06/01/2024 17:17, Geoff wrote:
> Why would someone have a private baptism in 1714?
> I am researching the Hastings family in Horning in Norfolk and have not
> seen this in any other baptism records.

In my experience of studyimg Bedfordshire registers, private baptisms
are rarely noted as such before the late 18th century. Sometimes I find
two baptisms quite close together for a child with the same name and
parentage, with no intervening burial, but it is impossible to tell
whether it is the same child (as so many child burials seem to go
unrecorded).

Steven

Steven Gibbs wrote:
> On 06/01/2024 17:17, Geoff wrote:
>> Why would someone have a private baptism in 1714?
>> I am researching the Hastings family in Horning in Norfolk and have not
>> seen this in any other baptism records.
>
> In my experience of studyimg Bedfordshire registers, private baptisms
> are rarely noted as such before the late 18th century. Sometimes I find
> two baptisms quite close together for a child with the same name and
> parentage, with no intervening burial, but it is impossible to tell
> whether it is the same child (as so many child burials seem to go
> unrecorded).

One thing I've seen a few times is that the child is baptised at home
and then subsequently "introduced to the congregation" or similar words
but that would only be a matter of weeks.

I've also seen churching of women recorded in the same register as
baptisms which has confused (admittedly a low bar) some IGI
transcribers. This was the case with one of my 3xggmothers: "Christiana
wife of John Goddard". The actual entry was "Wife of John Goddard
Ch"[urched], her name was Mary.

It only seemed to be carried out, or at least noted, after a miscarriage
as not only does there seem to be no baptism of a corresponding infant
but one woman was churched at intervals of several months but far too
short for a pregnancy to full term. Mary G's churching happened in the
longish interval between marriage and baptism of their first child.

Ian

On 07/01/2024 12:28, Steven Gibbs wrote:
> On 06/01/2024 17:17, Geoff wrote:
>> Why would someone have a private baptism in 1714?
>> I am researching the Hastings family in Horning in Norfolk and have not
>> seen this in any other baptism records.
>
> In my experience of studyimg Bedfordshire registers, private baptisms
> are rarely noted as such before the late 18th century. Sometimes I find
> two baptisms quite close together for a child with the same name and
> parentage, with no intervening burial, but it is impossible to tell
> whether it is the same child (as so many child burials seem to go
> unrecorded).

From The Book of Common Prayer on private baptisms:

'And let them not doubt, but that the Child so baptized is lawfully and
sufficiently baptized, and ought not to be baptized again.'

Of course, if the baptisms are too close for a second child to have been
born to the same parents, the second 'baptism' is probably the public
declaration in church that the child was baptised privately.

--
Colin Bignell

In message <unc2cv$mfgi$1@dont-email.me> at Sat, 6 Jan 2024 17:24:47,
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> writes
>On 06/01/2024 17:17, Geoff wrote:
>> Why would someone have a private baptism in 1714?
>> I am researching the Hastings family in Horning in Norfolk and have not
>> seen this in any other baptism records.
>
>Sick infant?

I'm looking at a fairly closely-written double page (1765-1766 for
Reedham (also in Norfolk), and only three of the entries are "was Pub.
Bapt.d"; the rest - the vast majority - are "was priv: Nom:". So either
there was some epidemic in Reedham over those two years, or private was
the norm. Or, "priv: Nom:" (the capitalisation and punctuation is
consistent for both formats) doesn't mean what it appears to mean.

(Why "Nom:" - presumably meaning "named" - for the "Priv:" ones, and
"Bapt.d" for the "Pub." ones, I don't know.)

Interestingly and unusually, this particular scribe seems to have
recorded the day of the week - for example, the one I'm interested in:

97 Abraham Son of Abraham Turrell & Mary his
wife was priv. Nom.Monday Decem.br 16.1765

(at least I think he's the one I'm interested in; I have him married
1788-7-13 in Wymondham, which is over 23 miles away and the other side
of Norwich, so Reedham seems very unlikely to be where he was born, but
I can't find any other Abr* T*r*l* in anything like the right date in
Norfolk. If anyone can, please say!)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Of course, this show - like every other cop show on earth - massively
overstates the prevalence of violent crime: last year, in the whole of the UK,
police fired their weapons just three times. And there were precisely zero
fatalities. - Vincent Graff in RT, 2014/11/8-14

On 2024-01-06 17:32:00 +0000, Geoff said:

> Graeme Wall wrote:
>
>> On 06/01/2024 17:17, Geoff wrote:
>>> Why would someone have a private baptism in 1714?
>>> I am researching the Hastings family in Horning in Norfolk and have
>>> not seen this in any other baptism records.
>>
>> Sick infant?
>
> He went on to have 7 children!

My grandmother was baptised in 1875 by a nurse in a maternity hospital
because she wasn't expected to live. She was later baptised again in
church. She died in 1965 at the age of 89, with three surviving
children (a fourth lost in a submarine during the War) and eight
grandchildren. You don't need to be a priest to carry out a baptism,
and I think baptism by nurses in hospital was quite common.

--
Athel cb

On 10/01/2024 08:56, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2024-01-06 17:32:00 +0000, Geoff said:
>
>> Graeme Wall wrote:
>>
>>> On 06/01/2024 17:17, Geoff wrote:
>>>> Why would someone have a private baptism in 1714?
>>>> I am researching the Hastings family in Horning in Norfolk and have
>>>> not seen this in any other baptism records.
>>>
>>> Sick infant?
>>
>> He went on to have 7 children!
>
> My grandmother was baptised in 1875 by a nurse in a maternity hospital
> because she wasn't expected to live. She was later baptised again in
> church. She died in 1965 at the age of 89, with three surviving children
> (a fourth lost in a submarine during the War) and eight grandchildren.
> You don't need to be a priest to carry out a baptism, and I think
> baptism by nurses in hospital was quite common.
>

I had the misfortune to spend part of my secondary schooling at a
Catholic school, run by Irish priests. At about the age of 15 we were
taught the correct form of words for a baptism in case we came across an
emergency situation. I hasten to add, I've never actually performed one.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 2024-01-10 11:25:04 +0000, Graeme Wall said:

> On 10/01/2024 08:56, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2024-01-06 17:32:00 +0000, Geoff said:
>>
>>> Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 06/01/2024 17:17, Geoff wrote:
>>>>> Why would someone have a private baptism in 1714?
>>>>> I am researching the Hastings family in Horning in Norfolk and have
>>>>> not seen this in any other baptism records.
>>>>
>>>> Sick infant?
>>>
>>> He went on to have 7 children!
>>
>> My grandmother was baptised in 1875 by a nurse in a maternity hospital
>> because she wasn't expected to live. She was later baptised again in
>> church. She died in 1965 at the age of 89, with three surviving
>> children (a fourth lost in a submarine during the War) and eight
>> grandchildren. You don't need to be a priest to carry out a baptism,
>> and I think baptism by nurses in hospital was quite common.
>>
>
> I had the misfortune to spend part of my secondary schooling at a
> Catholic school, run by Irish priests. At about the age of 15 we were
> taught the correct form of words for a baptism in case we came across
> an emergency situation. I hasten to add, I've never actually performed
> one.

Thinking of the 89 years that my grandmother lived after being thought
unlikely to survive, I looked up her father, who was an equally
impressive case of longevity. He served in the Indian Army, and fought
in the Indian Mutiny, eventually becoming its last known survivor. He
left the Army at the age of 29 on account of ill health, but he lived
another 69 years after that, dying at the age of 98. His unmarried
daughter, my great-aunt, was the last person to receive a pension from
the East India Company -- until she died in 1962, 87 years after the
company was dissolved. General Frank Kitson, who died a few days ago at
the age of 97, was his grandson. I was always told that longevity was
characteristic of that family, and it's apparently true.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

On 10/01/2024 08:56, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2024-01-06 17:32:00 +0000, Geoff said:
>
>> Graeme Wall wrote:
>>
>>> On 06/01/2024 17:17, Geoff wrote:
>>>> Why would someone have a private baptism in 1714?
>>>> I am researching the Hastings family in Horning in Norfolk and have
>>>> not seen this in any other baptism records.
>>>
>>> Sick infant?
>>
>> He went on to have 7 children!
>
> My grandmother was baptised in 1875 by a nurse in a maternity hospital
> because she wasn't expected to live. She was later baptised again in
> church. She died in 1965 at the age of 89, with three surviving children
> (a fourth lost in a submarine during the War) and eight grandchildren.
> You don't need to be a priest to carry out a baptism, and I think
> baptism by nurses in hospital was quite common.
>

The situation in the case of a child not expected to survive varies
slightly by religion. The Anglican Church and Methodists allow anybody
who is themselves baptised to baptise a child. The Roman Catholic Church
allows even somebody who is not baptised to baptise a child, provided
they use water and the approved form of words.

--
Colin Bignell