https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13361885/Two-Finnish-passenger-jets-forced-turn-Russia-GPS-jamming-Baltic-nations-warn-Moscows-hostile-actions-risking-air-disaster.html

Two Finnish passenger jets are forced to turn around mid-journey
due to Russian GPS jamming as Baltic nations warn Moscow's
'hostile' actions are risking an air disaster

Finnair flights to Tartu in Estonia were forced to return
to Helsinki late last week

.. . .

This is extremely dangerous, esp for air traffic.

BUT ... Ukraine drones have been using GPS to
target Russian assets.

Yes, there are military systems - but they're not
gonna put that in civvie transports OR give it
to Ukraine. However Ukraine can still use civvie
radio beacons for crude targeting and then switch
to video for the final run.

In the meanwhile, DO reconsider air travel across
areas with high obstacles anywhere near the Russian
border.

On the broad note, it was ridiculous shifting almost
all navigation tech - for buzzy little planes up to
airliners, buzzy little boats up to supertankers and
mega-freighters - to ONE kind of system. GPS is a
very weak signal and CAN be jammed ... or worse,
overridden with a false signal. Russia and China
can make GPS go away any time they want.

On 5/1/24 9:42 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On Wed, 1 May 2024 12:10:04 -0400, 68hx.1806 wrote:
>
>> Someone mentioned laser gyroscopes and/or accelerometers.
>> In *theory* some might be good enough to target a missile from
>> perhaps 1000km. Of course you have to know EXACTLY where you are when
>> you launch .....
>
> That goes back to the early Trident days. Submarines didn't know exactly
> where they were hence the GPS system. The Boeing missile I read about was
> claimed to be good for 60 miles so it's not like the Russians have to deny
> coverage over a wide area.
>
> The article was short on specifics other than mentioning SDRs and saying
> software was available to spoof the signals. I didn't go shopping for
> warez on onion :)
>
> It did mention the missiles were 90% effective at the beginning of the
> conflict and had dropped to 6%. It's no secret the GPS positioning has
> become widespread on the battlefield so Russia or any other state that
> sees a battle in their future has been working on the problem. The
> Ukrainians have given the Russians an excellent laboratory to perfect
> their techniques. Of course other players, say in the Mideast, might be
> interested in the technology. If you can crash $100,000 missiles in a
> cornfield you're ahead of the game.
>
> I doubt they were equipped with state of the art devices but I think the
> Russians so far have added Abrams, Leopard, and Challenger tanks to their
> collection of interesting machinery. I don't know if they've gotten any
> more or less intact missiles or drones to examine.

Russia had a public SHOW of captured western tanks
yesterday :-)

Blowing-up cornfields isn't very useful unless
you can blow up ALL of them.

As said, there ARE US and EU/NATO mil sat systems.
However they'd LIKE to keep that tech as secret
as possible. Last thing we want to do is give the
Russkies a present in the form of a dud missile
with intact electronics found in a cornfield.

For Ukraine, the best weapons are not long-range
missiles/drones but air-defense missiles and lots
of battlefield shells and rockets. Right now, what
they need most is something like a discount IronDome.
Supplies for their domestic-built anti-armor/troop
drones are also a priority. Ukraine has been VERY
impressive with using crap-tech against high tech.

Russia is clearly willing to keep throwing cannon-fodder
at Ukraine for at least another year. Russians are
old-school hard-asses, not as sensitive to casualties as
western nations. The NAZIs discovered that the hard way.

Every dollar/euro spent on Ukraine is the best
money the US/EU has spent in a LONG time.

Meanwhile :
https://www.ukrinform.net/

But note that it IS a Ukraine site so a certain
amount of propaganda tilt is gonna happen. Always
double-check anything that sounds "major".