I'm looking at the 1942Q2 marriage index page - page 363, MAT.

It covers only surname Matthews - from Alice to Joan B.

There are two George A. Matthews; one is fine - he married a Taylor, in
Mansfield, 7b 333.

But the second one is very strange:

-- George Williams St.Helens 8 b 1692
-- George A. Taylor Mansfield 7 b 333
-- George A. Digby or Norwich Outer 4 b 413
Laurence
-- George E. Pearson Upper Agbrigg 9 a 1117

I've never seen an "or" like that before; anyone know what's going on?

Looking for 1942Q2 4b 413, I find "Lawrence Elfrida H. R." and "Digby
Elfrida H. R.", both "Matthews Norwich Outer 4 b 413". _Very_ odd!

(Yes, the George A. says [or] Laurence with a u, the Elfrida Lawrence
with a w.)

(I can't find a George Matthews to Elfrida marriage in marriage records,
but there _was_ a war on so such records may have got lost.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Flobalob" actually means "Flowerpot" in Oddle-Poddle.

I'm not familiar with the British marriage records, but is it possible
that it could be an instance of someone using an alternative or middle
name? Can you find further information for either person, such as birth
or death dates?

On 2023-09-14 17:12, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> I'm looking at the 1942Q2 marriage index page - page 363, MAT.
>
> It covers only surname Matthews - from Alice to Joan B.
>
> There are two George A. Matthews; one is fine - he married a Taylor, in
> Mansfield, 7b 333.
>
> But the second one is very strange:
>
> -- George           Williams    St.Helens     8 b  1692
> -- George A.        Taylor      Mansfield     7 b   333
> -- George A.        Digby or    Norwich Outer 4 b   413
>                       Laurence
> -- George E.        Pearson     Upper Agbrigg 9 a  1117
>
> I've never seen an "or" like that before; anyone know what's going on?
>
> Looking for 1942Q2 4b 413, I find "Lawrence Elfrida H. R." and "Digby
> Elfrida H. R.", both "Matthews Norwich Outer 4 b   413". _Very_ odd!
>
> (Yes, the George A. says [or] Laurence with a u, the Elfrida Lawrence
> with a w.)
>
> (I can't find a George Matthews to Elfrida marriage in marriage records,
> but there _was_ a war on so such records may have got lost.)

On Thu, 14 Sep 2023 22:12:15 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver"
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

>I'm looking at the 1942Q2 marriage index page - page 363, MAT.
>
>It covers only surname Matthews - from Alice to Joan B.
>
>There are two George A. Matthews; one is fine - he married a Taylor, in
>Mansfield, 7b 333.
>
>But the second one is very strange:
>
>-- George Williams St.Helens 8 b 1692
>-- George A. Taylor Mansfield 7 b 333
>-- George A. Digby or Norwich Outer 4 b 413
> Laurence
>-- George E. Pearson Upper Agbrigg 9 a 1117
>
>I've never seen an "or" like that before; anyone know what's going on?
>
Usually someone who for various reasons is known by two different
surnames.
It can be :-
- someone whose mother has re-married
- a child of unmarried parents
- a previously divorced woman who has reverted to her maiden name
- someone who has simply adopted another surname
- a widow of more than one husband
etc. etc.

>Looking for 1942Q2 4b 413, I find "Lawrence Elfrida H. R." and "Digby
>Elfrida H. R.", both "Matthews Norwich Outer 4 b 413". _Very_ odd!
>
>(Yes, the George A. says [or] Laurence with a u, the Elfrida Lawrence
>with a w.)
>
>(I can't find a George Matthews to Elfrida marriage in marriage records,
>but there _was_ a war on so such records may have got lost.)

On 14/09/2023 23:12, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> I'm looking at the 1942Q2 marriage index page - page 363, MAT.
>
> It covers only surname Matthews - from Alice to Joan B.
>
> There are two George A. Matthews; one is fine - he married a Taylor, in
> Mansfield, 7b 333.
>
> But the second one is very strange:
>
> -- George           Williams    St.Helens     8 b  1692
> -- George A.        Taylor      Mansfield     7 b   333
> -- George A.        Digby or    Norwich Outer 4 b   413
>                       Laurence
> -- George E.        Pearson     Upper Agbrigg 9 a  1117
>
> I've never seen an "or" like that before; anyone know what's going on?
>
> Looking for 1942Q2 4b 413, I find "Lawrence Elfrida H. R." and "Digby
> Elfrida H. R.", both "Matthews Norwich Outer 4 b   413". _Very_ odd!
>
> (Yes, the George A. says [or] Laurence with a u, the Elfrida Lawrence
> with a w.)
>
> (I can't find a George Matthews to Elfrida marriage in marriage records,
> but there _was_ a war on so such records may have got lost.)
Marriages Mar 1922
DIGBY Charlie J Lawrence Erpingham 4b 105
LAWRENCE Elfrida H R Digby Erpingham 4b 105
The 1939 register has Elfrida H Digby updated to Matthews
Not sure what happened to Charlie

On 14/09/2023 22:12, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> I'm looking at the 1942Q2 marriage index page - page 363, MAT.
>
> It covers only surname Matthews - from Alice to Joan B.
>
> There are two George A. Matthews; one is fine - he married a Taylor, in
> Mansfield, 7b 333.
>
> But the second one is very strange:
>
> -- George           Williams    St.Helens     8 b  1692
> -- George A.        Taylor      Mansfield     7 b   333
> -- George A.        Digby or    Norwich Outer 4 b   413
>                       Laurence
> -- George E.        Pearson     Upper Agbrigg 9 a  1117
>
> I've never seen an "or" like that before; anyone know what's going on?
>
> Looking for 1942Q2 4b 413, I find "Lawrence Elfrida H. R." and "Digby
> Elfrida H. R.", both "Matthews Norwich Outer 4 b   413". _Very_ odd!
>
> (Yes, the George A. says [or] Laurence with a u, the Elfrida Lawrence
> with a w.)
>
> (I can't find a George Matthews to Elfrida marriage in marriage records,
> but there _was_ a war on so such records may have got lost.)

Elfrida's widowed/divorced, maiden name is one surname, married name is
the other. I've found a few like that in my tree. Nominally the first
name (Digby) is the maiden name but don't count on it.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 15/09/2023 08:51, john wrote:
> On 14/09/2023 23:12, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> I'm looking at the 1942Q2 marriage index page - page 363, MAT.
>>
>> It covers only surname Matthews - from Alice to Joan B.
>>
>> There are two George A. Matthews; one is fine - he married a Taylor,
>> in Mansfield, 7b 333.
>>
>> But the second one is very strange:
>>
>> -- George           Williams    St.Helens     8 b  1692
>> -- George A.        Taylor      Mansfield     7 b   333
>> -- George A.        Digby or    Norwich Outer 4 b   413
>>                        Laurence
>> -- George E.        Pearson     Upper Agbrigg 9 a  1117
>>
>> I've never seen an "or" like that before; anyone know what's going on?
>>
>> Looking for 1942Q2 4b 413, I find "Lawrence Elfrida H. R." and "Digby
>> Elfrida H. R.", both "Matthews Norwich Outer 4 b   413". _Very_ odd!
>>
>> (Yes, the George A. says [or] Laurence with a u, the Elfrida Lawrence
>> with a w.)
>>
>> (I can't find a George Matthews to Elfrida marriage in marriage
>> records, but there _was_ a war on so such records may have got lost.)
>
> Marriages Mar 1922
> DIGBY Charlie J Lawrence Erpingham 4b 105
> LAWRENCE Elfrida H R Digby Erpingham 4b 105
>
> The 1939 register has Elfrida H Digby updated to Matthews
>
> Not sure what happened to Charlie
There are several full public trees on Ancestry for
Elfrida Hannah Rose (Ella) Lawrence
1901–1996
BIRTH 20 FEB 1901 • Erpingham, Norfolk, England
DEATH JAN 1996 • Norwich, Norfolk, England
with
Charlie J Digby
1902–1971
BIRTH 12 APRIL 1902 • Weybourne, Norfolk, England
DEATH OCT 1971 • Wayland District, Norfolk, England

In message <ue02i1$2sc3n$1@dont-email.me> at Thu, 14 Sep 2023 18:47:29,
Renee McNeely <reneemcneely@outlook.com> writes
>I'm not familiar with the British marriage records, but is it possible
>that it could be an instance of someone using an alternative or middle
>name? Can you find further information for either person, such as birth
>or death dates?

See later posts, but their son Clive's birth is recorded as MMN Digby.
>
>On 2023-09-14 17:12, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> I'm looking at the 1942Q2 marriage index page - page 363, MAT.
>> It covers only surname Matthews - from Alice to Joan B.
[]
>> -- George A.        Digby or    Norwich Outer 4 b   413
>>                       Laurence
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If a cluttered desk is characteristic of a cluttered mind, what does an empty
desk mean ?

In message <j4l7gidb80rdkj230g9ftiimaetd6h08fe@4ax.com> at Fri, 15 Sep
2023 04:58:32, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> writes
>On Thu, 14 Sep 2023 22:12:15 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver"
><G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>
>>I'm looking at the 1942Q2 marriage index page - page 363, MAT.
[]
>>-- George A. Digby or Norwich Outer 4 b 413
>> Laurence
[]
>>I've never seen an "or" like that before; anyone know what's going on?
>>
>Usually someone who for various reasons is known by two different
>surnames.
>It can be :-
>- someone whose mother has re-married
>- a child of unmarried parents
>- a previously divorced woman who has reverted to her maiden name
>- someone who has simply adopted another surname
>- a widow of more than one husband
>etc. etc.
>
Thanks. From subsequent posts, looks like she was indeed married (to Mr.
La?rence) previously.
[]
I'd just not come across that in the birth index before - usually, she's
shown with the surname of the first husband (which can be confusing
where I don't have any knowledge of the first marriage). Maybe, as you
say, she was still using both names.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If a cluttered desk is characteristic of a cluttered mind, what does an empty
desk mean ?

In message <ue0vfm$34li0$1@dont-email.me> at Fri, 15 Sep 2023 09:01:11,
john <john1@s145802280.onlinehome.fr> writes
>On 15/09/2023 08:51, john wrote:
>> On 14/09/2023 23:12, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
[]
>>> -- George A.        Digby or    Norwich Outer 4 b   413
>>>                        Laurence
[]
>>> I've never seen an "or" like that before; anyone know what's going on?
[]
>>> (I can't find a George Matthews to Elfrida marriage in marriage
>>>records, but there _was_ a war on so such records may have got lost.)
>> Marriages Mar 1922
>> DIGBY Charlie J Lawrence Erpingham 4b 105
>> LAWRENCE Elfrida H R Digby Erpingham 4b 105
>> The 1939 register has Elfrida H Digby updated to Matthews

Aha! I should have looked at the 1939 - often the source of many
solutions!

>> Not sure what happened to Charlie

Another ("john" - see below) has said he died in 1971Q4 (actually he
said Oct, but I presume that means Q4), Wayland district, Norfolk, so
presumably they must have divorced.
>
>There are several full public trees on Ancestry for
>Elfrida Hannah Rose (Ella) Lawrence
>1901–1996
>BIRTH 20 FEB 1901 • Erpingham, Norfolk, England
>DEATH JAN 1996 • Norwich, Norfolk, England
>with
>Charlie J Digby
>1902–1971
>BIRTH 12 APRIL 1902 • Weybourne, Norfolk, England
>DEATH OCT 1971 • Wayland District, Norfolk, England

Ah. I must learn to look more widely! None of the trees Ancestry pointed
me to in following the ThruLines link I was following, actually
mentioned her earlier marriage; I suppose there was no need for them to
do so, though I myself usually like to record earlier marriages,
especially where there's a name confusion as here.

Thanks all!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If a cluttered desk is characteristic of a cluttered mind, what does an empty
desk mean ?

In message <ue0v4m$34fdh$2@dont-email.me> at Fri, 15 Sep 2023 07:55:18,
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> writes
>On 14/09/2023 22:12, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
[]
>> -- George A.        Digby or    Norwich Outer 4 b   413
>>                       Laurence
[]
>Elfrida's widowed/divorced, maiden name is one surname, married name is
>the other. I've found a few like that in my tree. Nominally the first
>name (Digby) is the maiden name but don't count on it.
>
Thanks. As others have kindly found for me, it wasn't in this case. I'd
just never seen two like that in the index before; now I have! (The
people at FreeBMD had problems indexing it too: they did it as if there
were two Elfridas, one with each surname.)
>
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If a cluttered desk is characteristic of a cluttered mind, what does an empty
desk mean ?

On 15/09/2023 15:17, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <ue0vfm$34li0$1@dont-email.me> at Fri, 15 Sep 2023 09:01:11,
> john <john1@s145802280.onlinehome.fr> writes
>> On 15/09/2023 08:51, john wrote:
>>> On 14/09/2023 23:12, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> []
>>>> -- George A.        Digby or    Norwich Outer 4 b   413
>>>>                        Laurence
> []
>>>> I've never seen an "or" like that before; anyone know what's going on?
> []
>>>> (I can't find a George Matthews to Elfrida marriage in marriage
>>>> records, but there _was_ a war on so such records may have got lost.)
>>>  Marriages Mar 1922
>>> DIGBY Charlie J Lawrence Erpingham 4b 105
>>> LAWRENCE Elfrida H R Digby Erpingham 4b 105
>>>  The 1939 register has Elfrida H Digby updated to Matthews
>
> Aha! I should have looked at the 1939 - often the source of many solutions!
>
>>>  Not sure what happened to Charlie
>
> Another ("john" - see below) has said he died in 1971Q4 (actually he
> said Oct, but I presume that means Q4), Wayland district, Norfolk, so
> presumably they must have divorced.
>>
>> There are several full public trees on Ancestry for
>> Elfrida Hannah Rose (Ella) Lawrence
>> 1901–1996
>> BIRTH 20 FEB 1901 • Erpingham, Norfolk, England
>> DEATH JAN 1996 • Norwich, Norfolk, England
>> with
>> Charlie J Digby
>> 1902–1971
>> BIRTH 12 APRIL 1902 • Weybourne, Norfolk, England
>> DEATH OCT 1971 • Wayland District, Norfolk, England
>
> Ah. I must learn to look more widely! None of the trees Ancestry pointed
> me to in following the ThruLines link I was following, actually
> mentioned her earlier marriage; I suppose there was no need for them to
> do so, though I myself usually like to record earlier marriages,
> especially where there's a name confusion as here.
>
> Thanks all!
You could look for a divorce here
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/divorce/
But I only did a quick search and didn't find anything.
Marriages Jun 1943
Digby Charlie J Freeman Norwich 4b 374
Freeman May L M A Digby Norwich 4b 374
(correct in FreeBMD but Ancestry has him as Charlis - perhaps you ought
to correct it?)

On 15/09/2023 15:21, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <ue0v4m$34fdh$2@dont-email.me> at Fri, 15 Sep 2023 07:55:18,
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> writes
>> On 14/09/2023 22:12, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> []
>>> -- George A.        Digby or    Norwich Outer 4 b   413
>>>                        Laurence
> []
>> Elfrida's widowed/divorced, maiden name is one surname, married name
>> is the other. I've found a few like that in my tree. Nominally the
>> first name (Digby) is the maiden name but don't count on it.
>>
> Thanks. As others have kindly found for me, it wasn't in this case. I'd
> just never seen two like that in the index before; now I have! (The
> people at FreeBMD had problems indexing it too: they did it as if there
> were two Elfridas, one with each surname.)
>>

FreeBMD do not interpret the entries. They just transcribe them as seen
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/FAQ.html#22
However, you can add a Postem to the record, if you think it would be
helpful to others https://www.freebmd.org.uk/postems-help.html

In message <ue1muk$38ulp$1@dont-email.me> at Fri, 15 Sep 2023 15:41:40,
john <john1@s145802280.onlinehome.fr> writes
>On 15/09/2023 15:17, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> In message <ue0vfm$34li0$1@dont-email.me> at Fri, 15 Sep 2023
>>09:01:11, john <john1@s145802280.onlinehome.fr> writes
>>> On 15/09/2023 08:51, john wrote:
[]
>>>>  Marriages Mar 1922
>>>> DIGBY Charlie J Lawrence Erpingham 4b 105
>>>> LAWRENCE Elfrida H R Digby Erpingham 4b 105
[]
>>> There are several full public trees on Ancestry for
>>> Elfrida Hannah Rose (Ella) Lawrence
>>> 1901–1996
[]
>>> with
>>> Charlie J Digby
>>> 1902–1971
[]
>You could look for a divorce here
>https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-gui
>des/divorce/

Thanks for the link.

>But I only did a quick search and didn't find anything.
>
>Marriages Jun 1943
>Digby Charlie J Freeman Norwich 4b 374
>Freeman May L M A Digby Norwich 4b 374

Oh, so Charlie remarried too! Just after Elfrida married George Matthews
(1942Q2). He obviously had a penchant for wives with lots of forenames!
>
>(correct in FreeBMD but Ancestry has him as Charlis - perhaps you ought
>to correct it?)
>
I ought, but ... (-: (I find Ancestry's correction mechanism
disheartening, as they never delete a wrong datum, in fact retain it as
the default, only adding submissions as an alternative, which is not
always visible.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Who's General Failure & why's he reading my disk? (Stolen from another .sig)

In message <ue1njl$38ulp$2@dont-email.me> at Fri, 15 Sep 2023 15:52:53,
john <john1@s145802280.onlinehome.fr> writes
>On 15/09/2023 15:21, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> In message <ue0v4m$34fdh$2@dont-email.me> at Fri, 15 Sep 2023
>>07:55:18, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> writes
>>> On 14/09/2023 22:12, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> []
>>>> -- George A.        Digby or    Norwich Outer 4 b   413
>>>>                        Laurence
>> []
>>> Elfrida's widowed/divorced, maiden name is one surname, married name
>>>is the other. I've found a few like that in my tree. Nominally the
[]
>>(The people at FreeBMD had problems indexing it too: they did it as
>>if there were two Elfridas, one with each surname.)
>>>
>
>
>FreeBMD do not interpret the entries. They just transcribe them as seen
>https://www.freebmd.org.uk/FAQ.html#22

Oh, indeed - I think FMP are the same, only recording what's there, even
if clearly wrong. However, transcribing the above as if there were two
Elfridas is a wrinkle I wouldn't have expected. (Maybe they had to to
enable anyone searching for either to find it, though.)
>
>However, you can add a Postem to the record, if you think it would be
>helpful to others https://www.freebmd.org.uk/postems-help.html

I will if I look at it ... actually I will. Hmm, there's a "comment"
there already - I'll still add a postem.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Who's General Failure & why's he reading my disk? (Stolen from another .sig)