On 2023-12-15 10:14:31 +0000, J. J. Lodder said:

> RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> On 12/14/2023 5:26 PM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
>>> RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:
>>>> On 12/14/2023 4:17 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>> RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/12/2023 8:45 PM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
>>>>> [-]
>>>>>>> So I should give up on you then? Maybe I don't want to. I agree the
>>>>>>> collective dogpile has been a bit much but I'd hope you could be more
>>>>>>> self-reflective.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You should just give up on what you are currently doing until you
>>>>>> understand what the situation actually is. Going forward with the same
>>>>>> misconceptions is just stupid. Get Mark Isaac to explain it to you. My
>>>>>> guess is that you should have realized by now that you should be more
>>>>>> self reflective.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ron Okimoto
>>>>>
>>>>> Just curious.
>>>>> Have you ever considered taking your own advice?
>>>>>
>>>>> Jan
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Have you considered getting together with the others in order to figure
>>>> out if you want to keep doing the stupid things that are currently
>>>> occurring?
>>>>
>>> Have you considered reading your more repetitive posts from an outsider
>>> perspective? What if you weren't you? You've already gotten enough feedback
>>> recently to see what others feel about those types of posts so you don't
>>> have to ask. Saying all these people are doing stupid things is coming from
>>> your somewhat blinkered perspective.
>>>
>>> As an alternative your "Artifact of Baysian analysis" post has gotten
>>> positive responses.
>>>
>>
>> I guess that you guys are hopeless.
>>
>> Ron Okimoto
>
> No doubt.
> But I have another and less pleasant perspective for you to consider.
> Unpleasant, but I think at this stage it needs to be said.
> Have you considered the possibility that you may be slowly dementing?
>
> One of the distinctive symptoms is that talk and writing
> become more and more repetitive and stereotyped.
> New writing becomes a rehash of old writings.
> Individual sentences by themselves still make sense,
> but a overal sense of purpose gradually goes missing.
> Pieces of boilerplate text become established,
> and get inserted to hide a lack of ideas about what to say next.
> The -new information- content of the writing may drop to near zero.
>
> I have seen a study that demonstrated just this.
> It could even detect the first symptoms of the onset
> before the persons themselves and their close relatives
> noticed much.
>
> A well-known case was that of Iris Murdoch.
> In retrospect, the onset of her Alzheimer was already evident
> in het last novel. See for example:
> <https://hdtoday.human.cornell.edu/2017/02/21/alzheimers-early-tell-the-language-of-authors-who-suffered-from-dementia-has-a-story-for-the-rest-of-us/>
>
> for a description of what happened.
>
> I happen to know about a similar case of another author
> who was diagnosed (after a brain scan) with advanced dementia,
> while apparently still functioning more or less normally.
>
> After the necessary unpleasantness,
> there is also a positive message from the experts on this.
> One of the proposed remedies is to keep the brain busy.
> Drop old fixations, take up new subjects, read new books,
> stop talking in always the same ways to always the same people.
>
> It is no cure of course, but it may delay the inevitable.
> And yes, this is an unpleasant message for all of us.
> Many, I guess most of the posters here are at an age
> where they may profit from watching themselves.
> Self-reflection is part of symptom-avoidance too.
>
> Best,
>
> Jan
> (worried)
>
> PS If you look at our sister crackpot group s.p.r. you may see
> some advanced cases still posting there.

Without have done a serious count I would guess that
science.physics.relativity is populated about 50% by sane people with
about 50% nutters. Worse than here, therefore, because although there
are some annoying people here (JTEM springs to mind) I don't think they
are senile. They've probably been just as stupid all their lives as
they are now.

Anyway, years ago I read about something that is now called The Nun
Study of Aging and Alzheimer's Disease. Since then I had thought that
it might have been debunked by now as pop science. But no, it was (and
is) a perfectly serious study by qualified scientists (see Wikipedia:
"Nun Study"). If you don't feel like reading the whole article, the
take-home message is that as early as 18 years old there are
significant pointers to eventual Alzheimer.

--
athel cb : Biochemical Evolution, Garland Science, 2016

On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 11:32:09 PM UTC-5, jillery wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 16:28:44 -0800 (PST), "peter2...@gmail.com"
> <peter2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Why is everyone so defeatist about the end of GG support?

Your comments below do not shed any light on this burning question.
It was established in the OP and in the very title of this thread
[or "Subject: line" if you still use "thread" for a back-and-forth
that does not go into side branches] by Dexter.

> >Jillery why aren't you talking about the alternative sources that you've
> >recently talked about? Wasn't it Eternal September that you complained
> >about "dropping posts"? There was still a hefty percentage of not-dropped
> >ones, weren't there?

> Since you asked, GG is a web-based app for Usenet access.

I knew that ever since I started using Deja News ca. 1995,
which was later taken over by Google to become GG,
which in turn has deteriorated with each "New Google Groups"
while remaining an unbroken app for Usenet access.

> Although that's a straightforward concept, GG went out of its way to implement
> it very poorly.

In fact, in implementing the last revision, its spokepersons told the bare-faced lie
that they were keeping "all your favorite features." This sudden shock
reveals how despicable that lie was.

>So IMO GG was never a legitimate alternative to any
> Usenet server/app combination.

It worked well for those like me who were able to adapt to every miserable change.

Does any other server OR app give access to a t.o. archive going back many years?
The reason I never thought seriously about Giganews is that Harshman
revealed that its archive only goes back one month. Do you know of any
many-years archive to match the record of GG?

>
> By design, Usenet servers would never drop posts; any post propagated
> to one server would automatically propogate to every other server. In
> practice, policy decisions and poor communication rationalized
> dropping posts way more often than circumstances justified.

By GG? the only posts I saw any hint of being dropped were Dexter's,
and I assumed that it was his choice not to have them appear in GG.
Even if I was wrong, it's a great irony that the OP for this thread
[in the sense of most regulars] was by him, very visible in GG.

> Dropped posts by Eternal-September is just the most recent example.
>
> Your personal problem is your refusal to understand the distinction
> between a Usenet server and a Usenet app,

A mere problem of terminology. I don't recall anyone using "app" before this.
The standard terms since 1992 at the latest were "netserver" and "newsreader."
The latter is much more self-explanatory than "app."

> and how to configure a
> Usenet app to a particular Usenet server.

With first "nn" and then Deja News/Google Groups, that was done automatically.
Now, for the first time, I really need to explore the problem of MY
doing such configurations.

>
> You're welcome.

Save that comment for the time you tell me how to get to a server and/or app where
I can start circumventing this latest example of <cough> benign <cough, cough> neglect.

If others beat you to it, they will have a legitimate reason for saying "You're welcome."

Peter Nyikos

Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On 2023-12-15 10:14:31 +0000, J. J. Lodder said:
>
> > RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On 12/14/2023 5:26 PM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
> >>> RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:
> >>>> On 12/14/2023 4:17 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >>>>> RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:
> >>>>>> On 12/12/2023 8:45 PM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
> >>>>> [-]
> >>>>>>> So I should give up on you then? Maybe I don't want to. I agree the
> >>>>>>> collective dogpile has been a bit much but I'd hope you could be more
> >>>>>>> self-reflective.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> You should just give up on what you are currently doing until you
> >>>>>> understand what the situation actually is. Going forward with the same
> >>>>>> misconceptions is just stupid. Get Mark Isaac to explain it to
> >>>>>> you. My guess is that you should have realized by now that you
> >>>>>> should be more self reflective.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ron Okimoto
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Just curious.
> >>>>> Have you ever considered taking your own advice?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Jan
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Have you considered getting together with the others in order to figure
> >>>> out if you want to keep doing the stupid things that are currently
> >>>> occurring?
> >>>>
> >>> Have you considered reading your more repetitive posts from an
> >>> outsider perspective? What if you weren't you? You've already gotten
> >>> enough feedback recently to see what others feel about those types of
> >>> posts so you don't have to ask. Saying all these people are doing
> >>> stupid things is coming from your somewhat blinkered perspective.
> >>>
> >>> As an alternative your "Artifact of Baysian analysis" post has gotten
> >>> positive responses.
> >>>
> >>
> >> I guess that you guys are hopeless.
> >>
> >> Ron Okimoto
> >
> > No doubt.
> > But I have another and less pleasant perspective for you to consider.
> > Unpleasant, but I think at this stage it needs to be said.
> > Have you considered the possibility that you may be slowly dementing?
> >
> > One of the distinctive symptoms is that talk and writing
> > become more and more repetitive and stereotyped.
> > New writing becomes a rehash of old writings.
> > Individual sentences by themselves still make sense,
> > but a overal sense of purpose gradually goes missing.
> > Pieces of boilerplate text become established,
> > and get inserted to hide a lack of ideas about what to say next.
> > The -new information- content of the writing may drop to near zero.
> >
> > I have seen a study that demonstrated just this.
> > It could even detect the first symptoms of the onset
> > before the persons themselves and their close relatives
> > noticed much.
> >
> > A well-known case was that of Iris Murdoch.
> > In retrospect, the onset of her Alzheimer was already evident
> > in het last novel. See for example:
> > <https://hdtoday.human.cornell.edu/2017/02/21/alzheimers-early-tell-the-lang
uage-of-authors-who-suffered-from-dementia-has-a-story-for-the-rest-of-us/>
> >
> > for a description of what happened.
> >
> > I happen to know about a similar case of another author
> > who was diagnosed (after a brain scan) with advanced dementia,
> > while apparently still functioning more or less normally.
> >
> > After the necessary unpleasantness,
> > there is also a positive message from the experts on this.
> > One of the proposed remedies is to keep the brain busy.
> > Drop old fixations, take up new subjects, read new books,
> > stop talking in always the same ways to always the same people.
> >
> > It is no cure of course, but it may delay the inevitable.
> > And yes, this is an unpleasant message for all of us.
> > Many, I guess most of the posters here are at an age
> > where they may profit from watching themselves.
> > Self-reflection is part of symptom-avoidance too.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Jan
> > (worried)
> >
> > PS If you look at our sister crackpot group s.p.r. you may see
> > some advanced cases still posting there.
>
> Without have done a serious count I would guess that
> science.physics.relativity is populated about 50% by sane people with
> about 50% nutters. Worse than here, therefore, because although there
> are some annoying people here (JTEM springs to mind) I don't think they
> are senile. They've probably been just as stupid all their lives as
> they are now.

[For T.O.] There is the sad case there of the man
who invented the theory of everything,
and wrote a whole book about it.
Unfortunately, for all his 'genius', he is incapable
of posting a working weblink to it. (so no one has ever seen it)

> Anyway, years ago I read about something that is now called The Nun
> Study of Aging and Alzheimer's Disease. Since then I had thought that
> it might have been debunked by now as pop science. But no, it was (and
> is) a perfectly serious study by qualified scientists (see Wikipedia:
> "Nun Study").

Explicitly:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nun_Study>

> If you don't feel like reading the whole article, the
> take-home message is that as early as 18 years old there are
> significant pointers to eventual Alzheimer.

Early Alzheimer tends to be overlooked.
(if you are not prepared to see it)

And it seems to be getting worse.
There are good grounds for believing that increased pesticide exposure
is a risk factor for both Alzheimer's and Parkinson's.
(and all of us are getting too much of it)

Jan

*Hemidactylus* <ecphoric@allspamis.invalid> wrote:

> J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
> > RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On 12/14/2023 5:26 PM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
> >>> RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:
> >>>> On 12/14/2023 4:17 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >>>>> RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:
> >>>>>> On 12/12/2023 8:45 PM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
> >>>>> [-]
> >>>>>>> So I should give up on you then? Maybe I don't want to. I agree the
> >>>>>>> collective dogpile has been a bit much but I'd hope you could be more
> >>>>>>> self-reflective.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> You should just give up on what you are currently doing until you
> >>>>>> understand what the situation actually is. Going forward with the same
> >>>>>> misconceptions is just stupid. Get Mark Isaac to explain it to
> >>>>>> you. My guess is that you should have realized by now that you
> >>>>>> should be more self reflective.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ron Okimoto
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Just curious.
> >>>>> Have you ever considered taking your own advice?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Jan
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Have you considered getting together with the others in order to figure
> >>>> out if you want to keep doing the stupid things that are currently
> >>>> occurring?
> >>>>
> >>> Have you considered reading your more repetitive posts from an
> >>> outsider perspective? What if you weren't you? You've already gotten
> >>> enough feedback recently to see what others feel about those types of
> >>> posts so you don't have to ask. Saying all these people are doing
> >>> stupid things is coming from your somewhat blinkered perspective.
> >>>
> >>> As an alternative your "Artifact of Baysian analysis" post has gotten
> >>> positive responses.
> >>>
> >>
> >> I guess that you guys are hopeless.
> >>
> >> Ron Okimoto
> >
> > No doubt.
> > But I have another and less pleasant perspective for you to consider.
> > Unpleasant, but I think at this stage it needs to be said.
> > Have you considered the possibility that you may be slowly dementing?
> >
> > One of the distinctive symptoms is that talk and writing
> > become more and more repetitive and stereotyped.
> > New writing becomes a rehash of old writings.
> > Individual sentences by themselves still make sense,
> > but a overal sense of purpose gradually goes missing.
> > Pieces of boilerplate text become established,
> > and get inserted to hide a lack of ideas about what to say next.
> > The -new information- content of the writing may drop to near zero.
> >
> > I have seen a study that demonstrated just this.
> > It could even detect the first symptoms of the onset
> > before the persons themselves and their close relatives
> > noticed much.
> >
> > A well-known case was that of Iris Murdoch.
> > In retrospect, the onset of her Alzheimer was already evident
> > in het last novel. See for example:
> > <https://hdtoday.human.cornell.edu/2017/02/21/alzheimers-early-tell-the-lang
uage-of-authors-who-suffered-from-dementia-has-a-story-for-the-rest-of-us/>
> > for a description of what happened.
> >
> > I happen to know about a similar case of another author
> > who was diagnosed (after a brain scan) with advanced dementia,
> > while apparently still functioning more or less normally.
> >
> > After the necessary unpleasantness,
> > there is also a positive message from the experts on this.
> > One of the proposed remedies is to keep the brain busy.
> > Drop old fixations, take up new subjects, read new books,
> > stop talking in always the same ways to always the same people.
> >
> > It is no cure of course, but it may delay the inevitable.
> > And yes, this is an unpleasant message for all of us.
> > Many, I guess most of the posters here are at an age
> > where they may profit from watching themselves.
> > Self-reflection is part of symptom-avoidance too.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Jan
> > (worried)
> >
> > PS If you look at our sister crackpot group s.p.r. you may see
> > some advanced cases still posting there.
> >
> This speculative online diagnosis is a load of crap JJ.

Let's hope so,

Jan
(but do look at the reply)

On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 06:53:16 -0800 (PST), "peter2...@gmail.com"
<peter2nyikos@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 11:32:09?PM UTC-5, jillery wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 16:28:44 -0800 (PST), "peter2...@gmail.com"
>> <peter2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Why is everyone so defeatist about the end of GG support?
>
>Your comments below do not shed any light on this burning question.

That burning question above doesn't inform your burning question
below. Make up your mind.

>It was established in the OP and in the very title of this thread
>[or "Subject: line" if you still use "thread" for a back-and-forth
>that does not go into side branches] by Dexter.
>
>> >Jillery why aren't you talking about the alternative sources that you've
>> >recently talked about? Wasn't it Eternal September that you complained
>> >about "dropping posts"? There was still a hefty percentage of not-dropped
>> >ones, weren't there?
>
>> Since you asked, GG is a web-based app for Usenet access.
>
>I knew that ever since I started using Deja News ca. 1995,
>which was later taken over by Google to become GG,
>which in turn has deteriorated with each "New Google Groups"
>while remaining an unbroken app for Usenet access.
>
>
>
>> Although that's a straightforward concept, GG went out of its way to implement
>> it very poorly.
>
>In fact, in implementing the last revision, its spokepersons told the bare-faced lie
>that they were keeping "all your favorite features." This sudden shock
>reveals how despicable that lie was.
>
>
>>So IMO GG was never a legitimate alternative to any
>> Usenet server/app combination.
>
>It worked well for those like me who were able to adapt to every miserable change.
>
>Does any other server OR app give access to a t.o. archive going back many years?
>The reason I never thought seriously about Giganews is that Harshman
>revealed that its archive only goes back one month. Do you know of any
>many-years archive to match the record of GG?
>
>
>>
>> By design, Usenet servers would never drop posts; any post propagated
>> to one server would automatically propogate to every other server. In
>> practice, policy decisions and poor communication rationalized
>> dropping posts way more often than circumstances justified.
>
>By GG? the only posts I saw any hint of being dropped were Dexter's,
>and I assumed that it was his choice not to have them appear in GG.
>Even if I was wrong, it's a great irony that the OP for this thread
>[in the sense of most regulars] was by him, very visible in GG.
>
>
>> Dropped posts by Eternal-September is just the most recent example.
>>
>> Your personal problem is your refusal to understand the distinction
>> between a Usenet server and a Usenet app,
>
>A mere problem of terminology. I don't recall anyone using "app" before this.
>The standard terms since 1992 at the latest were "netserver" and "newsreader."
>The latter is much more self-explanatory than "app."

What terms you use aren't your problem. That you fail to understand
the client/server relationship is your problem. You also fail to
understand that different apps solve different problems.

>> and how to configure a
>> Usenet app to a particular Usenet server.
>
>With first "nn" and then Deja News/Google Groups, that was done automatically.
>Now, for the first time, I really need to explore the problem of MY
>doing such configurations.
>
>>
>> You're welcome.
>
>Save that comment for the time you tell me how to get to a server and/or app where
>I can start circumventing this latest example of <cough> benign <cough, cough> neglect.

Save your comments for the time you stop ignoring the answers I
provide.

>If others beat you to it, they will have a legitimate reason for saying "You're welcome."
>
>
>Peter Nyikos

--
To know less than we don't know is the nature of most knowledge

On 12/15/23 6:53 AM, peter2...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 11:32:09 PM UTC-5, jillery wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 16:28:44 -0800 (PST), "peter2...@gmail.com"
>> <peter2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Why is everyone so defeatist about the end of GG support?
>
> Your comments below do not shed any light on this burning question.
> It was established in the OP and in the very title of this thread
> [or "Subject: line" if you still use "thread" for a back-and-forth
> that does not go into side branches] by Dexter.
>
>>> Jillery why aren't you talking about the alternative sources that you've
>>> recently talked about? Wasn't it Eternal September that you complained
>>> about "dropping posts"? There was still a hefty percentage of not-dropped
>>> ones, weren't there?
>
>> Since you asked, GG is a web-based app for Usenet access.
>
> I knew that ever since I started using Deja News ca. 1995,
> which was later taken over by Google to become GG,
> which in turn has deteriorated with each "New Google Groups"
> while remaining an unbroken app for Usenet access.
>
>
>
>> Although that's a straightforward concept, GG went out of its way to implement
>> it very poorly.
>
> In fact, in implementing the last revision, its spokepersons told the bare-faced lie
> that they were keeping "all your favorite features." This sudden shock
> reveals how despicable that lie was.
>
>
>> So IMO GG was never a legitimate alternative to any
>> Usenet server/app combination.
>
> It worked well for those like me who were able to adapt to every miserable change.
>
> Does any other server OR app give access to a t.o. archive going back many years?
> The reason I never thought seriously about Giganews is that Harshman
> revealed that its archive only goes back one month. Do you know of any
> many-years archive to match the record of GG?
>
>
>>
>> By design, Usenet servers would never drop posts; any post propagated
>> to one server would automatically propogate to every other server. In
>> practice, policy decisions and poor communication rationalized
>> dropping posts way more often than circumstances justified.
>
> By GG? the only posts I saw any hint of being dropped were Dexter's,
> and I assumed that it was his choice not to have them appear in GG.
> Even if I was wrong, it's a great irony that the OP for this thread
> [in the sense of most regulars] was by him, very visible in GG.
>
>
>> Dropped posts by Eternal-September is just the most recent example.
>>
>> Your personal problem is your refusal to understand the distinction
>> between a Usenet server and a Usenet app,
>
> A mere problem of terminology. I don't recall anyone using "app" before this.
> The standard terms since 1992 at the latest were "netserver" and "newsreader."
> The latter is much more self-explanatory than "app."
>
>> and how to configure a
>> Usenet app to a particular Usenet server.
>
> With first "nn" and then Deja News/Google Groups, that was done automatically.
> Now, for the first time, I really need to explore the problem of MY
> doing such configurations.
>
>>
>> You're welcome.
>
> Save that comment for the time you tell me how to get to a server and/or app where
> I can start circumventing this latest example of <cough> benign <cough, cough> neglect.
>
> If others beat you to it, they will have a legitimate reason for saying "You're welcome."
>
>
> Peter Nyikos
>
I don't know what operating system you use to access GG, but if you know
what "Thunderbird" is (it's a mail reader, probably available for
whatever computer you've got) I can give you a step-by-step process for
setting up Eternal September as a newsgroup client in Thunderbird. This
isn't a trap, so don't rail at me for insoincerity or whatever.

BTW, Merry Christmas. Enjoy the break.

On Saturday, December 16, 2023 at 12:02:10 PM UTC-5, erik simpson wrote:
> On 12/15/23 6:53 AM, peter2...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 11:32:09 PM UTC-5, jillery wrote:
> >> On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 16:28:44 -0800 (PST), "peter2...@gmail.com"
> >> <peter2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Why is everyone so defeatist about the end of GG support?
> >
> > Your comments below do not shed any light on this burning question.
> > It was established in the OP and in the very title of this thread
> > [or "Subject: line" if you still use "thread" for a back-and-forth
> > that does not go into side branches] by Dexter.
> >
> >>> Jillery why aren't you talking about the alternative sources that you've
> >>> recently talked about? Wasn't it Eternal September that you complained
> >>> about "dropping posts"? There was still a hefty percentage of not-dropped
> >>> ones, weren't there?
> >
> >> Since you asked, GG is a web-based app for Usenet access.
> >
> > I knew that ever since I started using Deja News ca. 1995,
> > which was later taken over by Google to become GG,
> > which in turn has deteriorated with each "New Google Groups"
> > while remaining an unbroken app for Usenet access.
> >
> >
> >
> >> Although that's a straightforward concept, GG went out of its way to implement
> >> it very poorly.
> >
> > In fact, in implementing the last revision, its spokepersons told the bare-faced lie
> > that they were keeping "all your favorite features." This sudden shock
> > reveals how despicable that lie was.
> >
> >
> >> So IMO GG was never a legitimate alternative to any
> >> Usenet server/app combination.
> >
> > It worked well for those like me who were able to adapt to every miserable change.
> >
> > Does any other server OR app give access to a t.o. archive going back many years?
> > The reason I never thought seriously about Giganews is that Harshman
> > revealed that its archive only goes back one month. Do you know of any
> > many-years archive to match the record of GG?
> >
> >
> >>
> >> By design, Usenet servers would never drop posts; any post propagated
> >> to one server would automatically propogate to every other server. In
> >> practice, policy decisions and poor communication rationalized
> >> dropping posts way more often than circumstances justified.
> >
> > By GG? the only posts I saw any hint of being dropped were Dexter's,
> > and I assumed that it was his choice not to have them appear in GG.
> > Even if I was wrong, it's a great irony that the OP for this thread
> > [in the sense of most regulars] was by him, very visible in GG.
> >
> >
> >> Dropped posts by Eternal-September is just the most recent example.
> >>
> >> Your personal problem is your refusal to understand the distinction
> >> between a Usenet server and a Usenet app,
> >
> > A mere problem of terminology. I don't recall anyone using "app" before this.
> > The standard terms since 1992 at the latest were "netserver" and "newsreader."
> > The latter is much more self-explanatory than "app."
> >
> >> and how to configure a
> >> Usenet app to a particular Usenet server.
> >
> > With first "nn" and then Deja News/Google Groups, that was done automatically.
> > Now, for the first time, I really need to explore the problem of MY
> > doing such configurations.
> >
> >>
> >> You're welcome.
> >
> > Save that comment for the time you tell me how to get to a server and/or app where
> > I can start circumventing this latest example of <cough> benign <cough, cough> neglect.
> >
> > If others beat you to it, they will have a legitimate reason for saying "You're welcome."
> >
> >
> > Peter Nyikos
> >
> I don't know what operating system you use to access GG, but if you know
> what "Thunderbird" is (it's a mail reader, probably available for
> whatever computer you've got)

My university subscribed to it for years, but dropped it in favor ot
the mostly inferior (and predatory) Microsoft Outlook. It wouldn't take long to
get good at it again.

> I can give you a step-by-step process for
> setting up Eternal September as a newsgroup client in Thunderbird. This
> isn't a trap, so don't rail at me for insoincerity or whatever.

Thanks, Erik. I might take you up on that after my break is over.

> BTW, Merry Christmas. Enjoy the break.

And a merry Winter Solstice (or whatever you celebrate this time of year) to you.

Peter Nyikos

On Friday, December 15, 2023 at 10:07:09 AM UTC-5, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> *Hemidactylus* <ecph...@allspamis.invalid> wrote:
> > J. J. Lodder <nos...@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
> > > RonO <roki...@cox.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >> On 12/14/2023 5:26 PM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
> > >>> RonO <roki...@cox.net> wrote:
> > >>>> On 12/14/2023 4:17 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > >>>>> RonO <roki...@cox.net> wrote:
> > >>>>>> On 12/12/2023 8:45 PM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
> > >>>>> [-]
> > >>>>>>> So I should give up on you then? Maybe I don't want to. I agree the
> > >>>>>>> collective dogpile has been a bit much but I'd hope you could be more
> > >>>>>>> self-reflective.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> You should just give up on what you are currently doing until you
> > >>>>>> understand what the situation actually is. Going forward with the same
> > >>>>>> misconceptions is just stupid. Get Mark Isaac to explain it to
> > >>>>>> you. My guess is that you should have realized by now that you
> > >>>>>> should be more self reflective.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Ron Okimoto
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Just curious.
> > >>>>> Have you ever considered taking your own advice?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Jan
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Have you considered getting together with the others in order to figure
> > >>>> out if you want to keep doing the stupid things that are currently
> > >>>> occurring?
> > >>>>
> > >>> Have you considered reading your more repetitive posts from an
> > >>> outsider perspective? What if you weren't you? You've already gotten
> > >>> enough feedback recently to see what others feel about those types of
> > >>> posts so you don't have to ask. Saying all these people are doing
> > >>> stupid things is coming from your somewhat blinkered perspective.
> > >>>
> > >>> As an alternative your "Artifact of Baysian analysis" post has gotten
> > >>> positive responses.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> I guess that you guys are hopeless.
> > >>
> > >> Ron Okimoto
> > >
> > > No doubt.
> > > But I have another and less pleasant perspective for you to consider.
> > > Unpleasant, but I think at this stage it needs to be said.
> > > Have you considered the possibility that you may be slowly dementing?
> > >
> > > One of the distinctive symptoms is that talk and writing
> > > become more and more repetitive and stereotyped.
> > > New writing becomes a rehash of old writings.
> > > Individual sentences by themselves still make sense,
> > > but a overal sense of purpose gradually goes missing.
> > > Pieces of boilerplate text become established,
> > > and get inserted to hide a lack of ideas about what to say next.
> > > The -new information- content of the writing may drop to near zero.
> > >
> > > I have seen a study that demonstrated just this.
> > > It could even detect the first symptoms of the onset
> > > before the persons themselves and their close relatives
> > > noticed much.
> > >
> > > A well-known case was that of Iris Murdoch.
> > > In retrospect, the onset of her Alzheimer was already evident
> > > in het last novel. See for example:

> > > <https://hdtoday.human.cornell.edu/2017/02/21/alzheimers-early-tell-the-lang uage-of-authors-who-suffered-from-dementia-has-a-story-for-the-rest-of-us/>

> > > for a description of what happened.
> > >
> > > I happen to know about a similar case of another author
> > > who was diagnosed (after a brain scan) with advanced dementia,
> > > while apparently still functioning more or less normally.
> > >
> > > After the necessary unpleasantness,
> > > there is also a positive message from the experts on this.
> > > One of the proposed remedies is to keep the brain busy.
> > > Drop old fixations, take up new subjects, read new books,
> > > stop talking in always the same ways to always the same people.
> > >
> > > It is no cure of course, but it may delay the inevitable.
> > > And yes, this is an unpleasant message for all of us.
> > > Many, I guess most of the posters here are at an age
> > > where they may profit from watching themselves.
> > > Self-reflection is part of symptom-avoidance too.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Jan
> > > (worried)
> > >
> > > PS If you look at our sister crackpot group s.p.r. you may see
> > > some advanced cases still posting there.
> > >
> > This speculative online diagnosis is a load of crap JJ.

There is probably some truth to your diagnosis of a lesser flaw in Ron Okimoto's
behavior, JJ, but even if it is completely on target, it misses what is
the most serious flaw in his behavior: he is a pathological liar.
It also misses out on the fact that he is still pretty good at composing
on-topic posts where he isn't on his anti-ID soapbox.

Before getting into that, I have a paragraph on your "diagnosis"
that segues into mine at the end.

Back in 2011 there was still some responsiveness in him
to what I wrote, but it was mostly for the worse. When I characterized his
dismissal of me with "[soon there will be] nothing left but a twitching sphincter,"
he realized that "sadism" was a dandy stick to hit opponents over the head with,
and falsely accusing me of sadism became one of the themes in
his overall campaign of character assassination against me.

This campaign climaxed earlier this year in an effort to get DIG
to ban me from talk.origins. It was precipitated by a mild criticism by me
of an on-topic post by him on woolly rhinoceroses. He had misread
a graph and put the decline of the population of their ancestors
in the wrong time frame.

He never dared to reply directly to my posts, and instead went
on an orgy of libel, falsely accusing me of copious lying,
yet never describing a specific example -- because there were none.

His charge of sadism had morphed into a claim of "assoholic behavior"
coupled with a rhetorical question of why the participants of talk.origins
should have to put up with me.

His email to DIG was a pack of lies, but it was intense enough
to make DIG investigate what was going on, and he responded
with two public posts. He not only declined to ban me, but
he said I was "Something of a Usenet legend," and said
that he wanted people to refrain from "repetitious" accusations of lying
without naming Ron O specifically.

> Let's hope so,
>
> Jan
> (but do look at the reply)

Which one? the one you made to Athel? It's more on the same theme
of incipient Alzheimer's.

Peter Nyikos
Professor, Dept. of Mathematics -- standard disclaimer--
Univ. of South Carolina at Columbia
http://people.math.sc.edu/nyikos

On 12/18/23 4:41 AM, peter2...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, December 16, 2023 at 12:02:10 PM UTC-5, erik simpson wrote:
>> On 12/15/23 6:53 AM, peter2...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 11:32:09 PM UTC-5, jillery wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 16:28:44 -0800 (PST), "peter2...@gmail.com"
>>>> <peter2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Why is everyone so defeatist about the end of GG support?
>>>
>>> Your comments below do not shed any light on this burning question.
>>> It was established in the OP and in the very title of this thread
>>> [or "Subject: line" if you still use "thread" for a back-and-forth
>>> that does not go into side branches] by Dexter.
>>>
>>>>> Jillery why aren't you talking about the alternative sources that you've
>>>>> recently talked about? Wasn't it Eternal September that you complained
>>>>> about "dropping posts"? There was still a hefty percentage of not-dropped
>>>>> ones, weren't there?
>>>
>>>> Since you asked, GG is a web-based app for Usenet access.
>>>
>>> I knew that ever since I started using Deja News ca. 1995,
>>> which was later taken over by Google to become GG,
>>> which in turn has deteriorated with each "New Google Groups"
>>> while remaining an unbroken app for Usenet access.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Although that's a straightforward concept, GG went out of its way to implement
>>>> it very poorly.
>>>
>>> In fact, in implementing the last revision, its spokepersons told the bare-faced lie
>>> that they were keeping "all your favorite features." This sudden shock
>>> reveals how despicable that lie was.
>>>
>>>
>>>> So IMO GG was never a legitimate alternative to any
>>>> Usenet server/app combination.
>>>
>>> It worked well for those like me who were able to adapt to every miserable change.
>>>
>>> Does any other server OR app give access to a t.o. archive going back many years?
>>> The reason I never thought seriously about Giganews is that Harshman
>>> revealed that its archive only goes back one month. Do you know of any
>>> many-years archive to match the record of GG?
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> By design, Usenet servers would never drop posts; any post propagated
>>>> to one server would automatically propogate to every other server. In
>>>> practice, policy decisions and poor communication rationalized
>>>> dropping posts way more often than circumstances justified.
>>>
>>> By GG? the only posts I saw any hint of being dropped were Dexter's,
>>> and I assumed that it was his choice not to have them appear in GG.
>>> Even if I was wrong, it's a great irony that the OP for this thread
>>> [in the sense of most regulars] was by him, very visible in GG.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dropped posts by Eternal-September is just the most recent example.
>>>>
>>>> Your personal problem is your refusal to understand the distinction
>>>> between a Usenet server and a Usenet app,
>>>
>>> A mere problem of terminology. I don't recall anyone using "app" before this.
>>> The standard terms since 1992 at the latest were "netserver" and "newsreader."
>>> The latter is much more self-explanatory than "app."
>>>
>>>> and how to configure a
>>>> Usenet app to a particular Usenet server.
>>>
>>> With first "nn" and then Deja News/Google Groups, that was done automatically.
>>> Now, for the first time, I really need to explore the problem of MY
>>> doing such configurations.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> You're welcome.
>>>
>>> Save that comment for the time you tell me how to get to a server and/or app where
>>> I can start circumventing this latest example of <cough> benign <cough, cough> neglect.
>>>
>>> If others beat you to it, they will have a legitimate reason for saying "You're welcome."
>>>
>>>
>>> Peter Nyikos
>>>
>> I don't know what operating system you use to access GG, but if you know
>> what "Thunderbird" is (it's a mail reader, probably available for
>> whatever computer you've got)
>
> My university subscribed to it for years, but dropped it in favor ot
> the mostly inferior (and predatory) Microsoft Outlook. It wouldn't take long to
> get good at it again.
>
> > I can give you a step-by-step process for
>> setting up Eternal September as a newsgroup client in Thunderbird. This
>> isn't a trap, so don't rail at me for insoincerity or whatever.
>
> Thanks, Erik. I might take you up on that after my break is over.
>
>> BTW, Merry Christmas. Enjoy the break.
>
> And a merry Winter Solstice (or whatever you celebrate this time of year) to you.
>
>
> Peter Nyikos
>
Thank you! I celebrate everything I can. (This reply is coing from
Thunderbird, BTW).

peter2...@gmail.com <peter2nyikos@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Friday, December 15, 2023 at 10:07:09?AM UTC-5, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > *Hemidactylus* <ecph...@allspamis.invalid> wrote:
> > > J. J. Lodder <nos...@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
[best forgotten stuff]

> There is probably some truth to your diagnosis of a lesser flaw in Ron
> Okimoto's behavior, JJ, but even if it is completely on target, it misses
> what is the most serious flaw in his behavior: he is a pathological liar.

Dear Peter,
you realy shouldn't be posting to T.O. in this way.
Could you stop with it?

> Back in 2011 [-]

Could you stop that to?

Jan