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interests / talk.origins / Why deuterostomes?

SubjectAuthor
* Why deuterostomes?Ted
`* Re: Why deuterostomes?John Harshman
 `* Re: Why deuterostomes?Ted
  `* Re: Why deuterostomes?John Harshman
   `- Re: Why deuterostomes?Ted

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Why deuterostomes?

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From: ted.str...@gmail.com (Ted)
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Why deuterostomes?
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 by: Ted - Wed, 6 Mar 2024 18:44 UTC

I recently read about the difference between protostomes and
deuterostomes. Are there any ideas why they reversed the order?

Re: Why deuterostomes?

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From: john.har...@gmail.com (John Harshman)
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Why deuterostomes?
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 by: John Harshman - Wed, 6 Mar 2024 21:54 UTC

On 3/6/24 10:44 AM, Ted wrote:
> I recently read about the difference between protostomes and
> deuterostomes. Are there any ideas why they reversed the order?
>
None to my knowledge. Nor do we know which came first. And there are at
least two separate groups with the deuterostome condition, since
brachiopods do.

Re: Why deuterostomes?

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From: ted.str...@gmail.com (Ted)
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Why deuterostomes?
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 by: Ted - Thu, 7 Mar 2024 16:10 UTC

John Harshman wrote:

> On 3/6/24 10:44 AM, Ted wrote:
> > I recently read about the difference between protostomes and
> > deuterostomes. Are there any ideas why they reversed the order?
> >

> None to my knowledge. Nor do we know which came first. And there are
> at least two separate groups with the deuterostome condition, since
> brachiopods do.

Thanks John. Wow. Then the deuterostomes arose twice?

Re: Why deuterostomes?

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From: john.har...@gmail.com (John Harshman)
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Why deuterostomes?
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 by: John Harshman - Thu, 7 Mar 2024 17:33 UTC

On 3/7/24 8:10 AM, Ted wrote:
> John Harshman wrote:
>
>> On 3/6/24 10:44 AM, Ted wrote:
>>> I recently read about the difference between protostomes and
>>> deuterostomes. Are there any ideas why they reversed the order?
>>>
>
>> None to my knowledge. Nor do we know which came first. And there are
>> at least two separate groups with the deuterostome condition, since
>> brachiopods do.
>
>
> Thanks John. Wow. Then the deuterostomes arose twice?
>
Technically, no. The deuterostomes are a monophyletic taxon that
includes chordates, echinoderms, and hemichordates. It's just that other
groups also have the blastopore give rise to the anus. You wouldn't say
that birds arose twice because bats have wings. And it might also be
that deuterostomy is primitive, so that it's protostomy that arose more
than once.

Re: Why deuterostomes?

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From: ted.str...@gmail.com (Ted)
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Why deuterostomes?
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 by: Ted - Sun, 10 Mar 2024 22:55 UTC

John Harshman wrote:

> On 3/7/24 8:10 AM, Ted wrote:
> > John Harshman wrote:
> >
> > > On 3/6/24 10:44 AM, Ted wrote:
> > > > I recently read about the difference between protostomes and
> > > > deuterostomes. Are there any ideas why they reversed the order?
> > > >
> >
> > > None to my knowledge. Nor do we know which came first. And there
> > > are at least two separate groups with the deuterostome condition,
> > > since brachiopods do.
> >
> >
> > Thanks John. Wow. Then the deuterostomes arose twice?
> >
> Technically, no. The deuterostomes are a monophyletic taxon that
> includes chordates, echinoderms, and hemichordates. It's just that
> other groups also have the blastopore give rise to the anus. You
> wouldn't say that birds arose twice because bats have wings. And it
> might also be that deuterostomy is primitive, so that it's protostomy
> that arose more than once.

Thanks John.

interests / talk.origins / Why deuterostomes?

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