THIS IS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME WEALTHY. A $10,000.000 PRIZE.

IF EVOLUTION IS A REALITY OF NATURE. THERE IS NO REASON FOR SOMEONE
_NOT_ TO WIN THIS PRIZE.

EVOLUTION 2.0 PRIZE KEY FACTS:
Evolution 2.0 is a $10 million technology prize backed by a private
equity investment group formed to identify a naturally occurring code.
The Prize came about from the group’s inaugural meeting May 31, 2019, at
The Royal Society of Great Britain.

The judges are:
George Church. Denis Noble, Michael Ruse

https://evo2.org/theprize/

Ron Dean <rondean-noreply@gmail.com> writes:

> THIS IS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME WEALTHY. A $10,000.000 PRIZE.
>
> IF EVOLUTION IS A REALITY OF NATURE. THERE IS NO REASON FOR SOMEONE
> _NOT_ TO WIN THIS PRIZE.
>
> EVOLUTION 2.0 PRIZE KEY FACTS: Evolution 2.0 is a $10 million
> technology prize backed by a private equity investment group formed to
> identify a naturally occurring code. The Prize came about from the
> group’s inaugural meeting May 31, 2019, at The Royal Society of Great
> Britain.
>
> The judges are: George Church. Denis Noble, Michael Ruse
>
> https://evo2.org/theprize/

What do you mean by code? Like a dress code?

On 3/19/24 10:06 AM, Richmond wrote:
> Ron Dean <rondean-noreply@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> THIS IS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME WEALTHY. A $10,000.000 PRIZE.
>>
>> IF EVOLUTION IS A REALITY OF NATURE. THERE IS NO REASON FOR SOMEONE
>> _NOT_ TO WIN THIS PRIZE.
>>
>> EVOLUTION 2.0 PRIZE KEY FACTS: Evolution 2.0 is a $10 million
>> technology prize backed by a private equity investment group formed to
>> identify a naturally occurring code. The Prize came about from the
>> group’s inaugural meeting May 31, 2019, at The Royal Society of Great
>> Britain.
>>
>> The judges are: George Church. Denis Noble, Michael Ruse
>>
>> https://evo2.org/theprize/
>
> What do you mean by code? Like a dress code?
>
I have sneaking suspicion nobody's going to win this. This isn't new;
it's been around since 2006, maybe earlier. There's even a book:
https://www.amazon.com/Evolution-2-0-Breaking-Deadlock-Between/dp/1940363802

The usual "atheists vs. ID proponents" are featured.

erik simpson <eastside.erik@gmail.com> writes:

> On 3/19/24 10:06 AM, Richmond wrote:
>> Ron Dean <rondean-noreply@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> THIS IS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME WEALTHY. A $10,000.000 PRIZE.
>>>
>>> IF EVOLUTION IS A REALITY OF NATURE. THERE IS NO REASON FOR SOMEONE
>>> _NOT_ TO WIN THIS PRIZE.
>>>
>>> EVOLUTION 2.0 PRIZE KEY FACTS: Evolution 2.0 is a $10 million
>>> technology prize backed by a private equity investment group formed to
>>> identify a naturally occurring code. The Prize came about from the
>>> group’s inaugural meeting May 31, 2019, at The Royal Society of Great
>>> Britain.
>>>
>>> The judges are: George Church. Denis Noble, Michael Ruse
>>>
>>> https://evo2.org/theprize/
>> What do you mean by code? Like a dress code?
>>
> I have sneaking suspicion nobody's going to win this. This isn't new;
> it's been around since 2006, maybe earlier. There's even a book:
> https://www.amazon.com/Evolution-2-0-Breaking-Deadlock-Between/dp/1940363802
>
> The usual "atheists vs. ID proponents" are featured.

That page appears to have the answer, DNA is a code. DNA is naturally
occuring. I claim my $10 million dollars. I'd like it paid in
gold.

On 3/19/24 10:33 AM, Richmond wrote:
> erik simpson <eastside.erik@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On 3/19/24 10:06 AM, Richmond wrote:
>>> Ron Dean <rondean-noreply@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> THIS IS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME WEALTHY. A $10,000.000 PRIZE.
>>>>
>>>> IF EVOLUTION IS A REALITY OF NATURE. THERE IS NO REASON FOR SOMEONE
>>>> _NOT_ TO WIN THIS PRIZE.
>>>>
>>>> EVOLUTION 2.0 PRIZE KEY FACTS: Evolution 2.0 is a $10 million
>>>> technology prize backed by a private equity investment group formed to
>>>> identify a naturally occurring code. The Prize came about from the
>>>> group’s inaugural meeting May 31, 2019, at The Royal Society of Great
>>>> Britain.
>>>>
>>>> The judges are: George Church. Denis Noble, Michael Ruse
>>>>
>>>> https://evo2.org/theprize/
>>> What do you mean by code? Like a dress code?
>>>
>> I have sneaking suspicion nobody's going to win this. This isn't new;
>> it's been around since 2006, maybe earlier. There's even a book:
>> https://www.amazon.com/Evolution-2-0-Breaking-Deadlock-Between/dp/1940363802
>>
>> The usual "atheists vs. ID proponents" are featured.
>
> That page appears to have the answer, DNA is a code. DNA is naturally
> occuring. I claim my $10 million dollars. I'd like it paid in
> gold.
>
Good luck!

On 3/19/24 10:01 AM, Ron Dean wrote:
>
> THIS IS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME WEALTHY. A $10,000.000 PRIZE.
>
> IF EVOLUTION IS A REALITY OF NATURE.  THERE IS NO REASON FOR SOMEONE
> _NOT_ TO WIN THIS PRIZE.
>
> EVOLUTION 2.0 PRIZE KEY FACTS:
> Evolution 2.0 is a $10 million technology prize backed by a private
> equity investment group formed to identify a naturally occurring code.
> The Prize came about from the group’s inaugural meeting May 31, 2019, at
> The Royal Society of Great Britain.
>
> The judges are:
> George Church. Denis Noble, Michael Ruse
>
> https://evo2.org/theprize/
>
How would you recognize a naturally occurring code? And why isn't the
genetic code an example therof?

On 2024-03-19 17:42:43 +0000, John Harshman said:

> On 3/19/24 10:01 AM, Ron Dean wrote:
>>
>> THIS IS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME WEALTHY. A $10,000.000 PRIZE.
>>
>> IF EVOLUTION IS A REALITY OF NATURE.  THERE IS NO REASON FOR SOMEONE
>> _NOT_ TO WIN THIS PRIZE.
>>
>> EVOLUTION 2.0 PRIZE KEY FACTS:
>> Evolution 2.0 is a $10 million technology prize backed by a private
>> equity investment group formed to identify a naturally occurring code.
>> The Prize came about from the group’s inaugural meeting May 31, 2019,
>> at The Royal Society of Great Britain.
>>
>> The judges are:
>> George Church. Denis Noble, Michael Ruse
>>
>> https://evo2.org/theprize/
>>
> How would you recognize a naturally occurring code? And why isn't the
> genetic code an example therof?

Not to mention several others described by Marcello Barbieri in his
book The Organic Codes.

--
athel cb : Biochemical Evolution, Garland Science, 2016

On 3/19/24 10:58 AM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2024-03-19 17:42:43 +0000, John Harshman said:
>
>> On 3/19/24 10:01 AM, Ron Dean wrote:
>>>
>>> THIS IS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME WEALTHY. A $10,000.000 PRIZE.
>>>
>>> IF EVOLUTION IS A REALITY OF NATURE.  THERE IS NO REASON FOR SOMEONE
>>> _NOT_ TO WIN THIS PRIZE.
>>>
>>> EVOLUTION 2.0 PRIZE KEY FACTS:
>>> Evolution 2.0 is a $10 million technology prize backed by a private
>>> equity investment group formed to identify a naturally occurring code.
>>> The Prize came about from the group’s inaugural meeting May 31,
>>> 2019, at The Royal Society of Great Britain.
>>>
>>> The judges are:
>>> George Church. Denis Noble, Michael Ruse
>>>
>>> https://evo2.org/theprize/
>>>
>> How would you recognize a naturally occurring code? And why isn't the
>> genetic code an example therof?
>
> Not to mention several others described by Marcello Barbieri in his book
> The Organic Codes.
>
>
Maybe if he finds the necessary changes t0 the Standard Model and
quantizes General Relativity he'll collect.

On 19/03/2024 17:33, Richmond wrote:
> erik simpson <eastside.erik@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On 3/19/24 10:06 AM, Richmond wrote:
>>> Ron Dean <rondean-noreply@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> THIS IS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME WEALTHY. A $10,000.000 PRIZE.
>>>>
>>>> IF EVOLUTION IS A REALITY OF NATURE. THERE IS NO REASON FOR SOMEONE
>>>> _NOT_ TO WIN THIS PRIZE.
>>>>
>>>> EVOLUTION 2.0 PRIZE KEY FACTS: Evolution 2.0 is a $10 million
>>>> technology prize backed by a private equity investment group formed to
>>>> identify a naturally occurring code. The Prize came about from the
>>>> group’s inaugural meeting May 31, 2019, at The Royal Society of Great
>>>> Britain.
>>>>
>>>> The judges are: George Church. Denis Noble, Michael Ruse
>>>>
>>>> https://evo2.org/theprize/
>>> What do you mean by code? Like a dress code?
>>>
>> I have sneaking suspicion nobody's going to win this. This isn't new;
>> it's been around since 2006, maybe earlier. There's even a book:
>> https://www.amazon.com/Evolution-2-0-Breaking-Deadlock-Between/dp/1940363802
>>
>> The usual "atheists vs. ID proponents" are featured.
>
> That page appears to have the answer, DNA is a code. DNA is naturally
> occuring. I claim my $10 million dollars. I'd like it paid in
> gold.
>

Ron Dean conflated abiogenesis and evolution. The challenge is to cause
the equivalent of the genetic code to spontaneously form in real time.
You can't point to the evolution of SARS-COV-2 in real time to win the
prize, but that doesn't mean that the evolution of SARS-COV-2 isn't part
of the reality of nature. (Alternatively, stellar evolution is part of
the reality of nature, but that doesn't mean that one can reasonably
expect to form a star in the laboratory.)

Ron Dean also misrepresented the criterion for winning. As stated
previously, the challenge is not to identify a code, but to cause one to
form spontaneously in real time.

Ron Dean may have provided the wrong link. If my memory serves me
correctly there's a creationist "prize" on superficially similar lines.

A couple of other comments. I wondered what would happen if someone
submitted ChatGPT as a contender for the prize, but reading the finer
print, the requirement is for a chemical process. Spiegelman's monster
is a chemical, and similar structures form spontaneously from systems of
nucleotides and a RNA-dependent RNA polymerase, but I guess that doesn't
qualify as a code. Other out of the box ideas are index minerals and
Fraunhofer lines in stellar spectra (but the latter works on the atomic,
rather than the molecular level).

This also reminds me of Kaufmann's self-organisation research program,
which I have the impression gave better results in relation to ecology
that to abiogenesis.

--
alias Ernest Major

On 19/03/2024 17:42, John Harshman wrote:
> On 3/19/24 10:01 AM, Ron Dean wrote:
>>
>> THIS IS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME WEALTHY. A $10,000.000 PRIZE.
>>
>> IF EVOLUTION IS A REALITY OF NATURE.  THERE IS NO REASON FOR SOMEONE
>> _NOT_ TO WIN THIS PRIZE.
>>
>> EVOLUTION 2.0 PRIZE KEY FACTS:
>> Evolution 2.0 is a $10 million technology prize backed by a private
>> equity investment group formed to identify a naturally occurring code.
>> The Prize came about from the group’s inaugural meeting May 31, 2019,
>> at The Royal Society of Great Britain.
>>
>> The judges are:
>> George Church. Denis Noble, Michael Ruse
>>
>> https://evo2.org/theprize/
>>
> How would you recognize a naturally occurring code? And why isn't the
> genetic code an example therof?
>

The prize isn't for identifying a naturally occurring code. It's for
causing one to spontaneously form.

--
alias Ernest Major

Ernest Major <{$to$}@meden.demon.co.uk> writes:

> On 19/03/2024 17:33, Richmond wrote:
>> erik simpson <eastside.erik@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 3/19/24 10:06 AM, Richmond wrote:
>>>> Ron Dean <rondean-noreply@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> THIS IS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME WEALTHY. A $10,000.000
>>>>> PRIZE.
>>>>>
>>>>> IF EVOLUTION IS A REALITY OF NATURE. THERE IS NO REASON FOR
>>>>> SOMEONE _NOT_ TO WIN THIS PRIZE.
>>>>>
>>>>> EVOLUTION 2.0 PRIZE KEY FACTS: Evolution 2.0 is a $10 million
>>>>> technology prize backed by a private equity investment group
>>>>> formed to identify a naturally occurring code. The Prize came
>>>>> about from the group’s inaugural meeting May 31, 2019, at The
>>>>> Royal Society of Great Britain.
>>>>>
>>>>> The judges are: George Church. Denis Noble, Michael Ruse
>>>>>
>>>>> https://evo2.org/theprize/ What do you mean by code? Like a dress
>>>> code?
>>>>
>>> I have sneaking suspicion nobody's going to win this. This isn't
>>> new; it's been around since 2006, maybe earlier. There's even a
>>> book:
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Evolution-2-0-Breaking-Deadlock-Between/dp/1940363802
>>>
>>> The usual "atheists vs. ID proponents" are featured. That page
>> appears to have the answer, DNA is a code. DNA is naturally
>> occuring. I claim my $10 million dollars. I'd like it paid in gold.
>>
>
> Ron Dean conflated abiogenesis and evolution. The challenge is to
> cause the equivalent of the genetic code to spontaneously form in real
> time. You can't point to the evolution of SARS-COV-2 in real time to
> win the prize, but that doesn't mean that the evolution of SARS-COV-2
> isn't part of the reality of nature. (Alternatively, stellar evolution
> is part of the reality of nature, but that doesn't mean that one can
> reasonably expect to form a star in the laboratory.)
>
> Ron Dean also misrepresented the criterion for winning. As stated
> previously, the challenge is not to identify a code, but to cause one
> to form spontaneously in real time.
>
> Ron Dean may have provided the wrong link. If my memory serves me
> correctly there's a creationist "prize" on superficially similar
> lines.
>
> A couple of other comments. I wondered what would happen if someone
> submitted ChatGPT as a contender for the prize, but reading the finer
> print, the requirement is for a chemical process. Spiegelman's monster
> is a chemical, and similar structures form spontaneously from systems
> of nucleotides and a RNA-dependent RNA polymerase, but I guess that
> doesn't qualify as a code. Other out of the box ideas are index
> minerals and Fraunhofer lines in stellar spectra (but the latter works
> on the atomic, rather than the molecular level).
>
> This also reminds me of Kaufmann's self-organisation research program,
> which I have the impression gave better results in relation to ecology
> that to abiogenesis.

Well that all sounds great. I suppose the next question I had lined up:
what do you mean by 'nature', would be superfluous.

What about the courtship dances of birds, are they a code? or the
patterns of colour in their plumage? or the song of the blackbird, or
the robin...

Ernest Major <{$to$}@meden.demon.co.uk> writes:

> On 19/03/2024 17:42, John Harshman wrote:
>> On 3/19/24 10:01 AM, Ron Dean wrote:
>>>
>>> THIS IS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME WEALTHY. A $10,000.000 PRIZE.
>>>
>>> IF EVOLUTION IS A REALITY OF NATURE.  THERE IS NO REASON FOR
>>> SOMEONE _NOT_ TO WIN THIS PRIZE.
>>>
>>> EVOLUTION 2.0 PRIZE KEY FACTS:
>>> Evolution 2.0 is a $10 million technology prize backed by a private
>>> equity investment group formed to identify a naturally occurring
>>> code.
>>> The Prize came about from the group’s inaugural meeting May 31,
>>> 2019, at The Royal Society of Great Britain.
>>>
>>> The judges are:
>>> George Church. Denis Noble, Michael Ruse
>>>
>>> https://evo2.org/theprize/
>>>
>> How would you recognize a naturally occurring code? And why isn't
>> the genetic code an example therof?
>>
>
> The prize isn't for identifying a naturally occurring code. It's for
> causing one to spontaneously form.

Bird song is a naturally occuring code, and I could cause it to
spontanously form by removing the elastic band from the bird's beak
which I had previously placed there. I claim my £10,000,000 (or
$10,000.000) prize again.

On 2024-03-19 1:42 PM, Ernest Major wrote:
> On 19/03/2024 17:42, John Harshman wrote:
>> On 3/19/24 10:01 AM, Ron Dean wrote:
>>>
>>> THIS IS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME WEALTHY. A $10,000.000 PRIZE.
>>>
>>> IF EVOLUTION IS A REALITY OF NATURE.  THERE IS NO REASON FOR SOMEONE
>>> _NOT_ TO WIN THIS PRIZE.
>>>
>>> EVOLUTION 2.0 PRIZE KEY FACTS:
>>> Evolution 2.0 is a $10 million technology prize backed by a private
>>> equity investment group formed to identify a naturally occurring code.
>>> The Prize came about from the group’s inaugural meeting May 31, 2019,
>>> at The Royal Society of Great Britain.
>>>
>>> The judges are:
>>> George Church. Denis Noble, Michael Ruse
>>>
>>> https://evo2.org/theprize/
>>>
>> How would you recognize a naturally occurring code? And why isn't the
>> genetic code an example therof?
>>
>
> The prize isn't for identifying a naturally occurring code. It's for
> causing one to spontaneously form.
>
"cause...spontaneously"? Somehow I don't think anyone will ever win that
prize.
--
--
Don Cates ("he's a cunning rascal" PN)

On 2024-03-19 1:55 PM, Richmond wrote:
> Ernest Major <{$to$}@meden.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>> On 19/03/2024 17:42, John Harshman wrote:
>>> On 3/19/24 10:01 AM, Ron Dean wrote:
>>>>
>>>> THIS IS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME WEALTHY. A $10,000.000 PRIZE.
>>>>
>>>> IF EVOLUTION IS A REALITY OF NATURE.  THERE IS NO REASON FOR
>>>> SOMEONE _NOT_ TO WIN THIS PRIZE.
>>>>
>>>> EVOLUTION 2.0 PRIZE KEY FACTS:
>>>> Evolution 2.0 is a $10 million technology prize backed by a private
>>>> equity investment group formed to identify a naturally occurring
>>>> code.
>>>> The Prize came about from the group’s inaugural meeting May 31,
>>>> 2019, at The Royal Society of Great Britain.
>>>>
>>>> The judges are:
>>>> George Church. Denis Noble, Michael Ruse
>>>>
>>>> https://evo2.org/theprize/
>>>>
>>> How would you recognize a naturally occurring code? And why isn't
>>> the genetic code an example therof?
>>>
>>
>> The prize isn't for identifying a naturally occurring code. It's for
>> causing one to spontaneously form.
>
> Bird song is a naturally occuring code, and I could cause it to
> spontanously form by removing the elastic band from the bird's beak
> which I had previously placed there. I claim my £10,000,000 (or
> $10,000.000) prize again.
>
But if you "caused" it, it ain't "spontaneous". {:p
--
--
Don Cates ("he's a cunning rascal" PN)

DB Cates <cates_db@hotmail.com> writes:

> On 2024-03-19 1:55 PM, Richmond wrote:
>> Ernest Major <{$to$}@meden.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>> On 19/03/2024 17:42, John Harshman wrote:
>>>> On 3/19/24 10:01 AM, Ron Dean wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> THIS IS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME WEALTHY. A $10,000.000 PRIZE.
>>>>>
>>>>> IF EVOLUTION IS A REALITY OF NATURE.  THERE IS NO REASON FOR
>>>>> SOMEONE _NOT_ TO WIN THIS PRIZE.
>>>>>
>>>>> EVOLUTION 2.0 PRIZE KEY FACTS:
>>>>> Evolution 2.0 is a $10 million technology prize backed by a private
>>>>> equity investment group formed to identify a naturally occurring
>>>>> code.
>>>>> The Prize came about from the group’s inaugural meeting May 31,
>>>>> 2019, at The Royal Society of Great Britain.
>>>>>
>>>>> The judges are:
>>>>> George Church. Denis Noble, Michael Ruse
>>>>>
>>>>> https://evo2.org/theprize/
>>>>>
>>>> How would you recognize a naturally occurring code? And why isn't
>>>> the genetic code an example therof?
>>>>
>>>
>>> The prize isn't for identifying a naturally occurring code. It's for
>>> causing one to spontaneously form.
>> Bird song is a naturally occuring code, and I could cause it to
>> spontanously form by removing the elastic band from the bird's beak
>> which I had previously placed there. I claim my £10,000,000 (or
>> $10,000.000) prize again.
>>
> But if you "caused" it, it ain't "spontaneous". {:p

I set up the laboratory conditions which allowed it to spontaneously
form. :>

On 3/19/24 11:29 AM, Ernest Major wrote:
> On 19/03/2024 17:33, Richmond wrote:
>> erik simpson <eastside.erik@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 3/19/24 10:06 AM, Richmond wrote:
>>>> Ron Dean <rondean-noreply@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> THIS IS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME WEALTHY. A $10,000.000 PRIZE.
>>>>>
>>>>> IF EVOLUTION IS A REALITY OF NATURE.  THERE IS NO REASON FOR SOMEONE
>>>>> _NOT_ TO WIN THIS PRIZE.
>>>>>
>>>>> EVOLUTION 2.0 PRIZE KEY FACTS: Evolution 2.0 is a $10 million
>>>>> technology prize backed by a private equity investment group formed to
>>>>> identify a naturally occurring code.  The Prize came about from the
>>>>> group’s inaugural meeting May 31, 2019, at The Royal Society of Great
>>>>> Britain.
>>>>>
>>>>> The judges are: George Church. Denis Noble, Michael Ruse
>>>>>
>>>>> https://evo2.org/theprize/
>>>> What do you mean by code? Like a dress code?
>>>>
>>> I have sneaking suspicion nobody's going to win this.  This isn't new;
>>> it's been around since 2006, maybe earlier.  There's even a book:
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Evolution-2-0-Breaking-Deadlock-Between/dp/1940363802
>>>
>>> The usual "atheists vs. ID proponents" are featured.
>>
>> That page appears to have the answer, DNA is a code. DNA is naturally
>> occuring. I claim my $10 million dollars. I'd like it paid in
>> gold.
>>
>
> Ron Dean conflated abiogenesis and evolution. The challenge is to cause
> the equivalent of the genetic code to spontaneously form in real time.
> You can't point to the evolution of SARS-COV-2 in real time to win the
> prize, but that doesn't mean that the evolution of SARS-COV-2 isn't part
> of the reality of nature. (Alternatively, stellar evolution is part of
> the reality of nature, but that doesn't mean that one can reasonably
> expect to form a star in the laboratory.)
>
> Ron Dean also misrepresented the criterion for winning. As stated
> previously, the challenge is not to identify a code, but to cause one to
> form spontaneously in real time.

Now there's an oxymoron.

> Ron Dean may have provided the wrong link. If my memory serves me
> correctly there's a creationist "prize" on superficially similar lines.
>
> A couple of other comments. I wondered what would happen if someone
> submitted ChatGPT as a contender for the prize, but reading the finer
> print, the requirement is for a chemical process. Spiegelman's monster
> is a chemical, and similar structures form spontaneously from systems of
> nucleotides and a RNA-dependent RNA polymerase, but I guess that doesn't
> qualify as a code. Other out of the box ideas are index minerals and
> Fraunhofer lines in stellar spectra (but the latter works on the atomic,
> rather than the molecular level).
>
> This also reminds me of Kaufmann's self-organisation research program,
> which I have the impression gave better results in relation to ecology
> that to abiogenesis.
>

On 3/19/24 11:42 AM, Ernest Major wrote:
> On 19/03/2024 17:42, John Harshman wrote:
>> On 3/19/24 10:01 AM, Ron Dean wrote:
>>>
>>> THIS IS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME WEALTHY. A $10,000.000 PRIZE.
>>>
>>> IF EVOLUTION IS A REALITY OF NATURE.  THERE IS NO REASON FOR SOMEONE
>>> _NOT_ TO WIN THIS PRIZE.
>>>
>>> EVOLUTION 2.0 PRIZE KEY FACTS:
>>> Evolution 2.0 is a $10 million technology prize backed by a private
>>> equity investment group formed to identify a naturally occurring code.
>>> The Prize came about from the group’s inaugural meeting May 31, 2019,
>>> at The Royal Society of Great Britain.
>>>
>>> The judges are:
>>> George Church. Denis Noble, Michael Ruse
>>>
>>> https://evo2.org/theprize/
>>>
>> How would you recognize a naturally occurring code? And why isn't the
>> genetic code an example therof?
>>
>
> The prize isn't for identifying a naturally occurring code. It's for
> causing one to spontaneously form.
>
But if you cause it, it isn't spontaneous.

On 2024-03-19 3:28 PM, John Harshman wrote:
> On 3/19/24 11:42 AM, Ernest Major wrote:
>> On 19/03/2024 17:42, John Harshman wrote:
>>> On 3/19/24 10:01 AM, Ron Dean wrote:
>>>>
>>>> THIS IS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME WEALTHY. A $10,000.000 PRIZE.
>>>>
>>>> IF EVOLUTION IS A REALITY OF NATURE.  THERE IS NO REASON FOR SOMEONE
>>>> _NOT_ TO WIN THIS PRIZE.
>>>>
>>>> EVOLUTION 2.0 PRIZE KEY FACTS:
>>>> Evolution 2.0 is a $10 million technology prize backed by a private
>>>> equity investment group formed to identify a naturally occurring code.
>>>> The Prize came about from the group’s inaugural meeting May 31,
>>>> 2019, at The Royal Society of Great Britain.
>>>>
>>>> The judges are:
>>>> George Church. Denis Noble, Michael Ruse
>>>>
>>>> https://evo2.org/theprize/
>>>>
>>> How would you recognize a naturally occurring code? And why isn't the
>>> genetic code an example therof?
>>>
>>
>> The prize isn't for identifying a naturally occurring code. It's for
>> causing one to spontaneously form.
>>
> But if you cause it, it isn't spontaneous.
>
There you go. *Proof* that i"m just one of John's innumerable sock puppets.
--
--
Don Cates ("he's a cunning rascal" PN)

On 19/03/2024 20:26, John Harshman wrote:
> On 3/19/24 11:29 AM, Ernest Major wrote:
>> On 19/03/2024 17:33, Richmond wrote:
>>> erik simpson <eastside.erik@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 3/19/24 10:06 AM, Richmond wrote:
>>>>> Ron Dean <rondean-noreply@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> THIS IS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME WEALTHY. A $10,000.000 PRIZE.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IF EVOLUTION IS A REALITY OF NATURE.  THERE IS NO REASON FOR SOMEONE
>>>>>> _NOT_ TO WIN THIS PRIZE.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> EVOLUTION 2.0 PRIZE KEY FACTS: Evolution 2.0 is a $10 million
>>>>>> technology prize backed by a private equity investment group
>>>>>> formed to
>>>>>> identify a naturally occurring code.  The Prize came about from the
>>>>>> group’s inaugural meeting May 31, 2019, at The Royal Society of Great
>>>>>> Britain.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The judges are: George Church. Denis Noble, Michael Ruse
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://evo2.org/theprize/
>>>>> What do you mean by code? Like a dress code?
>>>>>
>>>> I have sneaking suspicion nobody's going to win this.  This isn't new;
>>>> it's been around since 2006, maybe earlier.  There's even a book:
>>>> https://www.amazon.com/Evolution-2-0-Breaking-Deadlock-Between/dp/1940363802
>>>>
>>>> The usual "atheists vs. ID proponents" are featured.
>>>
>>> That page appears to have the answer, DNA is a code. DNA is naturally
>>> occuring. I claim my $10 million dollars. I'd like it paid in
>>> gold.
>>>
>>
>> Ron Dean conflated abiogenesis and evolution. The challenge is to
>> cause the equivalent of the genetic code to spontaneously form in real
>> time. You can't point to the evolution of SARS-COV-2 in real time to
>> win the prize, but that doesn't mean that the evolution of SARS-COV-2
>> isn't part of the reality of nature. (Alternatively, stellar evolution
>> is part of the reality of nature, but that doesn't mean that one can
>> reasonably expect to form a star in the laboratory.)
>>
>> Ron Dean also misrepresented the criterion for winning. As stated
>> previously, the challenge is not to identify a code, but to cause one
>> to form spontaneously in real time.
>
> Now there's an oxymoron.

For a parallel, you can cause crystals to form spontaneously - dissolve
in hot water, and allow to cool slowly.

>
>> Ron Dean may have provided the wrong link. If my memory serves me
>> correctly there's a creationist "prize" on superficially similar lines.
>>
>> A couple of other comments. I wondered what would happen if someone
>> submitted ChatGPT as a contender for the prize, but reading the finer
>> print, the requirement is for a chemical process. Spiegelman's monster
>> is a chemical, and similar structures form spontaneously from systems
>> of nucleotides and a RNA-dependent RNA polymerase, but I guess that
>> doesn't qualify as a code. Other out of the box ideas are index
>> minerals and Fraunhofer lines in stellar spectra (but the latter works
>> on the atomic, rather than the molecular level).
>>
>> This also reminds me of Kaufmann's self-organisation research program,
>> which I have the impression gave better results in relation to ecology
>> that to abiogenesis.
>>
>

--
alias Ernest Major

DB Cates <cates_db@hotmail.com> writes:

> On 2024-03-19 3:28 PM, John Harshman wrote:
>> On 3/19/24 11:42 AM, Ernest Major wrote:
>>> On 19/03/2024 17:42, John Harshman wrote:
>>>> On 3/19/24 10:01 AM, Ron Dean wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> THIS IS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME WEALTHY. A $10,000.000 PRIZE.
>>>>>
>>>>> IF EVOLUTION IS A REALITY OF NATURE.  THERE IS NO REASON FOR
>>>>> SOMEONE _NOT_ TO WIN THIS PRIZE.
>>>>>
>>>>> EVOLUTION 2.0 PRIZE KEY FACTS:
>>>>> Evolution 2.0 is a $10 million technology prize backed by a
>>>>> private equity investment group formed to identify a naturally
>>>>> occurring code.
>>>>> The Prize came about from the group’s inaugural meeting May 31,
>>>>> 2019, at The Royal Society of Great Britain.
>>>>>
>>>>> The judges are:
>>>>> George Church. Denis Noble, Michael Ruse
>>>>>
>>>>> https://evo2.org/theprize/
>>>>>
>>>> How would you recognize a naturally occurring code? And why isn't
>>>> the genetic code an example therof?
>>>>
>>>
>>> The prize isn't for identifying a naturally occurring code. It's
>>> for causing one to spontaneously form.
>>>
>> But if you cause it, it isn't spontaneous.
>>
> There you go. *Proof* that i"m just one of John's innumerable sock puppets.

Is there anything which has no cause?

On 19/03/2024 20:54, Richmond wrote:
> Is there anything which has no cause?

According to our best understanding of the universe ...

Radioactive decay at a particular instance in time. Photon emission from
an atom at a particular instance in time. Production of one product
rather than another when a molecule is excited in a photochemical reaction.

Basically the timing and path of the decay of an excited quantum system
is only statistically predictable - there is a cause for it to decay,
but not for it to decay at a particular time, or in a particular way.

--
alias Ernest Major

On 3/19/2024 12:33 PM, Richmond wrote:
> erik simpson <eastside.erik@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On 3/19/24 10:06 AM, Richmond wrote:
>>> Ron Dean <rondean-noreply@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> THIS IS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME WEALTHY. A $10,000.000 PRIZE.
>>>>
>>>> IF EVOLUTION IS A REALITY OF NATURE. THERE IS NO REASON FOR SOMEONE
>>>> _NOT_ TO WIN THIS PRIZE.
>>>>
>>>> EVOLUTION 2.0 PRIZE KEY FACTS: Evolution 2.0 is a $10 million
>>>> technology prize backed by a private equity investment group formed to
>>>> identify a naturally occurring code. The Prize came about from the
>>>> group’s inaugural meeting May 31, 2019, at The Royal Society of Great
>>>> Britain.
>>>>
>>>> The judges are: George Church. Denis Noble, Michael Ruse
>>>>
>>>> https://evo2.org/theprize/
>>> What do you mean by code? Like a dress code?
>>>
>> I have sneaking suspicion nobody's going to win this. This isn't new;
>> it's been around since 2006, maybe earlier. There's even a book:
>> https://www.amazon.com/Evolution-2-0-Breaking-Deadlock-Between/dp/1940363802
>>
>> The usual "atheists vs. ID proponents" are featured.
>
> That page appears to have the answer, DNA is a code. DNA is naturally
> occuring. I claim my $10 million dollars. I'd like it paid in
> gold.
>

You not only have to generate an encoder like DNA, but you have to have
a decoder that does something with the encoded signal. You need the DNA
or RNA coded sequence, a mRNA that transmits the code, and a reader that
decodes the message.

It is a pretty unfair challenge because you need a lot of money just to
fund the research to try to produce the parts. What they should do is
break the prize into multiple parts. You can submit your scenario and
win research funds to actually try it out, and if you are successful you
get the full prize.

Ron Okimoto

On 3/19/24 1:54 PM, Richmond wrote:
> DB Cates <cates_db@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>> On 2024-03-19 3:28 PM, John Harshman wrote:
>>> On 3/19/24 11:42 AM, Ernest Major wrote:
>>>> On 19/03/2024 17:42, John Harshman wrote:
>>>>> On 3/19/24 10:01 AM, Ron Dean wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> THIS IS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME WEALTHY. A $10,000.000 PRIZE.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IF EVOLUTION IS A REALITY OF NATURE.  THERE IS NO REASON FOR
>>>>>> SOMEONE _NOT_ TO WIN THIS PRIZE.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> EVOLUTION 2.0 PRIZE KEY FACTS:
>>>>>> Evolution 2.0 is a $10 million technology prize backed by a
>>>>>> private equity investment group formed to identify a naturally
>>>>>> occurring code.
>>>>>> The Prize came about from the group’s inaugural meeting May 31,
>>>>>> 2019, at The Royal Society of Great Britain.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The judges are:
>>>>>> George Church. Denis Noble, Michael Ruse
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://evo2.org/theprize/
>>>>>>
>>>>> How would you recognize a naturally occurring code? And why isn't
>>>>> the genetic code an example therof?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The prize isn't for identifying a naturally occurring code. It's
>>>> for causing one to spontaneously form.
>>>>
>>> But if you cause it, it isn't spontaneous.
>>>
>> There you go. *Proof* that i"m just one of John's innumerable sock puppets.
>
> Is there anything which has no cause?
>
James Dean?

Richmond wrote:
> Ron Dean <rondean-noreply@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> THIS IS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME WEALTHY. A $10,000.000 PRIZE.
>>
>> IF EVOLUTION IS A REALITY OF NATURE. THERE IS NO REASON FOR SOMEONE
>> _NOT_ TO WIN THIS PRIZE.
>>
>> EVOLUTION 2.0 PRIZE KEY FACTS: Evolution 2.0 is a $10 million
>> technology prize backed by a private equity investment group formed to
>> identify a naturally occurring code. The Prize came about from the
>> group’s inaugural meeting May 31, 2019, at The Royal Society of Great
>> Britain.
>>
>> The judges are: George Church. Denis Noble, Michael Ruse
>>
>> https://evo2.org/theprize/
>
> What do you mean by code? Like a dress code?

What Is the Genetic Code?
The genetic code consists of the sequence of nitrogen bases in a
polynucleotide chain of DNA or RNA. The bases are adenine (A), cytosine
(C), guanine (G), and thymine (T) (or uracil, U, in RNA). The four bases
make up the “letters” of the genetic code. The letters are combined in
groups of three to form code “words,” called codons.
https://bio.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Human_Biology/Human_Biology_(Wakim_and_Grewal)/06%3A_DNA_and_Protein_Synthesis/6.05%3A_Genetic_Code

Genetic Code:
"genetic code, the sequence of nucleotides in deoxyribonucleic acid
(DNA) and ribonucleic acid (RNA) that determines the amino acid sequence
of proteins.
https://www.britannica.com/science/genetic-code

erik simpson wrote:
> On 3/19/24 10:06 AM, Richmond wrote:
>> Ron Dean <rondean-noreply@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> THIS IS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME WEALTHY. A $10,000.000 PRIZE.
>>>
>>> IF EVOLUTION IS A REALITY OF NATURE.  THERE IS NO REASON FOR SOMEONE
>>> _NOT_ TO WIN THIS PRIZE.
>>>
>>> EVOLUTION 2.0 PRIZE KEY FACTS: Evolution 2.0 is a $10 million
>>> technology prize backed by a private equity investment group formed to
>>> identify a naturally occurring code.  The Prize came about from the
>>> group’s inaugural meeting May 31, 2019, at The Royal Society of Great
>>> Britain.
>>>
>>> The judges are: George Church. Denis Noble, Michael Ruse
>>>
>>> https://evo2.org/theprize/
>>
>> What do you mean by code? Like a dress code?
>>
> I have sneaking suspicion nobody's going to win this.  This isn't new;
> it's been around since 2006, maybe earlier.  There's even a book:
> https://www.amazon.com/Evolution-2-0-Breaking-Deadlock-Between/dp/1940363802
>
>
> The usual "atheists vs. ID proponents" are featured.
>
What do you know about the the 3 judges or the Royal Society of Great
Britain?