We share around half of our genes with the ordinary banana...

That assuredly does not come from humans BREEDING with bananas... It
most liikely comes from humans EATING bananas, pretty much forever, and
probably throughout the universe and not just on this planet.

Likewise, the first experience humans ever had with Neanderthals on
Earth was watching friends and family members being killed and eaten by
them, so that eating a Neanderthal that had been killed in some battle
would have just been sending the Neanderthals a message in their own
language...

In both cases, what you seem to be talking about is bacterial insertian
of genes.

There is a claim that, because some humans have a certain small number
of genes in common with Neanderthals, that humans and Neanderthals must
have interbred. That amounts to thinking that a Neanderthal male
could/would rape a woman and, rather than cooking and eating her
afterwards as usual, somehow or other keep her alive long enough to bear
a cross-species child, raise that child to reproductive age, and have
him/her breed back into human populations without anybody catching on,
i.e. the claim is ridiculous.

In real life:

Neanderthal females would kill that woman the first time her new owner
left her alone for ten minutes.

The woman wouldn't fare any better than the subjects of the commie
attempts to breed humans and apes into super workers in the 1930s.

Humans would notice the child was different (really different...)

And humans would kill that child and everybody else like him as part of
the same program which killed out the Neanderthal. They would not need
DNA tests to determine who to kill for that sort of reason, it would be
exceedingly obvious.

https://youtu.be/mZbmywzGAVs

In other words, it would be a miracle for something like that to ever
have happened once while the claims from Paabo et. al. require it to
have been going on all the time. That is, for human/hominid
cross-breeding to have left detectable traces in the DNA of modern
humans, it would have to have been entirely common.

One zero-probability event in the history of the universe? Maybe, but
not an infinite series of them, i.e. not something that stands
everything we know about probability on its head.

On 2024-04-03 13:29:25 +0000, panther2020 said:

> We share around half of our genes with the ordinary banana...
>
> That assuredly does not come from humans BREEDING with bananas... It
> most liikely comes from humans EATING bananas, pretty much forever, and
> probably throughout the universe and not just on this planet.
>
> Likewise, the first experience humans ever had with Neanderthals on
> Earth was watching friends and family members being killed and eaten by
> them, so that eating a Neanderthal that had been killed in some battle
> would have just been sending the Neanderthals a message in their own
> language...
>
> In both cases, what you seem to be talking about is bacterial insertian
> of genes.
>
> There is a claim that, because some humans have a certain small number
> of genes in common with Neanderthals, that humans and Neanderthals must
> have interbred. That amounts to thinking that a Neanderthal male
> could/would rape a woman and, rather than cooking and eating her
> afterwards as usual, somehow or other keep her alive long enough to
> bear a cross-species child, raise that child to reproductive age, and
> have him/her breed back into human populations without anybody catching
> on, i.e. the claim is ridiculous.
>
> In real life:
>
> Neanderthal females would kill that woman the first time her new owner
> left her alone for ten minutes.
>
> The woman wouldn't fare any better than the subjects of the commie
> attempts to breed humans and apes into super workers in the 1930s.
>
> Humans would notice the child was different (really different...)
>
> And humans would kill that child and everybody else like him as part of
> the same program which killed out the Neanderthal. They would not need
> DNA tests to determine who to kill for that sort of reason, it would be
> exceedingly obvious.
>
> https://youtu.be/mZbmywzGAVs
>
> In other words, it would be a miracle for something like that to ever
> have happened once while the claims from Paabo et. al. require it to
> have been going on all the time. That is, for human/hominid
> cross-breeding to have left detectable traces in the DNA of modern
> humans, it would have to have been entirely common.
>
> One zero-probability event in the history of the universe? Maybe, but
> not an infinite series of them, i.e. not something that stands
> everything we know about probability on its head.

Severe case of Dunning-Kruger here. So much speculation on so little
knowledge. I leave it to others with more energy (Mark?) to take it
apart.

--
athel cb : Biochemical Evolution, Garland Science, 2016

panther2020 <panther2020@vivaldi.net> wrote:
> We share around half of our genes with the ordinary banana...
>
> That assuredly does not come from humans BREEDING with bananas... It
> most liikely comes from humans EATING bananas, pretty much forever, and
> probably throughout the universe and not just on this planet.
>
> Likewise, the first experience humans ever had with Neanderthals on
> Earth was watching friends and family members being killed and eaten by
> them, so that eating a Neanderthal that had been killed in some battle
> would have just been sending the Neanderthals a message in their own
> language...
>
> In both cases, what you seem to be talking about is bacterial insertian
> of genes.
>
> There is a claim that, because some humans have a certain small number
> of genes in common with Neanderthals, that humans and Neanderthals must
> have interbred. That amounts to thinking that a Neanderthal male
> could/would rape a woman and, rather than cooking and eating her
> afterwards as usual, somehow or other keep her alive long enough to bear
> a cross-species child, raise that child to reproductive age, and have
> him/her breed back into human populations without anybody catching on,
> i.e. the claim is ridiculous.
>
> In real life:
>
> Neanderthal females would kill that woman the first time her new owner
> left her alone for ten minutes.
>
> The woman wouldn't fare any better than the subjects of the commie
> attempts to breed humans and apes into super workers in the 1930s.
>
> Humans would notice the child was different (really different...)
>
> And humans would kill that child and everybody else like him as part of
> the same program which killed out the Neanderthal. They would not need
> DNA tests to determine who to kill for that sort of reason, it would be
> exceedingly obvious.
>
> https://youtu.be/mZbmywzGAVs
>
> In other words, it would be a miracle for something like that to ever
> have happened once while the claims from Paabo et. al. require it to
> have been going on all the time. That is, for human/hominid
> cross-breeding to have left detectable traces in the DNA of modern
> humans, it would have to have been entirely common.
>
> One zero-probability event in the history of the universe? Maybe, but
> not an infinite series of them, i.e. not something that stands
> everything we know about probability on its head.
>
Is your apparent genetic relatedness to your parents of mutual cannibalism
and/or bacterial insertion of their genes into you?

On 03/04/2024 14:29, panther2020 wrote:
> We share around half of our genes with the ordinary banana...
>
> That assuredly does not come from humans BREEDING with bananas...  It
> most liikely comes from humans EATING bananas, pretty much forever, and
> probably throughout the universe and not just on  this planet.

The genetic commonalities between humans and bananas mostly (possibly
completely) arise from retention with modification from their common
ancestor - an early eukaryote. You'll find that the commonalities
between humans and bananas are almost identical to those between other
mammals and bananas. You could try to explain this as a result of
alimentation for great apes (but you would have to explain why it's the
same bits of the banana genome got transferred in each instance), or
change your story to it coming from early apes, rather than humans,
eating bananas, but you'd still have to explain how banana DNA got into
New World monkeys (no bananas in South America), cats(obligate
carnivores) and dolphins (no bananas in the sea).
>
> Likewise, the first experience humans ever had with Neanderthals on
> Earth was watching friends and family members being killed and eaten by
> them, so that eating a Neanderthal that had been killed in some battle
> would have just been sending the Neanderthals a message in their own
> language...

Denny Vendramini's views are not accepted by the great majority of
anthropologists and geneticists. You can't use his model as an axiom and
make a convincing argument.

>
> In both cases, what you seem to be talking about is bacterial insertian
> of genes.

We have a body of knowledge about how horizontal transfer of genes
occurs, and about how to recognise occurrences. Alimentation is not a
common means of gene transfer, except in parasitic plants, whose tissues
are in intimate contact with their hosts at a subcellular level. If you
think about it, if alimentation was a regular cause of horizontal
transfer of genes to the degree that you postulate, the nested hierarchy
of the genome would be badly messed up - fish genes turning up in
otters, seals and dolphins, but not in dogs and hippopotami, wheat and
rice genes turning up in humans, but not in chimpanzees, and termite
genes turning up in anteaters, echidnas and pangolins, but not
armadillos and platypuses.

Even if it did occur, what would be transferred would be small sections
of the genome, that escaped digestion, passed into the bloodstream, and
somehow got incorporated into ova or spermatozoa. In contrast with
interbreeding neandertal genetic material enters the human gene pool in
chromosome sized chunks, and gets broken up over time through the
process of recombination. We can tell how recent the interbreeding was
by the size of the remaining chunks of neandertal DNA. We have an
ancient Homo sapiens specimen with about 1/16th neandertal ancestry,
with chunks of neandertal DNA of a size that implies that the
interbreeding was only a few generations back.

>
> There is a claim that, because some humans have a certain small number
> of genes in common with Neanderthals, that humans and Neanderthals must
> have interbred. That amounts to thinking that a Neanderthal male
> could/would rape a woman and, rather than cooking and eating her
> afterwards as usual, somehow or other keep her alive long enough to bear
> a cross-species child, raise that child to reproductive age, and have
> him/her breed back into human populations without anybody catching on,
> i.e. the claim is ridiculous.
>
> In real life:
>
> Neanderthal females would kill that woman the first time her new owner
> left her alone for ten minutes.
>
> The woman wouldn't fare any better than the subjects of the commie
> attempts to breed humans and apes into super workers in the 1930s.
>
> Humans would notice the child was different (really different...)
>
> And humans would kill that child and everybody else like him as part of
> the same program which killed out the Neanderthal. They would not need
> DNA tests to determine who to kill for that sort of reason, it would be
> exceedingly obvious.
>
> https://youtu.be/mZbmywzGAVs
>
> In other words, it would be a miracle for something like that to ever
> have happened once while the claims from Paabo et. al. require it to
> have been going on all the time. That is, for human/hominid
> cross-breeding to have left detectable traces in the DNA of modern
> humans, it would have to have been entirely common.
>
> One zero-probability event in the history of the universe? Maybe, but
> not an infinite series of them, i.e. not something that stands
> everything we know about probability on its head.
>

Congratulations - you've just proved that Denny Vendramini is wrong. (If
the observations contradict your premises, your premises are wrong.)

--
alias Ernest Major

On 4/3/2024 9:14 AM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2024-04-03 13:29:25 +0000, panther2020 said:
>
>> We share around half of our genes with the ordinary banana...
>>
>> That assuredly does not come from humans BREEDING with bananas...  It
>> most liikely comes from humans EATING bananas, pretty much forever,
>> and probably throughout the universe and not just on  this planet.
>>
>> Likewise, the first experience humans ever had with Neanderthals on
>> Earth was watching friends and family members being killed and eaten
>> by them, so that eating a Neanderthal that had been killed in some
>> battle would have just been sending the Neanderthals a message in
>> their own language...
>>
>> In both cases, what you seem to be talking about is bacterial
>> insertian of genes.
>>
>> There is a claim that, because some humans have a certain small number
>> of genes in common with Neanderthals, that humans and Neanderthals
>> must have interbred. That amounts to thinking that a Neanderthal male
>> could/would rape a woman and, rather than cooking and eating her
>> afterwards as usual, somehow or other keep her alive long enough to
>> bear a cross-species child, raise that child to reproductive age, and
>> have him/her breed back into human populations without anybody
>> catching on, i.e. the claim is ridiculous.
>>
>> In real life:
>>
>> Neanderthal females would kill that woman the first time her new owner
>> left her alone for ten minutes.
>>
>> The woman wouldn't fare any better than the subjects of the commie
>> attempts to breed humans and apes into super workers in the 1930s.
>>
>> Humans would notice the child was different (really different...)
>>
>> And humans would kill that child and everybody else like him as part
>> of the same program which killed out the Neanderthal. They would not
>> need DNA tests to determine who to kill for that sort of reason, it
>> would be exceedingly obvious.
>>
>> https://youtu.be/mZbmywzGAVs
>>
>> In other words, it would be a miracle for something like that to ever
>> have happened once while the claims from Paabo et. al. require it to
>> have been going on all the time. That is, for human/hominid
>> cross-breeding to have left detectable traces in the DNA of modern
>> humans, it would have to have been entirely common.
>>
>> One zero-probability event in the history of the universe? Maybe, but
>> not an infinite series of them, i.e. not something that stands
>> everything we know about probability on its head.
>
> Severe case of Dunning-Kruger here. So much speculation on so little
> knowledge. I leave it to others with more energy (Mark?) to take it apart.
>

Some ex child actor started using the creationist banana routine around
20 years ago, and it was just as stupid as it is now.

Ron Okimoto

On 4/3/24 7:14 AM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2024-04-03 13:29:25 +0000, panther2020 said:
>
>> We share around half of our genes with the ordinary banana...
>>
>> That assuredly does not come from humans BREEDING with bananas...  It
>> most liikely comes from humans EATING bananas, pretty much forever,
>> and probably throughout the universe and not just on  this planet.
>>
>> Likewise, the first experience humans ever had with Neanderthals on
>> Earth was watching friends and family members being killed and eaten
>> by them, so that eating a Neanderthal that had been killed in some
>> battle would have just been sending the Neanderthals a message in
>> their own language...
>>
>> In both cases, what you seem to be talking about is bacterial
>> insertian of genes.
>>
>> There is a claim that, because some humans have a certain small number
>> of genes in common with Neanderthals, that humans and Neanderthals
>> must have interbred. That amounts to thinking that a Neanderthal male
>> could/would rape a woman and, rather than cooking and eating her
>> afterwards as usual, somehow or other keep her alive long enough to
>> bear a cross-species child, raise that child to reproductive age, and
>> have him/her breed back into human populations without anybody
>> catching on, i.e. the claim is ridiculous.
>>
>> In real life:
>>
>> Neanderthal females would kill that woman the first time her new owner
>> left her alone for ten minutes.
>>
>> The woman wouldn't fare any better than the subjects of the commie
>> attempts to breed humans and apes into super workers in the 1930s.
>>
>> Humans would notice the child was different (really different...)
>>
>> And humans would kill that child and everybody else like him as part
>> of the same program which killed out the Neanderthal. They would not
>> need DNA tests to determine who to kill for that sort of reason, it
>> would be exceedingly obvious.
>>
>> https://youtu.be/mZbmywzGAVs
>>
>> In other words, it would be a miracle for something like that to ever
>> have happened once while the claims from Paabo et. al. require it to
>> have been going on all the time. That is, for human/hominid
>> cross-breeding to have left detectable traces in the DNA of modern
>> humans, it would have to have been entirely common.
>>
>> One zero-probability event in the history of the universe? Maybe, but
>> not an infinite series of them, i.e. not something that stands
>> everything we know about probability on its head.
>
> Severe case of Dunning-Kruger here. So much speculation on so little
> knowledge. I leave it to others with more energy (Mark?) to take it apart.
>
No, this looks like a job for JTEM. Let them hash it out, and nobody
else needs to be bothered.

Again...
>
> There is a claim that, because some humans have a certain small number
> of genes in common with Neanderthals, that humans and Neanderthals must
> have interbred. That amounts to thinking that a Neanderthal male
> could/would rape a woman and, rather than cooking and eating her
> afterwards as usual, somehow or other keep her alive long enough to bear
> a cross-species child, raise that child to reproductive age, and have
> him/her breed back into human populations without anybody catching on,
> i.e. the claim is ridiculous.
>
> In real life:
>
> Neanderthal females would kill that woman the first time her new owner
> left her alone for ten minutes.
>
> The woman wouldn't fare any better than the subjects of the commie
> attempts to breed humans and apes into super workers in the 1930s.
>
> Humans would notice the child was different (really different...)
>
> And humans would kill that child and everybody else like him as part of
> the same program which killed out the Neanderthal. They would not need
> DNA tests to determine who to kill for that sort of reason, it would be
> exceedingly obvious.
>
> https://youtu.be/mZbmywzGAVs
>
> In other words, it would be a miracle for something like that to ever
> have happened once while the claims from Paabo et. al. require it to
> have been going on all the time. That is, for human/hominid
> cross-breeding to have left detectable traces in the DNA of modern
> humans, it would have to have been entirely common.
>
> One zero-probability event in the history of the universe? Maybe, but
> not an infinite series of them, i.e. not something that stands
> everything we know about probability on its head.

All of that rules out the narrative put out by Paabo and others. The
alternative I propose can not be ruled out so easily.

Here is what I think you have to picture. A cromagnon war party fights a
pitched battle with some Neanderthal family group in the late afternoon
or evening and, they greatly outnumber the hominids and have javelins
and atlatls while the hominids are limited to thrusting spears so that
the affair is one sided. Afterwards, the humans are sitting around a
fire licking any wounds, there are eight or ten neanderthals lying
around dead, and one of them says something like:

"Man, this has been a hell of a day, I'm hungry enough to eat just about
anything and I'm not about to go off hunting right now, what the hell
could there be to eat around here??"

Think really hard, what do you suspect those guys are eating that night?

And, unless they were to somehow manage to cook one of those hominids
very thoroughly, bacterial gene insertion would be a real possibility.

Common genes from some very remote ancestor of both humans and hominids
is not an option, since all humans would have the genes, and not just
Europeans and Asians but not Africans as is the case. Plainly,
Neanderthals were never on he menu in Africa.

As for Danny Vendramini, you have to remember that Neanderthal dna is
described as roughly halfway between ours and that of a chimpanzee, and
a bit closer to that of the chimp. You need to ask yourself what you
think such a creature would look like....

On 04/04/2024 03:54, panther2020 wrote:
>
> As for Danny Vendramini, you have to remember that Neanderthal dna is
> described as roughly halfway between ours and that of a chimpanzee, and
> a bit closer to that of the chimp.  You need to ask yourself what you
> think such a creature would look like....

Like Lucy?

However, the estimates are the the common ancestor of us and Neandertals
lived 500,000 years ago, and the common ancestor of us and chimpanzees
an order of magnitude earlier. Whoever described Neandertal DNA as
"roughly halfway between ours and that of a chimpanzee, and
a bit closer to that of the chimp" was seriously inaccurate.

--
alias Ernest Major

On 2024-04-04 06:45:56 +0000, Ernest Major said:

> On 04/04/2024 03:54, panther2020 wrote:
>>
>> As for Danny Vendramini, you have to remember that Neanderthal dna is
>> described as roughly halfway between ours and that of a chimpanzee, and
>> a bit closer to that of the chimp.  You need to ask yourself what you
>> think such a creature would look like....
>
> Like Lucy?
>
> However, the estimates are the the common ancestor of us and
> Neandertals lived 500,000 years ago, and the common ancestor of us and
> chimpanzees an order of magnitude earlier. Whoever described Neandertal
> DNA as "roughly halfway between ours and that of a chimpanzee, and
> a bit closer to that of the chimp" was seriously inaccurate.

Like everything else in panther2020's posts.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

On 2024-04-03 22:21:33 +0000, RonO said:

> On 4/3/2024 9:14 AM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2024-04-03 13:29:25 +0000, panther2020 said:
>>
>>> We share around half of our genes with the ordinary banana...
>>>
>>> That assuredly does not come from humans BREEDING with bananas...  It
>>> most liikely comes from humans EATING bananas, pretty much forever, and
>>> probably throughout the universe and not just on  this planet.
>>>
>>> Likewise, the first experience humans ever had with Neanderthals on
>>> Earth was watching friends and family members being killed and eaten by
>>> them, so that eating a Neanderthal that had been killed in some battle
>>> would have just been sending the Neanderthals a message in their own
>>> language...
>>>
>>> In both cases, what you seem to be talking about is bacterial insertian
>>> of genes.
>>>
>>> There is a claim that, because some humans have a certain small number
>>> of genes in common with Neanderthals, that humans and Neanderthals must
>>> have interbred. That amounts to thinking that a Neanderthal male
>>> could/would rape a woman and, rather than cooking and eating her
>>> afterwards as usual, somehow or other keep her alive long enough to
>>> bear a cross-species child, raise that child to reproductive age, and
>>> have him/her breed back into human populations without anybody catching
>>> on, i.e. the claim is ridiculous.
>>>
>>> In real life:
>>>
>>> Neanderthal females would kill that woman the first time her new owner
>>> left her alone for ten minutes.
>>>
>>> The woman wouldn't fare any better than the subjects of the commie
>>> attempts to breed humans and apes into super workers in the 1930s.
>>>
>>> Humans would notice the child was different (really different...)
>>>
>>> And humans would kill that child and everybody else like him as part of
>>> the same program which killed out the Neanderthal. They would not need
>>> DNA tests to determine who to kill for that sort of reason, it would be
>>> exceedingly obvious.
>>>
>>> https://youtu.be/mZbmywzGAVs
>>>
>>> In other words, it would be a miracle for something like that to ever
>>> have happened once while the claims from Paabo et. al. require it to
>>> have been going on all the time. That is, for human/hominid
>>> cross-breeding to have left detectable traces in the DNA of modern
>>> humans, it would have to have been entirely common.
>>>
>>> One zero-probability event in the history of the universe? Maybe, but
>>> not an infinite series of them, i.e. not something that stands
>>> everything we know about probability on its head.
>>
>> Severe case of Dunning-Kruger here. So much speculation on so little
>> knowledge. I leave it to others with more energy (Mark?) to take it
>> apart.
>>
>
> Some ex child actor started using the creationist banana routine around
> 20 years ago, and it was just as stupid as it is now.

Why stop at bananas? Humans and yeast have much the same biochemistry,
and many enzymes (the hexokinases, for example) are clearly homologous.
Did our ancestors get their hexokinases by drinking too much
inadequately filtered beer? How did they manage before beer was
available? Without hexokinases much of biochemistry (glycolysis, for
example) would be impossible. Are we as closely related to
Saccharomyces cerevisiae as we are to bananas?

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

panther2020 <panther2020@vivaldi.net> wrote:
> Again...
>>
>> There is a claim that, because some humans have a certain small number
>> of genes in common with Neanderthals, that humans and Neanderthals must
>> have interbred. That amounts to thinking that a Neanderthal male
>> could/would rape a woman and, rather than cooking and eating her
>> afterwards as usual, somehow or other keep her alive long enough to bear
>> a cross-species child, raise that child to reproductive age, and have
>> him/her breed back into human populations without anybody catching on,
>> i.e. the claim is ridiculous.
>>
>> In real life:
>>
>> Neanderthal females would kill that woman the first time her new owner
>> left her alone for ten minutes.
>>
>> The woman wouldn't fare any better than the subjects of the commie
>> attempts to breed humans and apes into super workers in the 1930s.
>>
>> Humans would notice the child was different (really different...)
>>
>> And humans would kill that child and everybody else like him as part of
>> the same program which killed out the Neanderthal. They would not need
>> DNA tests to determine who to kill for that sort of reason, it would be
>> exceedingly obvious.
>>
>> https://youtu.be/mZbmywzGAVs
>>
>> In other words, it would be a miracle for something like that to ever
>> have happened once while the claims from Paabo et. al. require it to
>> have been going on all the time. That is, for human/hominid
>> cross-breeding to have left detectable traces in the DNA of modern
>> humans, it would have to have been entirely common.
>>
>> One zero-probability event in the history of the universe? Maybe, but
>> not an infinite series of them, i.e. not something that stands
>> everything we know about probability on its head.
>
>
> All of that rules out the narrative put out by Paabo and others. The
> alternative I propose can not be ruled out so easily.
>
> Here is what I think you have to picture. A cromagnon war party fights a
> pitched battle with some Neanderthal family group in the late afternoon
> or evening and, they greatly outnumber the hominids and have javelins
> and atlatls while the hominids are limited to thrusting spears so that
> the affair is one sided. Afterwards, the humans are sitting around a
> fire licking any wounds, there are eight or ten neanderthals lying
> around dead, and one of them says something like:
>
> "Man, this has been a hell of a day, I'm hungry enough to eat just about
> anything and I'm not about to go off hunting right now, what the hell
> could there be to eat around here??"
>
> Think really hard, what do you suspect those guys are eating that night?
>
> And, unless they were to somehow manage to cook one of those hominids
> very thoroughly, bacterial gene insertion would be a real possibility.
>
Thus taking “You are what you eat” to absurd extremes. If our genomes were
so susceptible to bacterial gene insertion (how precisely does that
work…step by step?) we would be swamped by a vanishing form of blending
inheritance via horizontal gene transfer. Meat eaters and vegans would
diverge into separate human lineages. Only cannibals would remain
purebloods.
>
> Common genes from some very remote ancestor of both humans and hominids
> is not an option, since all humans would have the genes, and not just
> Europeans and Asians but not Africans as is the case. Plainly,
> Neanderthals were never on he menu in Africa.
>
> As for Danny Vendramini, you have to remember that Neanderthal dna is
> described as roughly halfway between ours and that of a chimpanzee, and
> a bit closer to that of the chimp. You need to ask yourself what you
> think such a creature would look like....
>
Manpanzee?

John Harshman <john.harshman@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 4/3/24 7:14 AM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2024-04-03 13:29:25 +0000, panther2020 said:
>>
>>> We share around half of our genes with the ordinary banana...
>>>
>>> That assuredly does not come from humans BREEDING with bananas...  It
>>> most liikely comes from humans EATING bananas, pretty much forever,
>>> and probably throughout the universe and not just on  this planet.
>>>
>>> Likewise, the first experience humans ever had with Neanderthals on
>>> Earth was watching friends and family members being killed and eaten
>>> by them, so that eating a Neanderthal that had been killed in some
>>> battle would have just been sending the Neanderthals a message in
>>> their own language...
>>>
>>> In both cases, what you seem to be talking about is bacterial
>>> insertian of genes.
>>>
>>> There is a claim that, because some humans have a certain small number
>>> of genes in common with Neanderthals, that humans and Neanderthals
>>> must have interbred. That amounts to thinking that a Neanderthal male
>>> could/would rape a woman and, rather than cooking and eating her
>>> afterwards as usual, somehow or other keep her alive long enough to
>>> bear a cross-species child, raise that child to reproductive age, and
>>> have him/her breed back into human populations without anybody
>>> catching on, i.e. the claim is ridiculous.
>>>
>>> In real life:
>>>
>>> Neanderthal females would kill that woman the first time her new owner
>>> left her alone for ten minutes.
>>>
>>> The woman wouldn't fare any better than the subjects of the commie
>>> attempts to breed humans and apes into super workers in the 1930s.
>>>
>>> Humans would notice the child was different (really different...)
>>>
>>> And humans would kill that child and everybody else like him as part
>>> of the same program which killed out the Neanderthal. They would not
>>> need DNA tests to determine who to kill for that sort of reason, it
>>> would be exceedingly obvious.
>>>
>>> https://youtu.be/mZbmywzGAVs
>>>
>>> In other words, it would be a miracle for something like that to ever
>>> have happened once while the claims from Paabo et. al. require it to
>>> have been going on all the time. That is, for human/hominid
>>> cross-breeding to have left detectable traces in the DNA of modern
>>> humans, it would have to have been entirely common.
>>>
>>> One zero-probability event in the history of the universe? Maybe, but
>>> not an infinite series of them, i.e. not something that stands
>>> everything we know about probability on its head.
>>
>> Severe case of Dunning-Kruger here. So much speculation on so little
>> knowledge. I leave it to others with more energy (Mark?) to take it apart.
>>
> No, this looks like a job for JTEM. Let them hash it out, and nobody
> else needs to be bothered.
>
What has panther2020 done that warrants that fate? You’re evil!

On 04/04/2024 09:47, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> Are we as closely related to Saccharomyces cerevisiae as we are to bananas?

We're more closely related to S. cerevisiae than we are to Musa
paradisiaca. The location of the eukaryote root has been disputed, but
it's generally agreed that Holomycota and Holozoa form a clade that's on
one side of the root, and Viridiplantae are on the other side.

--
alias Ernest Major

panther2020 wrote:

> We share around half of our genes with the ordinary banana...

> That assuredly does not come from humans BREEDING with bananas... It
> most liikely comes from humans EATING bananas, pretty much forever, and
> probably throughout the universe and not just on this planet.

That over-complicates things, eating is not necessary. I mean,
have you ever noticed how much dogs look like their owners? That's
of course not because they eat each other, it is perfectly sufficient
to be exposed to each other's morphic fields.

Just try it out yourself: Stay for eight months or so next to a
banana, doing absolutely nothing else but looking at it. At the
end of that period, we can compare you and the banana, and I'm sure
that by that time you two will look much moe similar than before

> Likewise, the first experience humans ever had with Neanderthals on
> Earth was watching friends and family members being killed and eaten by
> them, so that eating a Neanderthal that had been killed in some battle
> would have just been sending the Neanderthals a message in their own
> language...

> In both cases, what you seem to be talking about is bacterial insertian
> of genes.

> There is a claim that, because some humans have a certain small number
> of genes in common with Neanderthals, that humans and Neanderthals must
> have interbred. That amounts to thinking that a Neanderthal male
> could/would rape a woman and, rather than cooking and eating her
> afterwards as usual, somehow or other keep her alive long enough to bear
> a cross-species child, raise that child to reproductive age, and have
> him/her breed back into human populations without anybody catching on,
> i.e. the claim is ridiculous.

> In real life:

> Neanderthal females would kill that woman the first time her new owner
> left her alone for ten minutes.

> The woman wouldn't fare any better than the subjects of the commie
> attempts to breed humans and apes into super workers in the 1930s.

> Humans would notice the child was different (really different...)

> And humans would kill that child and everybody else like him as part of
> the same program which killed out the Neanderthal. They would not need
> DNA tests to determine who to kill for that sort of reason, it would be
> exceedingly obvious.

> https://youtu.be/mZbmywzGAVs

> In other words, it would be a miracle for something like that to ever
> have happened once while the claims from Paabo et. al. require it to
> have been going on all the time. That is, for human/hominid
> cross-breeding to have left detectable traces in the DNA of modern
> humans, it would have to have been entirely common.

> One zero-probability event in the history of the universe? Maybe, but
> not an infinite series of them, i.e. not something that stands
> everything we know about probability on its head.

Burkhard <b.schafer@ed.ac.uk> wrote:
> panther2020 wrote:
>
>> We share around half of our genes with the ordinary banana...
>
>> That assuredly does not come from humans BREEDING with bananas... It
>> most liikely comes from humans EATING bananas, pretty much forever, and
>> probably throughout the universe and not just on this planet.
>
> That over-complicates things, eating is not necessary. I mean,
> have you ever noticed how much dogs look like their owners? That's
> of course not because they eat each other, it is perfectly sufficient
> to be exposed to each other's morphic fields.
>
> Just try it out yourself: Stay for eight months or so next to a
> banana, doing absolutely nothing else but looking at it. At the
> end of that period, we can compare you and the banana, and I'm sure
> that by that time you two will look much moe similar than before
>
I’ve heard that helps for penis size or at least more so than eating
bananas. Cucumbers though! More morphic resonance please. I tried to stare
at a blimp hangar in Pompano. It failed to take. When I tried to eat the
blimp the local authorities got all against the science.

On 4/4/24 12:35 PM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
> John Harshman <john.harshman@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 4/3/24 7:14 AM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>> On 2024-04-03 13:29:25 +0000, panther2020 said:
>>>
>>>> We share around half of our genes with the ordinary banana...
>>>>
>>>> That assuredly does not come from humans BREEDING with bananas...  It
>>>> most liikely comes from humans EATING bananas, pretty much forever,
>>>> and probably throughout the universe and not just on  this planet.
>>>>
>>>> Likewise, the first experience humans ever had with Neanderthals on
>>>> Earth was watching friends and family members being killed and eaten
>>>> by them, so that eating a Neanderthal that had been killed in some
>>>> battle would have just been sending the Neanderthals a message in
>>>> their own language...
>>>>
>>>> In both cases, what you seem to be talking about is bacterial
>>>> insertian of genes.
>>>>
>>>> There is a claim that, because some humans have a certain small number
>>>> of genes in common with Neanderthals, that humans and Neanderthals
>>>> must have interbred. That amounts to thinking that a Neanderthal male
>>>> could/would rape a woman and, rather than cooking and eating her
>>>> afterwards as usual, somehow or other keep her alive long enough to
>>>> bear a cross-species child, raise that child to reproductive age, and
>>>> have him/her breed back into human populations without anybody
>>>> catching on, i.e. the claim is ridiculous.
>>>>
>>>> In real life:
>>>>
>>>> Neanderthal females would kill that woman the first time her new owner
>>>> left her alone for ten minutes.
>>>>
>>>> The woman wouldn't fare any better than the subjects of the commie
>>>> attempts to breed humans and apes into super workers in the 1930s.
>>>>
>>>> Humans would notice the child was different (really different...)
>>>>
>>>> And humans would kill that child and everybody else like him as part
>>>> of the same program which killed out the Neanderthal. They would not
>>>> need DNA tests to determine who to kill for that sort of reason, it
>>>> would be exceedingly obvious.
>>>>
>>>> https://youtu.be/mZbmywzGAVs
>>>>
>>>> In other words, it would be a miracle for something like that to ever
>>>> have happened once while the claims from Paabo et. al. require it to
>>>> have been going on all the time. That is, for human/hominid
>>>> cross-breeding to have left detectable traces in the DNA of modern
>>>> humans, it would have to have been entirely common.
>>>>
>>>> One zero-probability event in the history of the universe? Maybe, but
>>>> not an infinite series of them, i.e. not something that stands
>>>> everything we know about probability on its head.
>>>
>>> Severe case of Dunning-Kruger here. So much speculation on so little
>>> knowledge. I leave it to others with more energy (Mark?) to take it apart.
>>>
>> No, this looks like a job for JTEM. Let them hash it out, and nobody
>> else needs to be bothered.
>>
> What has panther2020 done that warrants that fate? You’re evil!
>
Give him a little more time. You'll come around.

On 2024-04-04 20:29:50 +0000, Ernest Major said:

> On 04/04/2024 09:47, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> Are we as closely related to Saccharomyces cerevisiae as we are to bananas?
>
> We're more closely related to S. cerevisiae than we are to Musa
> paradisiaca. The location of the eukaryote root has been disputed, but
> it's generally agreed that Holomycota and Holozoa form a clade that's
> on one side of the root, and Viridiplantae are on the other side.

No doubt you're right. I should have checked before pronouncing on our
cousin Saccharomyces cerevisiae.

--
athel cb : Biochemical Evolution, Garland Science, 2016