https://catholicherald.co.uk/im-a-cultural-christian-declares-richard-dawkins-the-worlds-most-famous-atheist/

https://tinyurl.com/2xw2x96a

<quote>
… Mr Dawkins, 83, said: "I do think we are culturally a Christian
country. I call myself a cultural Christian." He said: "I'm not a
believer, but there is a distinction between being a believing
Christian and a cultural Christian.

He added: "I love hymns and Christmas carols and I sort of feel at
home in the Christian ethos, and I feel that we are a Christian
country in that sense."

… [he] also said he “would not be happy if, for example, we lost all
our cathedrals and our beautiful parish churches”.

He continued: “So I call myself a cultural Christian and I think it
would be truly dreadful if we substituted any alternative religion.”

.... He said however that although he recognised its benefits of
Christian culture and enjoyed "living in a culturally Christian
country" at the same time he did "not believe a word of the Christian
faith".

</quote>

Dawkins has blamed religion for most of the evil in the world and has
described teaching religion to children as worse than sexual abuse.
Beats me how he can see "cultural" benefit in something so bad. Mind
you, he has come out with some rather weird views in recent years.

Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com> writes:

>
> Dawkins has blamed religion for most of the evil in the world and has
> described teaching religion to children as worse than sexual abuse.
> Beats me how he can see "cultural" benefit in something so bad. Mind
> you, he has come out with some rather weird views in recent years.

I should think he does it by cherry picking which bits of the bible to
pay attention to, which is what Christians do too, but different bits.

On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 12:36:22 +0100, Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:

>Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com> writes:
>
>>
>> Dawkins has blamed religion for most of the evil in the world and has
>> described teaching religion to children as worse than sexual abuse.
>> Beats me how he can see "cultural" benefit in something so bad. Mind
>> you, he has come out with some rather weird views in recent years.
>
>I should think he does it by cherry picking which bits of the bible to
>pay attention to, which is what Christians do too, but different bits.

I've read quite a bit of Dawkins over the years, he's one of my
favourite *science* writers but he's really dreadful when he starts
harping on about religion. AFAIR, he never suggested that parts of
religious beliefs were ok, he unequivocally condemned *all* religious
beliefs. I can't remember where but I recall him saying that the Pope
and the Archbishop of Canterbury weren't really much better than Osama
bin Laden, they just presented a kinder face.

Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com> writes:

> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 12:36:22 +0100, Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>>Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>>
>>> Dawkins has blamed religion for most of the evil in the world and
>>> has described teaching religion to children as worse than sexual
>>> abuse. Beats me how he can see "cultural" benefit in something so
>>> bad. Mind you, he has come out with some rather weird views in
>>> recent years.
>>
>>I should think he does it by cherry picking which bits of the bible to
>>pay attention to, which is what Christians do too, but different bits.
>
> I've read quite a bit of Dawkins over the years, he's one of my
> favourite *science* writers but he's really dreadful when he starts
> harping on about religion. AFAIR, he never suggested that parts of
> religious beliefs were ok, he unequivocally condemned *all* religious
> beliefs. I can't remember where but I recall him saying that the Pope
> and the Archbishop of Canterbury weren't really much better than Osama
> bin Laden, they just presented a kinder face.

The bible doesn't only contain beliefs though, for example "Love thy
neighbour as thy self" and "Do unto others as you would have done unto
you" are not beliefs.

He was a Christian until he was a teenager and he talked about it in
this series with Jonathon Miller:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0429323/

Strangely IMDB describes him as an Actor, Writer and Producer, known for Doctor
Who. :? Someone should tell them...

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1468026/?ref_=tt_cl_t_3

On 2024-04-11 17:27:41 +0000, Richmond said:

> Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 12:36:22 +0100, Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dawkins has blamed religion for most of the evil in the world and
>>>> has described teaching religion to children as worse than sexual
>>>> abuse. Beats me how he can see "cultural" benefit in something so
>>>> bad. Mind you, he has come out with some rather weird views in
>>>> recent years.
>>>
>>> I should think he does it by cherry picking which bits of the bible to
>>> pay attention to, which is what Christians do too, but different bits.
>>
>> I've read quite a bit of Dawkins over the years, he's one of my
>> favourite *science* writers but he's really dreadful when he starts
>> harping on about religion. AFAIR, he never suggested that parts of
>> religious beliefs were ok, he unequivocally condemned *all* religious
>> beliefs. I can't remember where but I recall him saying that the Pope
>> and the Archbishop of Canterbury weren't really much better than Osama
>> bin Laden, they just presented a kinder face.
>
> The bible doesn't only contain beliefs though, for example "Love thy
> neighbour as thy self" and "Do unto others as you would have done unto
> you" are not beliefs.
>
> He was a Christian until he was a teenager and he talked about it in
> this series with Jonathon Miller:
>
> https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0429323/
>
> Strangely IMDB describes him as an Actor, Writer and Producer, known for Doctor
> Who. :? Someone should tell them...

Confusing him with one of his wives.
>
> https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1468026/?ref_=tt_cl_t_3

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

> On 2024-04-11 17:27:41 +0000, Richmond said:

>> Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 12:36:22 +0100, Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dawkins has blamed religion for most of the evil in the world and
>>>>> has described teaching religion to children as worse than sexual
>>>>> abuse. Beats me how he can see "cultural" benefit in something so
>>>>> bad. Mind you, he has come out with some rather weird views in
>>>>> recent years.
>>>>
>>>> I should think he does it by cherry picking which bits of the bible to
>>>> pay attention to, which is what Christians do too, but different bits.
>>>
>>> I've read quite a bit of Dawkins over the years, he's one of my
>>> favourite *science* writers but he's really dreadful when he starts
>>> harping on about religion. AFAIR, he never suggested that parts of
>>> religious beliefs were ok, he unequivocally condemned *all* religious
>>> beliefs. I can't remember where but I recall him saying that the Pope
>>> and the Archbishop of Canterbury weren't really much better than Osama
>>> bin Laden, they just presented a kinder face.
>>
>> The bible doesn't only contain beliefs though, for example "Love thy
>> neighbour as thy self" and "Do unto others as you would have done unto
>> you" are not beliefs.
>>
>> He was a Christian until he was a teenager and he talked about it in
>> this series with Jonathon Miller:
>>
>> https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0429323/
>>
>> Strangely IMDB describes him as an Actor, Writer and Producer, known for Doctor
>> Who. :? Someone should tell them...

> Confusing him with one of his wives.

Hi did play (himself of course) in one episode, "The Stolen Earth". Though
I would not say he is mainly "known" for this one Cameo appearance, his
ex much more so, as you say

>>
>> https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1468026/?ref_=tt_cl_t_3

Martin Harran wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 12:36:22 +0100, Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>> Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>> Dawkins has blamed religion for most of the evil in the world and has
>>> described teaching religion to children as worse than sexual abuse.
>>> Beats me how he can see "cultural" benefit in something so bad. Mind
>>> you, he has come out with some rather weird views in recent years.
>>
>> I should think he does it by cherry picking which bits of the bible to
>> pay attention to, which is what Christians do too, but different bits.
>
> I've read quite a bit of Dawkins over the years, he's one of my
> favourite *science* writers but he's really dreadful when he starts
> harping on about religion. AFAIR, he never suggested that parts of
> religious beliefs were ok, he unequivocally condemned *all* religious
> beliefs. I can't remember where but I recall him saying that the Pope
> and the Archbishop of Canterbury weren't really much better than Osama
> bin Laden, they just presented a kinder face.

I'm reminded of a couple of Gandhi quotes

"If Christians would really live according
to the teachings of Christ, as found in the
Bible, all of India would be Christian today."

"Jesus is ideal and wonderful, but you
Christians - you are not like him."

“I like your Christ, I do not like your
Christians. Your Christians are so
unlike your Christ.”

and for extra credit

"What do I think of Western civilization? I
think it would be a very good idea."

On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 22:20:46 -0600, Pro Plyd
<invalide@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>Martin Harran wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 12:36:22 +0100, Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>> Dawkins has blamed religion for most of the evil in the world and has
>>>> described teaching religion to children as worse than sexual abuse.
>>>> Beats me how he can see "cultural" benefit in something so bad. Mind
>>>> you, he has come out with some rather weird views in recent years.
>>>
>>> I should think he does it by cherry picking which bits of the bible to
>>> pay attention to, which is what Christians do too, but different bits.
>>
>> I've read quite a bit of Dawkins over the years, he's one of my
>> favourite *science* writers but he's really dreadful when he starts
>> harping on about religion. AFAIR, he never suggested that parts of
>> religious beliefs were ok, he unequivocally condemned *all* religious
>> beliefs. I can't remember where but I recall him saying that the Pope
>> and the Archbishop of Canterbury weren't really much better than Osama
>> bin Laden, they just presented a kinder face.
>
>I'm reminded of a couple of Gandhi quotes
>
>
>"If Christians would really live according
>to the teachings of Christ, as found in the
>Bible, all of India would be Christian today."
>
>
>"Jesus is ideal and wonderful, but you
>Christians - you are not like him."
>
>“I like your Christ, I do not like your
>Christians. Your Christians are so
>unlike your Christ.”

Do you think Gandhi was applying that to *all* Christians or even
Christians in general and, if so do you agree with him?

>
>
>and for extra credit
>
>"What do I think of Western civilization? I
>think it would be a very good idea."

On 12/04/2024 13:06, Martin Harran wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 22:20:46 -0600, Pro Plyd
> <invalide@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Martin Harran wrote:
>>> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 12:36:22 +0100, Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dawkins has blamed religion for most of the evil in the world and has
>>>>> described teaching religion to children as worse than sexual abuse.
>>>>> Beats me how he can see "cultural" benefit in something so bad. Mind
>>>>> you, he has come out with some rather weird views in recent years.
>>>>
>>>> I should think he does it by cherry picking which bits of the bible to
>>>> pay attention to, which is what Christians do too, but different bits.
>>>
>>> I've read quite a bit of Dawkins over the years, he's one of my
>>> favourite *science* writers but he's really dreadful when he starts
>>> harping on about religion. AFAIR, he never suggested that parts of
>>> religious beliefs were ok, he unequivocally condemned *all* religious
>>> beliefs. I can't remember where but I recall him saying that the Pope
>>> and the Archbishop of Canterbury weren't really much better than Osama
>>> bin Laden, they just presented a kinder face.
>>
>> I'm reminded of a couple of Gandhi quotes
>>
>>
>> "If Christians would really live according
>> to the teachings of Christ, as found in the
>> Bible, all of India would be Christian today."
>>
>>
>> "Jesus is ideal and wonderful, but you
>> Christians - you are not like him."
>>
>> “I like your Christ, I do not like your
>> Christians. Your Christians are so
>> unlike your Christ.”
>
> Do you think Gandhi was applying that to *all* Christians or even
> Christians in general and, if so do you agree with him?

In the absence of any context to make me think otherwise I would take
these quotes at face value as applying to the generality of Christians.

>
>>
>>
>> and for extra credit
>>
>> "What do I think of Western civilization? I
>> think it would be a very good idea."
>

--
alias Ernest Major

On 4/13/24 3:59 AM, Ernest Major wrote:
> On 12/04/2024 13:06, Martin Harran wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 22:20:46 -0600, Pro Plyd
>> <invalide@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Martin Harran wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 12:36:22 +0100, Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dawkins has blamed religion for most of the evil in the world and has
>>>>>> described teaching religion to children as worse than sexual abuse.
>>>>>> Beats me how he can see "cultural" benefit in something so bad. Mind
>>>>>> you, he has come out with some rather weird views in recent years.
>>>>>
>>>>> I should think he does it by cherry picking which bits of the bible to
>>>>> pay attention to, which is what Christians do too, but different bits.
>>>>
>>>> I've read quite a bit of Dawkins over the years, he's one of my
>>>> favourite *science* writers but he's really dreadful when he starts
>>>> harping on about religion. AFAIR, he never suggested that parts of
>>>> religious beliefs were ok, he unequivocally condemned *all* religious
>>>> beliefs. I can't remember where but I recall him saying that the Pope
>>>> and the Archbishop of Canterbury weren't really much better than Osama
>>>> bin Laden, they just presented a kinder face.
>>>
>>> I'm reminded of a couple of Gandhi quotes
>>>
>>>
>>> "If Christians would really live according
>>> to the teachings of Christ, as found in the
>>> Bible, all of India would be Christian today."
>>>
>>>
>>> "Jesus is ideal and wonderful, but you
>>> Christians - you are not like him."
>>>
>>> “I like your Christ, I do not like your
>>> Christians. Your Christians are so
>>> unlike your Christ.”
>>
>> Do you think Gandhi was applying that to *all* Christians or even
>> Christians in general and, if so do you agree with him?
>
> In the absence of any context to make me think otherwise I would take
> these quotes at face value as applying to the generality of Christians.
>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> and for extra credit
>>>
>>> "What do I think of Western civilization? I
>>> think it would be a very good idea."
>>
>
To quote Ambrose Bierce in "The Devil's Dictionary":

Christian, n. One who believes that the New Testament is a divinely
inspired book admirably suited to the spiritual needs of his neighbor.
One who follows the teachings of Christ in so far as they are not
inconsistent with a life of sin.

Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com> wrote:
> https://catholicherald.co.uk/im-a-cultural-christian-declares-richard-dawkins-the-worlds-most-famous-atheist/
>
> https://tinyurl.com/2xw2x96a
>
> <quote>
> … Mr Dawkins, 83, said: "I do think we are culturally a Christian
> country. I call myself a cultural Christian." He said: "I'm not a
> believer, but there is a distinction between being a believing
> Christian and a cultural Christian.
>
> He added: "I love hymns and Christmas carols and I sort of feel at
> home in the Christian ethos, and I feel that we are a Christian
> country in that sense."
>
> … [he] also said he “would not be happy if, for example, we lost all
> our cathedrals and our beautiful parish churches”.
>
> He continued: “So I call myself a cultural Christian and I think it
> would be truly dreadful if we substituted any alternative religion.”
>
> ... He said however that although he recognised its benefits of
> Christian culture and enjoyed "living in a culturally Christian
> country" at the same time he did "not believe a word of the Christian
> faith".
>
> </quote>
>
> Dawkins has blamed religion for most of the evil in the world and has
> described teaching religion to children as worse than sexual abuse.
> Beats me how he can see "cultural" benefit in something so bad. Mind
> you, he has come out with some rather weird views in recent years.
>
I think the key contrast for Dawkins here is with the Islam bugbear.
Remember clockboy?
https://www.cnn.com/2015/11/25/europe/uk-richard-dawkins-clock-boy-ahmed-mohamed/

Or this gem:
https://twitter.com/RichardDawkins/status/365473573768400896

Hemant Mehta offers a perspective on this:
https://www.friendlyatheist.com/p/richard-dawkins-says-christianity

Also, there’s an undercurrent of regret brewing amongst some IDW atheists
that the alleged success of “new atheism” had opened a god-sized hole
making people susceptible to wokeism. It’s called the substitution
hypothesis. Peter Boghossian, another IDW atheist, is a proponent. You
can’t make this shit up if you tried. The atheist right wing is dovetailing
with conservative Christians on some social issues.

Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 22:20:46 -0600, Pro Plyd
> <invalide@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Martin Harran wrote:
>>> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 12:36:22 +0100, Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dawkins has blamed religion for most of the evil in the world and has
>>>>> described teaching religion to children as worse than sexual abuse.
>>>>> Beats me how he can see "cultural" benefit in something so bad. Mind
>>>>> you, he has come out with some rather weird views in recent years.
>>>>
>>>> I should think he does it by cherry picking which bits of the bible to
>>>> pay attention to, which is what Christians do too, but different bits.
>>>
>>> I've read quite a bit of Dawkins over the years, he's one of my
>>> favourite *science* writers but he's really dreadful when he starts
>>> harping on about religion. AFAIR, he never suggested that parts of
>>> religious beliefs were ok, he unequivocally condemned *all* religious
>>> beliefs. I can't remember where but I recall him saying that the Pope
>>> and the Archbishop of Canterbury weren't really much better than Osama
>>> bin Laden, they just presented a kinder face.
>>
>> I'm reminded of a couple of Gandhi quotes
>>
>>
>> "If Christians would really live according
>> to the teachings of Christ, as found in the
>> Bible, all of India would be Christian today."
>>
>>
>> "Jesus is ideal and wonderful, but you
>> Christians - you are not like him."
>>
>> “I like your Christ, I do not like your
>> Christians. Your Christians are so
>> unlike your Christ.”
>
> Do you think Gandhi was applying that to *all* Christians or even
> Christians in general and, if so do you agree with him?
>
India is not looking so good now is it, as they have a Hindu nationalism
problem that rivals Christian nationalism in the US? Buddhism looks great
as an alternative until you look at its exemplars in Sri Lanka and
Burma/Myanmar. Religion doesn’t quite live up to expectations in so far as
its track record on cultivating our better angels. Our crooked timber wins
out every time (channeling Pinker).

Dawkins tends to show atheism fares no better itself.

On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 08:48:28 -0700, erik simpson
<eastside.erik@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 4/13/24 3:59 AM, Ernest Major wrote:
>> On 12/04/2024 13:06, Martin Harran wrote:
>>> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 22:20:46 -0600, Pro Plyd
>>> <invalide@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Martin Harran wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 12:36:22 +0100, Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dawkins has blamed religion for most of the evil in the world and has
>>>>>>> described teaching religion to children as worse than sexual abuse.
>>>>>>> Beats me how he can see "cultural" benefit in something so bad. Mind
>>>>>>> you, he has come out with some rather weird views in recent years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I should think he does it by cherry picking which bits of the bible to
>>>>>> pay attention to, which is what Christians do too, but different bits.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've read quite a bit of Dawkins over the years, he's one of my
>>>>> favourite *science* writers but he's really dreadful when he starts
>>>>> harping on about religion. AFAIR, he never suggested that parts of
>>>>> religious beliefs were ok, he unequivocally condemned *all* religious
>>>>> beliefs. I can't remember where but I recall him saying that the Pope
>>>>> and the Archbishop of Canterbury weren't really much better than Osama
>>>>> bin Laden, they just presented a kinder face.
>>>>
>>>> I'm reminded of a couple of Gandhi quotes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "If Christians would really live according
>>>> to the teachings of Christ, as found in the
>>>> Bible, all of India would be Christian today."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Jesus is ideal and wonderful, but you
>>>> Christians - you are not like him."
>>>>
>>>> “I like your Christ, I do not like your
>>>> Christians. Your Christians are so
>>>> unlike your Christ.”
>>>
>>> Do you think Gandhi was applying that to *all* Christians or even
>>> Christians in general and, if so do you agree with him?
>>
>> In the absence of any context to make me think otherwise I would take
>> these quotes at face value as applying to the generality of Christians.
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> and for extra credit
>>>>
>>>> "What do I think of Western civilization? I
>>>> think it would be a very good idea."
>>>
>>
>To quote Ambrose Bierce in "The Devil's Dictionary":
>
>Christian, n. One who believes that the New Testament is a divinely
>inspired book admirably suited to the spiritual needs of his neighbor.
>One who follows the teachings of Christ in so far as they are not
>inconsistent with a life of sin.

Out of curiosity, how many Christians have you personally got to know
who would fit that description?

On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 11:59:21 +0100, Ernest Major
<{$to$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>On 12/04/2024 13:06, Martin Harran wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 22:20:46 -0600, Pro Plyd
>> <invalide@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Martin Harran wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 12:36:22 +0100, Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dawkins has blamed religion for most of the evil in the world and has
>>>>>> described teaching religion to children as worse than sexual abuse.
>>>>>> Beats me how he can see "cultural" benefit in something so bad. Mind
>>>>>> you, he has come out with some rather weird views in recent years.
>>>>>
>>>>> I should think he does it by cherry picking which bits of the bible to
>>>>> pay attention to, which is what Christians do too, but different bits.
>>>>
>>>> I've read quite a bit of Dawkins over the years, he's one of my
>>>> favourite *science* writers but he's really dreadful when he starts
>>>> harping on about religion. AFAIR, he never suggested that parts of
>>>> religious beliefs were ok, he unequivocally condemned *all* religious
>>>> beliefs. I can't remember where but I recall him saying that the Pope
>>>> and the Archbishop of Canterbury weren't really much better than Osama
>>>> bin Laden, they just presented a kinder face.
>>>
>>> I'm reminded of a couple of Gandhi quotes
>>>
>>>
>>> "If Christians would really live according
>>> to the teachings of Christ, as found in the
>>> Bible, all of India would be Christian today."
>>>
>>>
>>> "Jesus is ideal and wonderful, but you
>>> Christians - you are not like him."
>>>
>>> "I like your Christ, I do not like your
>>> Christians. Your Christians are so
>>> unlike your Christ."
>>
>> Do you think Gandhi was applying that to *all* Christians or even
>> Christians in general and, if so do you agree with him?
>
>In the absence of any context to make me think otherwise I would take
>these quotes at face value as applying to the generality of Christians.

That would disappoint me. I'm pretty sure that Gandhi would have
experienced firsthand the bigotry that Indians suffer due to
stereotyping, and I would like to think he wouldn't fall into the trap
of doing the same to other groups.

No guarantees of that of course - we only have to look at how the
Jewish people suffered persecution and attempts to exterminate them
yet adopt much the same approach in Gaza :(

>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> and for extra credit
>>>
>>> "What do I think of Western civilization? I
>>> think it would be a very good idea."
>>

Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 11:59:21 +0100, Ernest Major
> <{$to$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>On 12/04/2024 13:06, Martin Harran wrote:
>>> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 22:20:46 -0600, Pro Plyd
>>> <invalide@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm reminded of a couple of Gandhi quotes
>>>>
>>>> "If Christians would really live according
>>>> to the teachings of Christ, as found in the
>>>> Bible, all of India would be Christian today."
>>>>
>>>> "Jesus is ideal and wonderful, but you
>>>> Christians - you are not like him."
>>>>
>>>> "I like your Christ, I do not like your
>>>> Christians. Your Christians are so
>>>> unlike your Christ."
>>>
>>> Do you think Gandhi was applying that to *all* Christians or even
>>> Christians in general and, if so do you agree with him?
>>
>>In the absence of any context to make me think otherwise I would take
>>these quotes at face value as applying to the generality of Christians.
>
> That would disappoint me. I'm pretty sure that Gandhi would have
> experienced firsthand the bigotry that Indians suffer due to
> stereotyping, and I would like to think he wouldn't fall into the trap
> of doing the same to other groups.

As far as I'm aware, all of those quotes are apocryphal. At least,
none of them has been reliably attributed to Gandhi.

Andrew.

On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 14:14:32 +0100, Martin Harran
<martinharran@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 08:48:28 -0700, erik simpson
><eastside.erik@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On 4/13/24 3:59 AM, Ernest Major wrote:
>>> On 12/04/2024 13:06, Martin Harran wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 22:20:46 -0600, Pro Plyd
>>>> <invalide@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Martin Harran wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 12:36:22 +0100, Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dawkins has blamed religion for most of the evil in the world and has
>>>>>>>> described teaching religion to children as worse than sexual abuse.
>>>>>>>> Beats me how he can see "cultural" benefit in something so bad. Mind
>>>>>>>> you, he has come out with some rather weird views in recent years.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I should think he does it by cherry picking which bits of the bible to
>>>>>>> pay attention to, which is what Christians do too, but different bits.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've read quite a bit of Dawkins over the years, he's one of my
>>>>>> favourite *science* writers but he's really dreadful when he starts
>>>>>> harping on about religion. AFAIR, he never suggested that parts of
>>>>>> religious beliefs were ok, he unequivocally condemned *all* religious
>>>>>> beliefs. I can't remember where but I recall him saying that the Pope
>>>>>> and the Archbishop of Canterbury weren't really much better than Osama
>>>>>> bin Laden, they just presented a kinder face.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm reminded of a couple of Gandhi quotes
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "If Christians would really live according
>>>>> to the teachings of Christ, as found in the
>>>>> Bible, all of India would be Christian today."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Jesus is ideal and wonderful, but you
>>>>> Christians - you are not like him."
>>>>>
>>>>> “I like your Christ, I do not like your
>>>>> Christians. Your Christians are so
>>>>> unlike your Christ.”
>>>>
>>>> Do you think Gandhi was applying that to *all* Christians or even
>>>> Christians in general and, if so do you agree with him?
>>>
>>> In the absence of any context to make me think otherwise I would take
>>> these quotes at face value as applying to the generality of Christians.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> and for extra credit
>>>>>
>>>>> "What do I think of Western civilization? I
>>>>> think it would be a very good idea."
>>>>
>>>
>>To quote Ambrose Bierce in "The Devil's Dictionary":
>>
>>Christian, n. One who believes that the New Testament is a divinely
>>inspired book admirably suited to the spiritual needs of his neighbor.
>>One who follows the teachings of Christ in so far as they are not
>>inconsistent with a life of sin.
>
>Out of curiosity, how many Christians have you personally got to know
>who would fit that description?

Not many, if any, I'd guess.