(Re-send via dizum, just in case ...)

Hi Steve and hi dear YAMN community,

I would like to make a proposal for an incentive system for the YAMN Mix Nextwork,
which is voluntary for remops and its userbase, while very easy to implement.

As we know Hal Finney proposed long before Bitcoin saw its light a paid Remailer
System, but his idea never took of until now with Nym. Later came hashcash, but
this was also no reward system.

Since a lot of young people are avid crypto currency fans and ETH became quite
popular, compared to Bitcoin, due to NFTs I like to propose voluntary ETH usage
for the YAMN Mixnetwork, which should encourage (young) people to get interested
in your YAMN technology, which you thankfully invented.

I would like to propose that you include and additional remailer-request parameter
for YAMN, which is Subject: remailer-wallet, or whatever you like to prefer.

When this request is send to a YAMN Remailer it should return from a text file
the ETH wallet address from the Remop running his Remailer(s).

In the current case for Hal and Len the ETH address is:

0x5a26532e9fecc530ab0dacc636ea529c7e096e3d

Now comes the voluntary and IMHO fun part ... :-)

As we all can assume that people like to stay anonymous and do not like to
spend money for a PayPal or Bitcoin transaction I like to propose that users
and supporters of the YAMN Network can mine ETH. This is a very simple GPU
based process, easy to use and to set-up. Remops need later only provide
for the remailer-request their ETH Wallet address and interested people,
which like to support the YAMN project, or encourage young people to run
a Remailer, simple can set-up for free and with no registration a worker
and run him as long as they wish and often.

Here is the page I use, as an example user, to mine ETH for Hal and Len:

https://ethermine.org/miners/0x5a26532e9fecc530ab0dacc636ea529c7e096e3d/dashboard

As people can see, there is one worker running, with the nickname 'futagoza'
which is currently the miner running on my PC, and which mines for the ETH
address, shown in the URL, for Hal and Len.

People which would like support now Hal and Len can simple press the above
button on the right (in orange) and follow the instructions to run a miner
for a Remailer or Remailers in the YAMN Network.

While I am personally not interested in making money with this, it would
show me at least that people show support when using my Remailers.

And as everybody can see, no one is forced to use this, while it would take
for you only a couple of additional lines in the YAMN code and maybe a little
adjustment in the Pinger software.

Last but not least this would, in case you and the community like it, be then
AFAIK the first Mixnet with a production ready incentive system and additionally
people could also send directly from their ETH wallet funds, instead of mining
voluntarely.

Hope you and the YAMN community like my proposal and that it
lets grow the YAMN ecosystem.

I encourage the a.p.a-s community to give it a try and let a worker run for
a little while, with my provided address, to see the stats changing and that
remops can watch this too. The ETH wallet I currently use is MetaMask, a popular
Browser based wallet.

Best regards
Stefan

Yamn Remailer <noreply@mix1.remailer.xyz> wrote:
> (Re-send via dizum, just in case ...)

> As we all can assume that people like to stay anonymous and do not like to
> spend money for a PayPal or Bitcoin transaction I like to propose that users
> and supporters of the YAMN Network can mine ETH. This is a very simple GPU
> based process, easy to use and to set-up. Remops need later only provide
> for the remailer-request their ETH Wallet address and interested people,
> which like to support the YAMN project, or encourage young people to run
> a Remailer, simple can set-up for free and with no registration a worker
> and run him as long as they wish and often.
> Here is the page I use, as an example user, to mine ETH for Hal and Len:
> https://ethermine.org/miners/0x5a26532e9fecc530ab0dacc636ea529c7e096e3d/dashboard

It should be I have not tested yet) easy to anonymously donate, when people
use the worker parameters via a socat/tor set-up. I may test this out, as soon
as I have time.

In case organizations with big GPU rigs, please give a worker a try for my address.

Regards
Stefan

On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 17:31:40 +0100, Yamn Remailer <noreply@mix1.remailer.xyz> wrote:
>Hal

"HAL was told to lie... by people who find it easy to lie."
--Dr. Chandra(Sivasubramanian Chandrasegaram Pillai/aka Mr.
Langley) in '2010: The Year We Make Contact'(c)1984, MGM

On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 6:53:05 PM UTC+1, D wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 17:31:40 +0100, Yamn Remailer <nor...@mix1.remailer.xyz> wrote:
> >Hal
>
> "HAL was told to lie... by people who find it easy to lie."
> --Dr. Chandra(Sivasubramanian Chandrasegaram Pillai/aka Mr.
> Langley) in '2010: The Year We Make Contact'(c)1984, MGM

C'mon D ... Hal Finney was a great person, who invented with
another guy (forgot his name) the Cypherpunk Remailer, the
key management (secretly) for PGP and also did the first Bitcoin
transaction with Satoshi, besides other things. I had the great
luck, back then, to get in contact with him and many other great
Cypherpunks.

Regards
Stefan

On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 6:40:17 PM UTC+1, Stefan Claas wrote:
> Yamn Remailer <nor...@mix1.remailer.xyz> wrote:
> > (Re-send via dizum, just in case ...)
> > As we all can assume that people like to stay anonymous and do not like to
> > spend money for a PayPal or Bitcoin transaction I like to propose that users
> > and supporters of the YAMN Network can mine ETH. This is a very simple GPU
> > based process, easy to use and to set-up. Remops need later only provide
> > for the remailer-request their ETH Wallet address and interested people,
> > which like to support the YAMN project, or encourage young people to run
> > a Remailer, simple can set-up for free and with no registration a worker
> > and run him as long as they wish and often.
> > Here is the page I use, as an example user, to mine ETH for Hal and Len:
> > https://ethermine.org/miners/0x5a26532e9fecc530ab0dacc636ea529c7e096e3d/dashboard
> It should be I have not tested yet) easy to anonymously donate, when people
> use the worker parameters via a socat/tor set-up. I may test this out, as soon
> as I have time.
>
> In case organizations with big GPU rigs, please give a worker a try for my address.

Well, I looked a bit more around and remember Monero, which would give Remops
privacy and therefore I just downloaded a Monero Miner and also the wallet.

If someone uses a monero miner here is my adress

47J6Ef9v361YntTJ3YyN1FHQ6RtJ8a32kAQ8SAXduYrRSoUYv4bubFWieNj8UUhFubWXBunxC16juQ8iwGasC1wZGaRvpkj

Regards and good night,
Stefan

On 2022-01-27 11:31, Yamn Remailer wrote:
> (Re-send via dizum, just in case ...)
>
> Hi Steve and hi dear YAMN community,
>
> I would like to make a proposal for an incentive system for the YAMN Mix Nextwork,
> which is voluntary for remops and its userbase, while very easy to implement.
>
> As we know Hal Finney proposed long before Bitcoin saw its light a paid Remailer
> System, but his idea never took of until now with Nym. Later came hashcash, but
> this was also no reward system.
>
> Since a lot of young people are avid crypto currency fans and ETH became quite
> popular, compared to Bitcoin, due to NFTs I like to propose voluntary ETH usage
> for the YAMN Mixnetwork, which should encourage (young) people to get interested
> in your YAMN technology, which you thankfully invented.
>
> I would like to propose that you include and additional remailer-request parameter
> for YAMN, which is Subject: remailer-wallet, or whatever you like to prefer.
>
> When this request is send to a YAMN Remailer it should return from a text file
> the ETH wallet address from the Remop running his Remailer(s).
>
> In the current case for Hal and Len the ETH address is:
>
> 0x5a26532e9fecc530ab0dacc636ea529c7e096e3d
>
> Now comes the voluntary and IMHO fun part ... :-)
>
> As we all can assume that people like to stay anonymous and do not like to
> spend money for a PayPal or Bitcoin transaction I like to propose that users
> and supporters of the YAMN Network can mine ETH. This is a very simple GPU
> based process, easy to use and to set-up. Remops need later only provide
> for the remailer-request their ETH Wallet address and interested people,
> which like to support the YAMN project, or encourage young people to run
> a Remailer, simple can set-up for free and with no registration a worker
> and run him as long as they wish and often.
>
> Here is the page I use, as an example user, to mine ETH for Hal and Len:
>
> https://ethermine.org/miners/0x5a26532e9fecc530ab0dacc636ea529c7e096e3d/dashboard
>
> As people can see, there is one worker running, with the nickname 'futagoza'
> which is currently the miner running on my PC, and which mines for the ETH
> address, shown in the URL, for Hal and Len.
>
> People which would like support now Hal and Len can simple press the above
> button on the right (in orange) and follow the instructions to run a miner
> for a Remailer or Remailers in the YAMN Network.
>
> While I am personally not interested in making money with this, it would
> show me at least that people show support when using my Remailers.
>
> And as everybody can see, no one is forced to use this, while it would take
> for you only a couple of additional lines in the YAMN code and maybe a little
> adjustment in the Pinger software.
>
> Last but not least this would, in case you and the community like it, be then
> AFAIK the first Mixnet with a production ready incentive system and additionally
> people could also send directly from their ETH wallet funds, instead of mining
> voluntarely.
>
> Hope you and the YAMN community like my proposal and that it
> lets grow the YAMN ecosystem.

Mining ethereum or monero coins seems like a thoroughly unnecessary
activity to donate to a YAMN remailer operator. Not to mention
environmentally damaging.

<https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2021/11/bitcoin-mining-yields-climate-chaos-faculty-tell-nys-assembly>

Changing the code of YAMN to enable this strategy seems even more
unnecessary and wrong-headed.

In the past I tried holding out a tip jar by posting my monero key in my
sig. Then I stopped doing it when I realized how scammy and
environmentally damaging virtual coin is.

--
SEC3

YAMN Tutorials - https://sec3.net/yamnhelp

SEC3 <admin@sec3.net> wrote:
> On 2022-01-27 11:31, Yamn Remailer wrote:
> > (Re-send via dizum, just in case ...)
> >
> > Hi Steve and hi dear YAMN community,
> >
> > I would like to make a proposal for an incentive system for the YAMN Mix Nextwork,
> > which is voluntary for remops and its userbase, while very easy to implement.
> >
> > As we know Hal Finney proposed long before Bitcoin saw its light a paid Remailer
> > System, but his idea never took of until now with Nym. Later came hashcash, but
> > this was also no reward system.
> >
> > Since a lot of young people are avid crypto currency fans and ETH became quite
> > popular, compared to Bitcoin, due to NFTs I like to propose voluntary ETH usage
> > for the YAMN Mixnetwork, which should encourage (young) people to get interested
> > in your YAMN technology, which you thankfully invented.
> >
> > I would like to propose that you include and additional remailer-request parameter
> > for YAMN, which is Subject: remailer-wallet, or whatever you like to prefer.
> >
> > When this request is send to a YAMN Remailer it should return from a text file
> > the ETH wallet address from the Remop running his Remailer(s).
> >
> > In the current case for Hal and Len the ETH address is:
> >
> > 0x5a26532e9fecc530ab0dacc636ea529c7e096e3d
> >
> > Now comes the voluntary and IMHO fun part ... :-)
> >
> > As we all can assume that people like to stay anonymous and do not like to
> > spend money for a PayPal or Bitcoin transaction I like to propose that users
> > and supporters of the YAMN Network can mine ETH. This is a very simple GPU
> > based process, easy to use and to set-up. Remops need later only provide
> > for the remailer-request their ETH Wallet address and interested people,
> > which like to support the YAMN project, or encourage young people to run
> > a Remailer, simple can set-up for free and with no registration a worker
> > and run him as long as they wish and often.
> >
> > Here is the page I use, as an example user, to mine ETH for Hal and Len:
> >
> > https://ethermine.org/miners/0x5a26532e9fecc530ab0dacc636ea529c7e096e3d/dashboard
> >
> > As people can see, there is one worker running, with the nickname 'futagoza'
> > which is currently the miner running on my PC, and which mines for the ETH
> > address, shown in the URL, for Hal and Len.
> >
> > People which would like support now Hal and Len can simple press the above
> > button on the right (in orange) and follow the instructions to run a miner
> > for a Remailer or Remailers in the YAMN Network.
> >
> > While I am personally not interested in making money with this, it would
> > show me at least that people show support when using my Remailers.
> >
> > And as everybody can see, no one is forced to use this, while it would take
> > for you only a couple of additional lines in the YAMN code and maybe a little
> > adjustment in the Pinger software.
> >
> > Last but not least this would, in case you and the community like it, be then
> > AFAIK the first Mixnet with a production ready incentive system and additionally
> > people could also send directly from their ETH wallet funds, instead of mining
> > voluntarely.
> >
> > Hope you and the YAMN community like my proposal and that it
> > lets grow the YAMN ecosystem.
> Mining ethereum or monero coins seems like a thoroughly unnecessary
> activity to donate to a YAMN remailer operator. Not to mention
> environmentally damaging.
> <https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2021/11/bitcoin-mining-yields-climate-chaos-faculty-tell-nys-assembly>
> Changing the code of YAMN to enable this strategy seems even more
> unnecessary and wrong-headed.
> In the past I tried holding out a tip jar by posting my monero key in my
> sig. Then I stopped doing it when I realized how scammy and
> environmentally damaging virtual coin is.

Good points, but Monero (I will no longer suggest ETH due to the fact
that, as understood, mining there will be soon over in 2022) is IMHO
not so energy hungry like Bitcoin and we all can not deny that crypto
currencies will probably not go away soon. And as I said it is voluntarely
for the Remops and the community. Sure, Zax does not need to change
the code, because a Remop can put his Monero address in his Remailer
help file, as I will do soon. The idea with an extra parameter was that
this is offically supported for the YAMN Remailer Network, compared
to the old Mixmaster Network and *should hopefully* encourage people
to get interested in YAMN, because I see YAMN, besides Nym will have
a great future, because of its modern code base (Golang/Rust).

I yesterday checked out Monero again and think it is an ideal crypto
currency for Anonymity related Networks and Monero is also traded
at exchanges and not so expensive like Bitcoin, plus Monero (I will
test this out on an old Laptop) allows also CPU mining.

Finally (and like I said, it is voluntarely) young people love crypto currencies,
Golang and Rust, so why not let them use/play with all these components.
in comparison to Nym, where the 'remops' there get automatically rewarded.

I see absolutely no harm in that and while I do not know the YAMN user base
I believe when for example privacy organizations etc. use modern YAMN they
could support the YAMN Network and others which love playing with crypto
tools, can run a miner sporadically in the background, while daily surfing, to
support the YAMN project, which may also encourage Zax to brainstorm a
bit the things in his README, i.e. 'TBA'. ;-)

Regards
Stefan

On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 7:55:27 PM UTC+1, Stefan Claas wrote:

> I see absolutely no harm in that and while I do not know the YAMN user base
> I believe when for example privacy organizations etc. use modern YAMN they
> could support the YAMN Network and others which love playing with crypto
> tools, can run a miner sporadically in the background, while daily surfing, to
> support the YAMN project, which may also encourage Zax to brainstorm a
> bit the things in his README, i.e. 'TBA'. ;-)

A quick look, if I have not overlooked something, tells me that in config.go one
extra code line would be needed and in server.go seven lines of code.

Regards
Stefan

On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 8:56:27 PM UTC+1, Stefan Claas wrote:
> On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 7:55:27 PM UTC+1, Stefan Claas wrote:
>
> > I see absolutely no harm in that and while I do not know the YAMN user base
> > I believe when for example privacy organizations etc. use modern YAMN they
> > could support the YAMN Network and others which love playing with crypto
> > tools, can run a miner sporadically in the background, while daily surfing, to
> > support the YAMN project, which may also encourage Zax to brainstorm a
> > bit the things in his README, i.e. 'TBA'. ;-)
> A quick look, if I have not overlooked something, tells me that in config.go one
> extra code line would be needed and in server.go seven lines of code.

My proposal would be then something like a 'cfg.Files.Wallet', which would allow
Remops to use whatever info (maybe signed with the Remops PGP key) they put
in the wallet.txt file. Well, just a thought.

Regards
Stefan

Stefan Claas <spam.trap.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 8:56:27 PM UTC+1, Stefan Claas wrote:
> > On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 7:55:27 PM UTC+1, Stefan Claas wrote:
> >
> > > I see absolutely no harm in that and while I do not know the YAMN user base
> > > I believe when for example privacy organizations etc. use modern YAMN they
> > > could support the YAMN Network and others which love playing with crypto
> > > tools, can run a miner sporadically in the background, while daily surfing, to
> > > support the YAMN project, which may also encourage Zax to brainstorm a
> > > bit the things in his README, i.e. 'TBA'. ;-)
> > A quick look, if I have not overlooked something, tells me that in config.go one
> > extra code line would be needed and in server.go seven lines of code.
> My proposal would be then something like a 'cfg.Files.Wallet', which would allow
> Remops to use whatever info (maybe signed with the Remops PGP key) they put
> in the wallet.txt file. Well, just a thought.

Ok, I downloaded the latest release of YAMN, from Zax's GitHub repository and
patched YAMN. It was actually one more line to add in the code and the Go compiler
did not complain and Len is now running with the patched YAMN version.

Let's see if I have messed-up things ...

If people like to try-out they can simply send a remailer request to Len
with the Subject: remailer-wallet

Hope Zax is not angry with my proposal and I will not distribute this version,
unless he of course would look at it and correct it or gives his green light!

Regards
Stefan

On Sat, 29 Jan 2022 07:24:43 +0800, "Len YAMN Remop" <stefan@ctemplar.com> wrote:
>If people like

"them"