On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 2:35:15 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> I'm sure George Dance hasn't run away, Pendragon, but, again, I'll let George speak for himself.
>
> As for Edgar Allan Poe, it seems to be a historical fact that he was an alcoholic, was suspected of being a drug addict who married his thirteen year old cousin.
>
> Are you trying to deny these historical facts about Edgar Allan Poe, Pendragon?

It is a *historical fact* (established and supported by all of Poe's modern biographers) that he was none of the above.

It is a *historical fact* that Griswold's lies have long been discredited (along with his own reputation).

The *historical facts* are as follows:
1) Poe had an extremely tolerance for alcohol and sought to avoid it at all costs. He drank when social situations demanded it, and then only in small quantities. Later in life he took a temperance oath as a means of refusing drinks in such situations.
2) Poe did not use drugs.
3) Poe's marriage was built out of filial love (becoming romantic) rather than from a sexual preference for young (albeit, then, "adult," women).

The *historical facts* regarding Will Donkey are as follows:
1) Donkey began drinking (on a daily or practically daily) basis at the age of 13.
2) Donkey began regularly using drugs at the age of 13.
3) Donkey began having sex with girls aged 13 ("or even younger") at the age of 13.
4) Donkey's 17-year old bride eventually ran away and faked her own death in an attempt to rid herself of the Donkey forever.

On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 2:51:43 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 1:33:53 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>
> > Again, you're mistaken, Corey, I like words.
> >
> > After all, I've been writing poetry for over forty years now.
> >
> > --
> > Shadowville Mythos poetry blog:
> > https://shadowville-mythos.blogspot.com/
> > HTH and HAND.
> Hateful post-edit noted.

You're confused, there's no hate here.

🙂

On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 2:54:56 PM UTC-5, cocodeso...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 2:35:15 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > I'm sure George Dance hasn't run away, Pendragon, but, again, I'll let George speak for himself.
> >
> > As for Edgar Allan Poe, it seems to be a historical fact that he was an alcoholic, was suspected of being a drug addict who married his thirteen year old cousin.
> >
> > Are you trying to deny these historical facts about Edgar Allan Poe, Pendragon?
> It is a *historical fact* (established and supported by all of Poe's modern biographers) that he was none of the above.
>
> It is a *historical fact* that Griswold's lies have long been discredited (along with his own reputation).
>
> The *historical facts* are as follows:
> 1) Poe had an extremely tolerance for alcohol and sought to avoid it at all costs. He drank when social situations demanded it, and then only in small quantities. Later in life he took a temperance oath as a means of refusing drinks in such situations.
> 2) Poe did not use drugs.
> 3) Poe's marriage was built out of filial love (becoming romantic) rather than from a sexual preference for young (albeit, then, "adult," women).
>
> The *historical facts* regarding Will Donkey are as follows:
> 1) Donkey began drinking (on a daily or practically daily) basis at the age of 13.
> 2) Donkey began regularly using drugs at the age of 13.
> 3) Donkey began having sex with girls aged 13 ("or even younger") at the age of 13.
> 4) Donkey's 17-year old bride eventually ran away and faked her own death in an attempt to rid herself of the Donkey forever.
: Once upon a midnight dreary: The life and addictions of Edgar Allan Poe by Robert Patterson, MD
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1336506/pdf/cmaj00261-0154.pdf

Are you trying to claim that it isn't a historical fact that Edgar Allan Poe married his thirteen year old cousin, Pendragon?

Edgar Allan Poe's alcoholism and drug use may be questiones, but all the biographies agree that Edgar Allan Poe was a grown man of 27-years old who married his 13-year old cousin.

And so it goes.

On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:00:33 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 2:51:43 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 1:33:53 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >
> > > Again, you're mistaken, Corey, I like words.
> > >
> > > After all, I've been writing poetry for over forty years now.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Shadowville Mythos poetry blog:
> > > https://shadowville-mythos.blogspot.com/
> > > HTH and HAND.
> > Hateful post-edit noted.
> You're confused, there's no hate here.
>
> 🙂

I am not confused. You are both hateful and dishonest.

On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:05:31 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 2:54:56 PM UTC-5, cocodeso...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 2:35:15 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > I'm sure George Dance hasn't run away, Pendragon, but, again, I'll let George speak for himself.
> > >
> > > As for Edgar Allan Poe, it seems to be a historical fact that he was an alcoholic, was suspected of being a drug addict who married his thirteen year old cousin.
> > >
> > > Are you trying to deny these historical facts about Edgar Allan Poe, Pendragon?
> > It is a *historical fact* (established and supported by all of Poe's modern biographers) that he was none of the above.
> >
> > It is a *historical fact* that Griswold's lies have long been discredited (along with his own reputation).
> >
> > The *historical facts* are as follows:
> > 1) Poe had an extremely tolerance for alcohol and sought to avoid it at all costs. He drank when social situations demanded it, and then only in small quantities. Later in life he took a temperance oath as a means of refusing drinks in such situations.
> > 2) Poe did not use drugs.
> > 3) Poe's marriage was built out of filial love (becoming romantic) rather than from a sexual preference for young (albeit, then, "adult," women).
> >
> > The *historical facts* regarding Will Donkey are as follows:
> > 1) Donkey began drinking (on a daily or practically daily) basis at the age of 13.
> > 2) Donkey began regularly using drugs at the age of 13.
> > 3) Donkey began having sex with girls aged 13 ("or even younger") at the age of 13.
> > 4) Donkey's 17-year old bride eventually ran away and faked her own death in an attempt to rid herself of the Donkey forever.
> :
> Once upon a midnight dreary: The life and addictions of Edgar Allan Poe by Robert Patterson, MD
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1336506/pdf/cmaj00261-0154.pdf

The article mixes fact and largely discounted hearsay, insinuating that Poe's infrequent use of alcohol, and attempted suicide with laudanum, constitute alcohol and drug addictions.

On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:14:43 PM UTC-5, cocodeso...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:05:31 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 2:54:56 PM UTC-5, cocodeso...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 2:35:15 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > I'm sure George Dance hasn't run away, Pendragon, but, again, I'll let George speak for himself.
> > > >
> > > > As for Edgar Allan Poe, it seems to be a historical fact that he was an alcoholic, was suspected of being a drug addict who married his thirteen year old cousin.
> > > >
> > > > Are you trying to deny these historical facts about Edgar Allan Poe, Pendragon?
> > > It is a *historical fact* (established and supported by all of Poe's modern biographers) that he was none of the above.
> > >
> > > It is a *historical fact* that Griswold's lies have long been discredited (along with his own reputation).
> > >
> > > The *historical facts* are as follows:
> > > 1) Poe had an extremely tolerance for alcohol and sought to avoid it at all costs. He drank when social situations demanded it, and then only in small quantities. Later in life he took a temperance oath as a means of refusing drinks in such situations.
> > > 2) Poe did not use drugs.
> > > 3) Poe's marriage was built out of filial love (becoming romantic) rather than from a sexual preference for young (albeit, then, "adult," women)..
> > >
> > > The *historical facts* regarding Will Donkey are as follows:
> > > 1) Donkey began drinking (on a daily or practically daily) basis at the age of 13.
> > > 2) Donkey began regularly using drugs at the age of 13.
> > > 3) Donkey began having sex with girls aged 13 ("or even younger") at the age of 13.
> > > 4) Donkey's 17-year old bride eventually ran away and faked her own death in an attempt to rid herself of the Donkey forever.
> > :
> > Once upon a midnight dreary: The life and addictions of Edgar Allan Poe by Robert Patterson, MD
> > https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1336506/pdf/cmaj00261-0154..pdf
> The article mixes fact and largely discounted hearsay, insinuating that Poe's infrequent use of alcohol, and attempted suicide with laudanum, constitute alcohol and drug addictions.

You really want to go there with me? The article specifically says he “abused” both alcohol and opium. He did.

On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 2:50:14 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Family Guy wrote:
>
> > On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 9:10:15 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> Family Guy wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 9:05:12 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> >> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 4:25:13 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> >> >> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 3:42:00 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> >> >> >> >> On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 3:37:07 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef....@gmail.com wrote:
> >> >> >> >> > On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 3:20:13 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> >> >> >> > > General-Zod wrote:
> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > > Will Dockery wrote:
> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 11:38:48 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef....@gmail.com wrote:
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 9:40:14 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> George J. Dance wrote:
> >> >> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Father's House
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my father's house, although
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The man died thirteen years ago.
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They said it would be quite all right
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To take a drive to see it now.
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And built the whole thing (from a box),
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toiling after each full day's work.
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I helped, though I was only six.
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Look, here's the back door I would use
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To enter; there I'd leave my things
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To be so many other places.
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Outside, the garden that he grew
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where I would work the summers through,
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While watching my friends run and play
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mysterious games I never knew.
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The one chair I was let to sit?
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which, the corner where boys were put?
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh .... down that hall there is a room
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After the meal, to make no noise,
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To read or play alone, and then
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Face and pyjama bottoms down
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, if I were a millionaire
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd buy my father's house, and there
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its flames would light up all the air.
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > George J. Dance
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx trolling snipped xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> > Where I grew up, a 13-14-year old who was regularly drinking, getting high, and banging other children would have been thought of as trash
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> Yet you seem to have no problem with grown men such as Edgar Allan Poe and Jerry Lee Lewis having sex, and marrying, 13-year-old girls....
> >> >> >> >> > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/05/26-year-old-edgar-allan-poe-married-13-year-old-cousin/
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >>
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> ********* As if his stories weren’t occasionally disturbing enough, it turns out Edgar Allan Poe’s love life was more than a little creepy as well. *****************
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >>
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> ********** Poe met his bride-to-be, Virginia Clemm, when she was 7 years old, and he was 20 *******
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >>
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> “Poe secretly married Virginia . . . on September 22, 1835. He was 26 and she was 13, though she is listed on the marriage certificate as being 21.”
> >> >> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > Poe's lie ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> Jerry Lee Lewis, a very similar tale....
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >>
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> Yet Pendragon appears to accept and condone this, while hypocritically attacking young Doc, himself just a boy at the time, not a grown man of 26 like Poe was....
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >>
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> > Pendragon is a hypocritical troll, what else would you expect?
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > >> That is one thing that never seems to change here.....!
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> >
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > > Poe was in all probability a virgin when he married
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > What's the evidence of that?
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> It's the general supposition made by all of his biographers (and, yes, I have read the majority of his biographies).
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > > and by his own admission did not consummate his marriage during its first year
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> > Poe lied about Virginia's age on the marriage certificate (see above), so he might have lied about not having sex with her.
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> He might have. But he had no discernible reason to do so..
> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> Poe probably lied because his cousin was a 13-year old girl and Poe was a grown man.
> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >>> Like I said, Poe was an old school gentleman. He was raised by a wealthy family, sent to the best schools, and tended to lean toward the prudish side.
> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> Far from a prude, Edgar Allan Poe was well known to be a heavy drinker and drug user, not to mention his obvious desires for 13-year old girls
> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> HTH and HAND.
> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > > ********************************************************
> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > > https://www.bartleby.com/essay/The-Influence-of-Alcohol-and-Drugs-in-F3JAB5FCVJ
> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > > "Edgar Allan Poe is known for his drinking problems and use of drugs. Those habits had a big influence in his life and in his works. Family members, classmates, depression and disasters influenced Poe to use alcohol. The possibilities of Poe been an alcoholic increased…show more content…
> >> >> >> >> > > > 1). Poe went so far that he got into a point that he drank absinthe and brandy which is a really dangerous mixture (Poe, Drugs and Alcohol 27).. Between the many possible causes of Edgar Allan Poe’s death, his problem with alcohol is really considerable as one important reason of his early death (Scharf, Douglas 1). Even though Poe was completely addicted to alcohol, many times, he tried very hard to fight against his alcoholism. Right after his first long drinking experience, during college, he tried to stay away from it (Black, Jamee A. 3). His drinking times were intermittent and he stayed abstain from alcohol for months in some of those periods (Poe, Drugs and Alcohol 8). Promises were made and repeatedly times he said that would never drink again. As one side of Poe tells him that he should stop with alcohol, the other side tells that he should drink to relief his emotional pains and usually he followed this last side once is a lot easier to deal with it (Black, Jamee A. 6). In 1847, Poe’s get extremely hard into drinking, one of the worse times during his whole life, after the death of his young wife Virginia....."
> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > > "....The Role Alcohol Plays in Poe Stories Edgar Allan Poe struggled with drug addiction, and through his experience, he has been able to present his struggles in complicated narratives carefully. Alcohol plays a central role in Edgar Allen Poe stories including The Masque of the Red Death, Hop-Frog, and The Cask of Amontillado. The unique writing styles presented in these stories develop from Poe's notorious alcoholism combined with his dysfunctional and usually unsupportive family. Even at childhood...."
> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > > *************************************************************
> >> >> >> >> > > Strange how Pendragon thinks he can just block all this from his hero worship of Edgar Allan Poe.
> >> >> >> >> > I would prefer for Poe to have been an amoral, decadent, and thoroughly wicked man
> >> >> >> >> Close enough, since Edgar Allan Poe was well known to be a heavy drinker and drug user, not to mention his obvious desires for 13-year old girls....!
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Or is a grown man having sex with a 13 year old child just hunky dory with you, Pen...?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > 1) Virginia was 14 when she and her husband first made love.
> >> >> >> > 2) 14 was not considered a child in 1835.
> >> >> >> > 3) By all accounts the Poes were a happy, loving couple.
> >> >> >> > 4) There is a world of difference between marrying a 14-year old and having sex with a 14-year old.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > I certainly approve of Poe's marriage.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > I do not approve of 13-year old
> >> >> >> 13-year old girls getting banged by grown men such as Jerry Lee Lewis and Edgar Allan Poe?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Then why continue to defend them, Pendragon?
> >> >>
> >> >> > We post-edit
> >> >> I snipped the lies and misrepresentations and set the record straight.
> >> >>
> >> >> HTH and HAND.
> >>
> >> > You post-edit and lie like a little bastard.
> >> No, you just made that up.
> >>
> >>
> > You post edit every response
> No,

Spam-I-Am wrote:

> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:00:33 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 2:51:43 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>> > On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 1:33:53 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>
>> > > Again, you're mistaken, Corey, I like words.
>> > >
>> > > After all, I've been writing poetry for over forty years now.
>
>> > > Shadowville Mythos poetry blog:
>> > > https://shadowville-mythos.blogspot.com/
>
>> > Hateful post-edit noted.
>> You're confused, there's no hate here.
>>
>

> I am not confused. You are both hateful and dishonest.

No, that's simply not true, Corey.

HTH and HAND.

:)

On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:22:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:14:43 PM UTC-5, cocodeso...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:05:31 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 2:54:56 PM UTC-5, cocodeso...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 2:35:15 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > I'm sure George Dance hasn't run away, Pendragon, but, again, I'll let George speak for himself.
> > > > >
> > > > > As for Edgar Allan Poe, it seems to be a historical fact that he was an alcoholic, was suspected of being a drug addict who married his thirteen year old cousin.
> > > > >
> > > > > Are you trying to deny these historical facts about Edgar Allan Poe, Pendragon?
> > > > It is a *historical fact* (established and supported by all of Poe's modern biographers) that he was none of the above.
> > > >
> > > > It is a *historical fact* that Griswold's lies have long been discredited (along with his own reputation).
> > > >
> > > > The *historical facts* are as follows:
> > > > 1) Poe had an extremely tolerance for alcohol and sought to avoid it at all costs. He drank when social situations demanded it, and then only in small quantities. Later in life he took a temperance oath as a means of refusing drinks in such situations.
> > > > 2) Poe did not use drugs.
> > > > 3) Poe's marriage was built out of filial love (becoming romantic) rather than from a sexual preference for young (albeit, then, "adult," women).
> > > >
> > > > The *historical facts* regarding Will Donkey are as follows:
> > > > 1) Donkey began drinking (on a daily or practically daily) basis at the age of 13.
> > > > 2) Donkey began regularly using drugs at the age of 13.
> > > > 3) Donkey began having sex with girls aged 13 ("or even younger") at the age of 13.
> > > > 4) Donkey's 17-year old bride eventually ran away and faked her own death in an attempt to rid herself of the Donkey forever.
> > > :
> > > Once upon a midnight dreary: The life and addictions of Edgar Allan Poe by Robert Patterson, MD
> > > https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1336506/pdf/cmaj00261-0154.pdf
> > The article mixes fact and largely discounted hearsay, insinuating that Poe's infrequent use of alcohol, and attempted suicide with laudanum, constitute alcohol and drug addictions.
> You really want to go there with me? The article specifically says he “abused” both alcohol and opium. He did.

Sure, I'll go there with you.

The article is partially based on hearsay.

Poe drank. He was not, however, an alcoholic. He drank in his youth, but gave it up when it affected his performance as an editor. He drank during periods of his wife's illness. Who wouldn't have under such circumstances? And he drank, when social situations forced him to.

He later took the Temperance oath which helped him to avoid the social necessity of drink.

He did not use opium (or opiates), apart from an attempt to commit suicide. He may have use opium-derived medications (as such were common in his day), but that has never been established.

The cause of his death remains unknown, and was due to the result of some form of foul play: he was found unconscious wearing an ill-fitting, soiled suit which did not belong to him. If a modern day celebrity were found in such a condition, a murder investigation would ensue.

The article cites stories from such suspicious sources as an unidentified classmate. Aftrer Poe's death, there were many people who wrote about their experiences with him, and nearly all of them have been discounted as patently false.

On 2022-11-30 2:53 p.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 2:13:53 PM UTC-5,
george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> On 2022-11-30 1:57 p.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 12:34:49 PM UTC-5,
george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>>>> On 2022-11-29 10:00 a.m., ME wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, 28 November 2022 at 13:10:53 UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca
wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022-11-26 4:01 p.m., Zod wrote:
>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:46:45 PM UTC-5,
george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2022-11-26 3:32 p.m., NancyGene wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Where is Mount Father? Is that in Canada?
>>>>>>>> Thanks for the good catch, dear. I can't delete this, but I'll
repost.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's pretty funny coming from NancyGene, who thinks London,
home of John Dunne and Robert F. Stillings, is in Ireland... ha ha.
>>>>>> What was even funnier, for me, was that just after announding
the Yeats
>>>>>> exhibit in London, Ireland, Prof. NG suddenly took a month-long
>>>>>> "sabbatical" from the group. I spent a couple of amusing hours
imagining
>>>>>> them roaming around Ireland looking for London. (Of course, not
being a
>>>>>> troll, I never posted about it.)
>>>>>
>>>>> dance, what you’ve shared in your poem could be described as
child sexual abuse more than punishment.
>>>>>
>>>> It's a poem about someone traumatized by his memories, Steve; he
>>>> probably does think of them as "abuse more than punishment," but
that's
>>>> deliberately not said; it's a poem, and the rule is show, don't tell.
>>>
>>> You'll note that ME said "sexual abuse," whereas your explanation
ignores the sexual element.
>>>
>>> The image of a boy lying on his stomach with his pajama bottoms
pulled down, waiting for his father to "punish" him is evocative of both
BDSM and kiddie porn. I find it difficult to believe that the sexual
connotations did not present themselves to you at the time of the poem's
composition, and must therefore conclude that they were intentional.
>>>
>>> However, these connotations are also left intentionally vague (that
is, up to the reader's interpretation). While this is a good approach to
take with a poem, your admission that it was "largely based on" your
personal experiences, can only leave readers wondering (assuming) that
your father buggered you on a regular basis.
>>>
>>>>> It just sounds a little sick to ME that a boy has to wait in bed,
with his pants down for his father to ‘visit’ him in his bed at night.
>>>>> Maybe this poem should have been unpublished.
>>>> Why? It's obviously a successful poem: People react strongly to
it, and
>>>> they remember it.
>>>
>>> Poetically, it's doggerel.
>>> And doggerel, which is best suited to light verse, does not serve
its serious topic well.
>>>
>> It's certainly not what you'd write. Let's leave it at that.
>
> I have written a partially autobiographical story about a physically
abusive father, but I chose to do so in short story form -- which a feel
is much better suited to the topic.
>
>>> People remember it because the image of a bare-assed little boy
lying in bed while he waits for his father to come in to whip him with a
belt is memorable because it's disturbing.

Actually, Michael, that's why you remember it.

>> Great. Have you ever written a poem that "people remember," for an image
>> or for anything else?
>
> I've written many poems that others have told me they liked.
However, apart from my immediate family members, I cannot say with
certainty that any of those people still remember the poems in question.
>

Enough of that. The point is that you remember my poem for the one image
(the bare-bottomed boy) that attracted you, and started you thinking
about child molesting and incest (none of which is anywhere to be found
in the poem).

>>> Chuck Lysaght's "Perfect Angel" poem is memorable for a simi> lar
reason. In neither case, is this a good thing.
>>>
>> Chuck's shock poem led to a his online trolls pretending his poem was
>> "autobiographical" - I guess that's an occupational hazard of writing on
>> a group full of trolls.
>
> Chuck's "shock poem" wasn't a poem by any stretch of the imagination.
It was short prose, reminiscent in terms of both subject and quality,
to a piece of short porn fiction from one of the more disreputable
magazines.
>
> It did not appear to be satirizing the pornographic tales of this
sort, but came across as an imitative piece of the porn fiction that
inspired it.
>
> It did not shock this reader, and I doubt that it shocked many others.
>
> It ended with a typical "twist" ending, wherein the babysitter told
the unsuspecting parents that their daughter had been a "perfect angel"
(with a conspiratorial "wink" thrown to the readers).
>
> I cannot see how the story was anything other than a piece of
degenerate porn, written by a degenerate who entertains pedophilic
fantasies.

Nice deflection. But your review only indicates that it's a forgettable
poem. Which brings us back to my point:

"Perfect Angel" is "memorable" only because PJ Ross decided to call it
autobiographical, so he could call Chuck a child molester. Just as, in
imitation of him, you decided to call this poem of mine autobiographical
so that you could call my father a child molester. Monkey see, monkey do.

On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:55:14 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Spam-I-Am wrote:
>
> > On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:00:33 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 2:51:43 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >> > On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 1:33:53 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >
> >> > > Again, you're mistaken, Corey, I like words.
> >> > >
> >> > > After all, I've been writing poetry for over forty years now.
> >
> >> > > Shadowville Mythos poetry blog:
> >> > > https://shadowville-mythos.blogspot.com/
> >
> >> > Hateful post-edit noted.
> >> You're confused, there's no hate here.
> >>
> >
>
> > I am not confused. You are both hateful and dishonest.
> No, that's simply not true, Corey.
>
> HTH and HAND.
>
> :)

It’s obvious.

Coco DeSockmonkey wrote:

> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 2:35:15 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>
>> I'm sure George Dance hasn't run away, Pendragon, but, again, I'll let George speak for himself.
>>
>> As for Edgar Allan Poe, it seems to be a historical fact that he was an alcoholic, was suspected of being a drug addict who married his thirteen year old cousin.
>>
>> Are you trying to deny these historical facts about Edgar Allan Poe, Pendragon?

> It is a *historical fact* (established and supported by all of Poe's modern biographers) that he was none of the above.

Every biography I have seen says that Edgar Allan Poe married his thirteen year old cousin....

Most state that he did have a drinking problem, though it seems his drug use has limited evidence...

There ya go, Pen...

On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:56:43 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-11-30 2:53 p.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 2:13:53 PM UTC-5,
> george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> On 2022-11-30 1:57 p.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 12:34:49 PM UTC-5,
> george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >>>> On 2022-11-29 10:00 a.m., ME wrote:
> >>>>> On Monday, 28 November 2022 at 13:10:53 UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca
> wrote:
> >>>>>> On 2022-11-26 4:01 p.m., Zod wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:46:45 PM UTC-5,
> george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 2022-11-26 3:32 p.m., NancyGene wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Where is Mount Father? Is that in Canada?
> >>>>>>>> Thanks for the good catch, dear. I can't delete this, but I'll
> repost.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> That's pretty funny coming from NancyGene, who thinks London,
> home of John Dunne and Robert F. Stillings, is in Ireland... ha ha.
> >>>>>> What was even funnier, for me, was that just after announding
> the Yeats
> >>>>>> exhibit in London, Ireland, Prof. NG suddenly took a month-long
> >>>>>> "sabbatical" from the group. I spent a couple of amusing hours
> imagining
> >>>>>> them roaming around Ireland looking for London. (Of course, not
> being a
> >>>>>> troll, I never posted about it.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> dance, what you’ve shared in your poem could be described as
> child sexual abuse more than punishment.
> >>>>>
> >>>> It's a poem about someone traumatized by his memories, Steve; he
> >>>> probably does think of them as "abuse more than punishment," but
> that's
> >>>> deliberately not said; it's a poem, and the rule is show, don't tell..
> >>>
> >>> You'll note that ME said "sexual abuse," whereas your explanation
> ignores the sexual element.
> >>>
> >>> The image of a boy lying on his stomach with his pajama bottoms
> pulled down, waiting for his father to "punish" him is evocative of both
> BDSM and kiddie porn. I find it difficult to believe that the sexual
> connotations did not present themselves to you at the time of the poem's
> composition, and must therefore conclude that they were intentional.
> >>>
> >>> However, these connotations are also left intentionally vague (that
> is, up to the reader's interpretation). While this is a good approach to
> take with a poem, your admission that it was "largely based on" your
> personal experiences, can only leave readers wondering (assuming) that
> your father buggered you on a regular basis.
> >>>
> >>>>> It just sounds a little sick to ME that a boy has to wait in bed,
> with his pants down for his father to ‘visit’ him in his bed at night.
> >>>>> Maybe this poem should have been unpublished.
> >>>> Why? It's obviously a successful poem: People react strongly to
> it, and
> >>>> they remember it.
> >>>
> >>> Poetically, it's doggerel.
> >>> And doggerel, which is best suited to light verse, does not serve
> its serious topic well.
> >>>
> >> It's certainly not what you'd write. Let's leave it at that.
> >
> > I have written a partially autobiographical story about a physically
> abusive father, but I chose to do so in short story form -- which a feel
> is much better suited to the topic.
> >
> >>> People remember it because the image of a bare-assed little boy
> lying in bed while he waits for his father to come in to whip him with a
> belt is memorable because it's disturbing.
>
> Actually, Michael, that's why you remember it.
>
> >> Great. Have you ever written a poem that "people remember," for an image
> >> or for anything else?
> >
> > I've written many poems that others have told me they liked.
> However, apart from my immediate family members, I cannot say with
> certainty that any of those people still remember the poems in question.
> >
>
> Enough of that. The point is that you remember my poem for the one image
> (the bare-bottomed boy) that attracted you, and started you thinking
> about child molesting and incest (none of which is anywhere to be found
> in the poem).
>
> >>> Chuck Lysaght's "Perfect Angel" poem is memorable for a simi> lar
> reason. In neither case, is this a good thing.
> >>>
> >> Chuck's shock poem led to a his online trolls pretending his poem was
> >> "autobiographical" - I guess that's an occupational hazard of writing on
> >> a group full of trolls.
> >
> > Chuck's "shock poem" wasn't a poem by any stretch of the imagination.
> It was short prose, reminiscent in terms of both subject and quality,
> to a piece of short porn fiction from one of the more disreputable
> magazines.
> >
> > It did not appear to be satirizing the pornographic tales of this
> sort, but came across as an imitative piece of the porn fiction that
> inspired it.
> >
> > It did not shock this reader, and I doubt that it shocked many others.
> >
> > It ended with a typical "twist" ending, wherein the babysitter told
> the unsuspecting parents that their daughter had been a "perfect angel"
> (with a conspiratorial "wink" thrown to the readers).
> >
> > I cannot see how the story was anything other than a piece of
> degenerate porn, written by a degenerate who entertains pedophilic
> fantasies.
>
> Nice deflection. But your review only indicates that it's a forgettable
> poem. Which brings us back to my point:
>
> "Perfect Angel" is "memorable" only because PJ Ross decided to call it
> autobiographical, so he could call Chuck a child molester. Just as, in
> imitation of him, you decided to call this poem of mine autobiographical
> so that you could call my father a child molester. Monkey see, monkey do.

The father in your poem is a child molester. The extent to which he resembles your father is your business.

On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:59:00 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:55:14 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >
> > > On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:00:33 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 2:51:43 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > >> > On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 1:33:53 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >
> > >> > > Again, you're mistaken, Corey, I like words.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > After all, I've been writing poetry for over forty years now.
> > >
> > >> > > Shadowville Mythos poetry blog:
> > >> > > https://shadowville-mythos.blogspot.com/
> > >
> > >> > Hateful post-edit noted.
> > >> You're confused, there's no hate here.
> > >>
> > >
> >
> > > I am not confused. You are both hateful and dishonest.
> > No, that's simply not true, Corey.
> >
> > HTH and HAND.
> >
> > :)
> It’s obvious.

You are wrong, Corey.... I have known Doc for many years and have rarely seen any hate in him....

He is a beloved poet of our area....

On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:56:43 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-11-30 2:53 p.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >>>>> On Monday, 28 November 2022 at 13:10:53 UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca
> wrote:
> >>>>>> On 2022-11-26 4:01 p.m., Zod wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:46:45 PM UTC-5,
> george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 2022-11-26 3:32 p.m., NancyGene wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>> Where is Mount Father? Is that in Canada?
> >>>>>>>> Thanks for the good catch, dear. I can't delete this, but I'll
> repost.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> That's pretty funny coming from NancyGene, who thinks London,
> home of John Dunne and Robert F. Stillings, is in Ireland... ha ha.
> >>>>>> What was even funnier, for me, was that just after announding
> the Yeats
> >>>>>> exhibit in London, Ireland, Prof. NG suddenly took a month-long
> >>>>>> "sabbatical" from the group. I spent a couple of amusing hours
> imagining
> >>>>>> them roaming around Ireland looking for London. (Of course, not
> being a
> >>>>>> troll, I never posted about it.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> dance, what you’ve shared in your poem could be described as
> child sexual abuse more than punishment.
> >>>>>
> >>>> It's a poem about someone traumatized by his memories, Steve; he
> >>>> probably does think of them as "abuse more than punishment," but
> that's
> >>>> deliberately not said; it's a poem, and the rule is show, don't tell..
> >>>
> >>> You'll note that ME said "sexual abuse," whereas your explanation
> ignores the sexual element.
> >>>
> >>> The image of a boy lying on his stomach with his pajama bottoms
> pulled down, waiting for his father to "punish" him is evocative of both
> BDSM and kiddie porn. I find it difficult to believe that the sexual
> connotations did not present themselves to you at the time of the poem's
> composition, and must therefore conclude that they were intentional.
> >>>
> >>> However, these connotations are also left intentionally vague (that
> is, up to the reader's interpretation). While this is a good approach to
> take with a poem, your admission that it was "largely based on" your
> personal experiences, can only leave readers wondering (assuming) that
> your father buggered you on a regular basis.
> >>>
> >>>>> It just sounds a little sick to ME that a boy has to wait in bed,
> with his pants down for his father to ‘visit’ him in his bed at night.
> >>>>> Maybe this poem should have been unpublished.
> >>>> Why? It's obviously a successful poem: People react strongly to
> it, and
> >>>> they remember it.
> >>>
> >>> Poetically, it's doggerel.
> >>> And doggerel, which is best suited to light verse, does not serve
> its serious topic well.
> >>>
> >> It's certainly not what you'd write. Let's leave it at that.
> >
> > I have written a partially autobiographical story about a physically
> abusive father, but I chose to do so in short story form -- which a feel
> is much better suited to the topic.
> >
> >>> People remember it because the image of a bare-assed little boy
> lying in bed while he waits for his father to come in to whip him with a
> belt is memorable because it's disturbing.
>
> Actually, Michael, that's why you remember it.
>
> >> Great. Have you ever written a poem that "people remember," for an image
> >> or for anything else?
> >
> > I've written many poems that others have told me they liked.
> However, apart from my immediate family members, I cannot say with
> certainty that any of those people still remember the poems in question.
> >
>
> Enough of that. The point is that you remember my poem for the one image
> (the bare-bottomed boy) that attracted you, and started you thinking
> about child molesting and incest (none of which is anywhere to be found
> in the poem).
>
> >>> Chuck Lysaght's "Perfect Angel" poem is memorable for a simi> lar
> reason. In neither case, is this a good thing.
> >>>
> >> Chuck's shock poem led to a his online trolls pretending his poem was
> >> "autobiographical" - I guess that's an occupational hazard of writing on
> >> a group full of trolls.
> >
> > Chuck's "shock poem" wasn't a poem by any stretch of the imagination.
> It was short prose, reminiscent in terms of both subject and quality,
> to a piece of short porn fiction from one of the more disreputable
> magazines.
> >
> > It did not appear to be satirizing the pornographic tales of this
> sort, but came across as an imitative piece of the porn fiction that
> inspired it.
> >
> > It did not shock this reader, and I doubt that it shocked many others.
> >
> > It ended with a typical "twist" ending, wherein the babysitter told
> the unsuspecting parents that their daughter had been a "perfect angel"
> (with a conspiratorial "wink" thrown to the readers).
> >
> > I cannot see how the story was anything other than a piece of
> degenerate porn, written by a degenerate who entertains pedophilic
> fantasies.
>
> Nice deflection. But your review only indicates that it's a forgettable
> poem. Which brings us back to my point:
>
> "Perfect Angel" is "memorable" only because PJ Ross decided to call it
> autobiographical, so he could call Chuck a child molester. Just as, in
> imitation of him, you decided to call this poem of mine autobiographical
> so that you could call my father a child molester. Monkey see, monkey do.

Quite well put, and nailed, GD....!!

On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 4:06:21 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:59:00 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:55:14 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:00:33 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 2:51:43 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > >> > On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 1:33:53 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> > > Again, you're mistaken, Corey, I like words.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > After all, I've been writing poetry for over forty years now.
> > > >
> > > >> > > Shadowville Mythos poetry blog:
> > > >> > > https://shadowville-mythos.blogspot.com/
> > > >
> > > >> > Hateful post-edit noted.
> > > >> You're confused, there's no hate here.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > > > I am not confused. You are both hateful and dishonest.
> > > No, that's simply not true, Corey.
> > >
> > > HTH and HAND.
> > >
> > > :)
> > It’s obvious.
> You are wrong, Corey.... I have known Doc for many years and have rarely seen any hate in him....
>
> He is a beloved poet of our area....

He’s a reviled and hateful character on Usenet. It’s been obvious here for many years.

On 2022-12-02 11:07 p.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 10:33:52 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> On 2022-12-01 10:08 p.m., Family Guy wrote:
>>> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:57:52 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:54:18 AM UTC-5, Family Guy wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:09:21 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wow. No wonder you're so screwed up.
>>>> "Try not to confuse the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem." -Karla Rogers
>>>>
>>> Donkey:
>>> He has stated this poem is "autobiographical."
>>
>> No, liar, Michael Monkey stated it was "autobiographical."
>
> No, liar. I said that it was "largely
> autobiographical."

Actually, liar, you did call it "autobiographical" -- and when I
challenged that you added "largely" to pretend you were quoting me. But
whatever; when you call it "largely autobiographical," you're still
calling it "autobiographical".

I've told you that it's not autobiographical, and explained why. I think
the only reason you keep using the term is so idiots like Dink will get
confused about who said what (like he just did).

> You pretended to take offense over that on the grounds that you'd said that it was "largely based on personal experience."

No, liar, I did not. I do take some offense, though, in your continually
using that post-edited "quote" to misrepresent what I actually said 15
years ago. What I said -- not about the "poem" or about the events of
the poem, but about the main character -- was: ""The boy is a composite;
largely based on my own experience, but with some details other men have
told me about their childhoods."
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/KJsijQ-H4ec/m/UdvX5EdCCwAJ?hl=en

> When I asked you to explain the difference between the two, you conveniently dropped the all important qualifier, "largely," and prattled on about "autobiography" vs "creative fiction."

More likely I told you a poem was "imaginative literature," but it comes
to the same thing: it was not an autobiography, and was not meant to be.

> Largely autobiographical means that it is mostly based on your personal experiences.
>

No, "Autobiographical" does not mean "based on personal experiences" --
it means giving an accurate account of events. And "largely
autobiougraphical" ("giving an largely accurate account ...") just
sounds like hedging.

>> Do you really think that, if you repeat his lies, he'll let you on the
>> team? It won't work, any more than it worked to get you onto PJ Ross's
>> team. It's time to facts: no one wants you.
>
> If I had a team, I would certainly want Alex to be on it.
>

You're welcome to him. You're down a player with the Chimp gone, and
Dink will substitute very well for him.

> As Karen noted, his posts are often very creative... and LOL funny.
>

Funnier than Nasty Gene or the Chimp ever managed, I have to admit -- so
you may have come out ahead on the deal.

On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:56:43 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-11-30 2:53 p.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 2:13:53 PM UTC-5,
> george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> On 2022-11-30 1:57 p.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 12:34:49 PM UTC-5,
> george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >>>> On 2022-11-29 10:00 a.m., ME wrote:
> >>>>> On Monday, 28 November 2022 at 13:10:53 UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca
> wrote:
> >>>>>> On 2022-11-26 4:01 p.m., Zod wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:46:45 PM UTC-5,
> george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 2022-11-26 3:32 p.m., NancyGene wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Where is Mount Father? Is that in Canada?
> >>>>>>>> Thanks for the good catch, dear. I can't delete this, but I'll
> repost.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> That's pretty funny coming from NancyGene, who thinks London,
> home of John Dunne and Robert F. Stillings, is in Ireland... ha ha.
> >>>>>> What was even funnier, for me, was that just after announding
> the Yeats
> >>>>>> exhibit in London, Ireland, Prof. NG suddenly took a month-long
> >>>>>> "sabbatical" from the group. I spent a couple of amusing hours
> imagining
> >>>>>> them roaming around Ireland looking for London. (Of course, not
> being a
> >>>>>> troll, I never posted about it.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> dance, what you’ve shared in your poem could be described as
> child sexual abuse more than punishment.
> >>>>>
> >>>> It's a poem about someone traumatized by his memories, Steve; he
> >>>> probably does think of them as "abuse more than punishment," but
> that's
> >>>> deliberately not said; it's a poem, and the rule is show, don't tell..
> >>>
> >>> You'll note that ME said "sexual abuse," whereas your explanation
> ignores the sexual element.
> >>>
> >>> The image of a boy lying on his stomach with his pajama bottoms
> pulled down, waiting for his father to "punish" him is evocative of both
> BDSM and kiddie porn. I find it difficult to believe that the sexual
> connotations did not present themselves to you at the time of the poem's
> composition, and must therefore conclude that they were intentional.
> >>>
> >>> However, these connotations are also left intentionally vague (that
> is, up to the reader's interpretation). While this is a good approach to
> take with a poem, your admission that it was "largely based on" your
> personal experiences, can only leave readers wondering (assuming) that
> your father buggered you on a regular basis.
> >>>
> >>>>> It just sounds a little sick to ME that a boy has to wait in bed,
> with his pants down for his father to ‘visit’ him in his bed at night.
> >>>>> Maybe this poem should have been unpublished.
> >>>> Why? It's obviously a successful poem: People react strongly to
> it, and
> >>>> they remember it.
> >>>
> >>> Poetically, it's doggerel.
> >>> And doggerel, which is best suited to light verse, does not serve
> its serious topic well.
> >>>
> >> It's certainly not what you'd write. Let's leave it at that.
> >
> > I have written a partially autobiographical story about a physically
> abusive father, but I chose to do so in short story form -- which a feel
> is much better suited to the topic.
> >
> >>> People remember it because the image of a bare-assed little boy
> lying in bed while he waits for his father to come in to whip him with a
> belt is memorable because it's disturbing.
>
> Actually, Michael, that's why you remember it.
>
> >> Great. Have you ever written a poem that "people remember," for an image
> >> or for anything else?
> >
> > I've written many poems that others have told me they liked.
> However, apart from my immediate family members, I cannot say with
> certainty that any of those people still remember the poems in question.
> >
>
> Enough of that. The point is that you remember my poem for the one image
> (the bare-bottomed boy) that attracted you, and started you thinking
> about child molesting and incest (none of which is anywhere to be found
> in the poem).

You are the guy who wrote about the nudity, and claimed it to be based on something real.

>
> >>> Chuck Lysaght's "Perfect Angel" poem is memorable for a simi> lar
> reason. In neither case, is this a good thing.
> >>>
> >> Chuck's shock poem led to a his online trolls pretending his poem was
> >> "autobiographical" - I guess that's an occupational hazard of writing on
> >> a group full of trolls.
> >
> > Chuck's "shock poem" wasn't a poem by any stretch of the imagination.
> It was short prose, reminiscent in terms of both subject and quality,
> to a piece of short porn fiction from one of the more disreputable
> magazines.

Got a ouija board? We can ask him...

> >
> > It did not appear to be satirizing the pornographic tales of this
> sort, but came across as an imitative piece of the porn fiction that
> inspired it.
> >
> > It did not shock this reader, and I doubt that it shocked many others.
> >
> > It ended with a typical "twist" ending, wherein the babysitter told
> the unsuspecting parents that their daughter had been a "perfect angel"
> (with a conspiratorial "wink" thrown to the readers).
> >
> > I cannot see how the story was anything other than a piece of
> degenerate porn, written by a degenerate who entertains pedophilic
> fantasies.
>
> Nice deflection. But your review only indicates that it's a forgettable
> poem. Which brings us back to my point:
>
> "Perfect Angel" is "memorable" only because PJ Ross decided to call it
> autobiographical, so he could call Chuck a child molester. Just as, in
> imitation of him, you decided to call this poem of mine autobiographical
> so that you could call my father a child molester. Monkey see, monkey do.

On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 4:29:46 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:

> >
> > If I had a team, I would certainly want Alex to be on it.
> >
>
> You're welcome to him. You're down a player with the Chimp gone, and
> Dink will substitute very well for him.

I am flattered you think so highly of me, George.
Shame that y our opinion matters about as much as Dockery's.

>
> > As Karen noted, his posts are often very creative... and LOL funny.
> >
>
> Funnier than Nasty Gene or the Chimp ever managed, I have to admit -- so
> you may have come out ahead on the deal.

On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 4:06:21 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:59:00 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:55:14 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:00:33 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 2:51:43 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > >> > On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 1:33:53 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> > > Again, you're mistaken, Corey, I like words.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > After all, I've been writing poetry for over forty years now.
> > > >
> > > >> > > Shadowville Mythos poetry blog:
> > > >> > > https://shadowville-mythos.blogspot.com/
> > > >
> > > >> > Hateful post-edit noted.
> > > >> You're confused, there's no hate here.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > > > I am not confused. You are both hateful and dishonest.
> > > No, that's simply not true, Corey.
> > >
> > > HTH and HAND.
> > >
> > > :)
> > It’s obvious.
> You are wrong, Corey.... I have known Doc for many years and have rarely seen any hate in him....
>
> He is a beloved poet of our area....

I don't know where Corey comes up with such bullshit, but it isn't new for him.

🙂

On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 4:29:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 4:06:21 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:59:00 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:55:14 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:00:33 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 2:51:43 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > >> > On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 1:33:53 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> > > Again, you're mistaken, Corey, I like words.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > After all, I've been writing poetry for over forty years now..
> > > > >
> > > > >> > > Shadowville Mythos poetry blog:
> > > > >> > > https://shadowville-mythos.blogspot.com/
> > > > >
> > > > >> > Hateful post-edit noted.
> > > > >> You're confused, there's no hate here.
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I am not confused. You are both hateful and dishonest.
> > > > No, that's simply not true, Corey.
> > > >
> > > > HTH and HAND.
> > > >
> > > > :)
> > > It’s obvious.
> > You are wrong, Corey.... I have known Doc for many years and have rarely seen any hate in him....
> >
> > He is a beloved poet of our area....
> He’s a reviled and hateful character on Usenet. It’s been obvious here for many years.

That's the way you feel about me, Corey?

On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 4:29:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 4:06:21 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:59:00 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:55:14 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:00:33 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 2:51:43 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > >> > On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 1:33:53 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> > > Again, you're mistaken, Corey, I like words.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > After all, I've been writing poetry for over forty years now..
> > > > >
> > > > >> > > Shadowville Mythos poetry blog:
> > > > >> > > https://shadowville-mythos.blogspot.com/
> > > > >
> > > > >> > Hateful post-edit noted.
> > > > >> You're confused, there's no hate here.
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I am not confused. You are both hateful and dishonest.
> > > > No, that's simply not true, Corey.
> > > >
> > > > HTH and HAND.
>
> > > It’s obvious.
> > You are wrong, Corey.... I have known Doc for many years and have rarely seen any hate in him....
> >
> > He is a beloved poet of our area....
> He’s a reviled and hateful character on Usenet. It’s been obvious here for many years.

Trolls hate Doc, and I suppose you're saying you hate him as well...?

As for those here who like Doc, there are many... George D, Rachel, Jordy, Ilya s, Ktell, Antti , and myself to name a few right off the top of my head....

On 2022-11-30 2:59 p.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 2:28:25 PM UTC-5,
george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> On 2022-11-30 1:57 p.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 12:34:49 PM UTC-5,
george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>>>> On 2022-11-29 10:00 a.m., ME wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> dance, what you’ve shared in your poem could be described as
child sexual abuse more than punishment.
>>>>>
>>>> It's a poem about someone traumatized by his memories, Steve; he
>>>> probably does think of them as "abuse more than punishment," but
that's
>>>> deliberately not said; it's a poem, and the rule is show, don't tell.
>>>
>>> You'll note that ME said "sexual abuse," whereas your explanation
ignores the sexual element.
>> The "sexual abuse" came from ME's own imagination. If she finds being
>> beaten with a belt to be sexual, that's fine with me, but it's not
>> something I see any need to waste time on.
>
> I disagree. See below.
>
>>> The image of a boy lying on his stomach with his pajama bottoms
pulled down, waiting for his father to "punish" him is evocative of both
BDSM and kiddie porn. I find it difficult to believe that the sexual
connotations did not present themselves to you at the time of the poem's
composition, and must therefore conclude that they were intentional.
>> No, Michael, I have to admit I'm not into that sort of thing. I found
>> the image sadistic, not erotic.
>
> Good for you. That doesn't stop it from being any less evocative of
BDSM and/or pedo porn.
>

Yes, Michael; it doesn't stop you, when you see the image of a boy's
bare ass, to think about buggering it. I'm not asking you to. All I'm
asking you to do is distinguish between what you read -- that the boy
had his pants down -- and what you imagined -- the boy being buggered.
Though, as I've said, I think you're incapable of doing that, I'll
continue to ask you to do that.

>>> However, these connotations are also left intentionally vague (that
is, up to the reader's interpretation). While this is a good approach to
take with a poem, your admission that it was "largely based on" your
personal experiences, can only leave readers wondering (assuming) that
your father buggered you on a regular basis.

Got it. You read the poem and started thinking it was about buggery.
Then you read my quote how ""The boy is a composite; largely based on my
own experience, but with some details other men have told me about their
childhoods," and decided that the poem was "autobiougraphical". And
finally you decided that the events you'd just imagined yourself -- the
buggery -- must be "autobiographical", too.

>> Only a certain kind of reader, it seems. Most who've read it have
>> understood that the stanza is clearly about waiting to be beaten with a
>> belt. The fact you and Steve the MEatpuppet imagine it's about "buggery"
>> instead says more about you than about the poem.
>
> I see it as a boy waiting to be beaten with a belt -- and possibly
getting buggered in the process.

Of course you do. You read about a child waiting to be beaten with a
belt, you started thinking about buggering the child, and then decided
to blame your unwanted thoughts about on the poem, the writer, and even
his family.

> What does this say about me? That I'm not unaware of the world
around me. That I have done extensive online image searches in order to
create approximately 300 videos (several of which include BDSM images).

You've short-changed yourself. Not only do you like to search for
"images" of men buggering boys; you also like to write and post a lot
about men buggering boys. In fact one could call it your favorite topic
over the years.

What does that say about you? That you're s sick little pervert, and you
try to compensate for that by projecting it on other people around you.
Which is all you've been doing here.

> One doesn't have to like a certain sub-genre of pornography in order
to be aware of it -- any more than one has to like eating peaches in
order to recognize them in the fruit and vegetable aisle at the local
grocery store.

Bad analogy. Seeing a bare ass and thinking about buggering it (as
you're doing here) is more like seeing peaches in a store and thinking
about masturbating with it, like Timothée Chalamet:
https://www.eonline.com/ca/news/884736/yes-call-me-by-your-name-s-timothee-chalamet-really-made-love-to-a-peach

On 2022-11-30 2:59 p.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 2:28:25 PM UTC-5,
george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> On 2022-11-30 1:57 p.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 12:34:49 PM UTC-5,
george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>>>> On 2022-11-29 10:00 a.m., ME wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> dance, what you’ve shared in your poem could be described as
child sexual abuse more than punishment.
>>>>>
>>>> It's a poem about someone traumatized by his memories, Steve; he
>>>> probably does think of them as "abuse more than punishment," but
that's
>>>> deliberately not said; it's a poem, and the rule is show, don't tell.
>>>
>>> You'll note that ME said "sexual abuse," whereas your explanation
ignores the sexual element.
>> The "sexual abuse" came from ME's own imagination. If she finds being
>> beaten with a belt to be sexual, that's fine with me, but it's not
>> something I see any need to waste time on.
>
> I disagree. See below.
>
>>> The image of a boy lying on his stomach with his pajama bottoms
pulled down, waiting for his father to "punish" him is evocative of both
BDSM and kiddie porn. I find it difficult to believe that the sexual
connotations did not present themselves to you at the time of the poem's
composition, and must therefore conclude that they were intentional.
>> No, Michael, I have to admit I'm not into that sort of thing. I found
>> the image sadistic, not erotic.
>
> Good for you. That doesn't stop it from being any less evocative of
BDSM and/or pedo porn.
>

Yes, Michael; it doesn't stop you, when you see the image of a boy's
bare ass, to think about buggering it. I'm not asking you to. All I'm
asking you to do is distinguish between what you read -- that the boy
had his pants down -- and what you imagined -- the boy being buggered.
Though, as I've said, I think you're incapable of doing that, I'll
continue to ask you to do that.

>>> However, these connotations are also left intentionally vague (that
is, up to the reader's interpretation). While this is a good approach to
take with a poem, your admission that it was "largely based on" your
personal experiences, can only leave readers wondering (assuming) that
your father buggered you on a regular basis.

Got it. You read the poem and started thinking it was about buggery.
Then you read my quote how ""The boy is a composite; largely based on my
own experience, but with some details other men have told me about their
childhoods," and decided that the poem was "autobiougraphical". And
finally you decided that the events you'd just imagined yourself -- the
buggery -- must be "autobiographical", too.

>> Only a certain kind of reader, it seems. Most who've read it have
>> understood that the stanza is clearly about waiting to be beaten with a
>> belt. The fact you and Steve the MEatpuppet imagine it's about "buggery"
>> instead says more about you than about the poem.
>
> I see it as a boy waiting to be beaten with a belt -- and possibly
getting buggered in the process.

Of course you do. You read about a child waiting to be beaten with a
belt, you started thinking about buggering the child, and then decided
to blame your unwanted thoughts about on the poem, the writer, and even
his family.

> What does this say about me? That I'm not unaware of the world
around me. That I have done extensive online image searches in order to
create approximately 300 videos (several of which include BDSM images).

You've short-changed yourself. Not only do you like to search for
"images" of men buggering boys; you also like to write and post a lot
about men buggering boys. In fact one could call it your favorite topic
over the years.

What does that say about you? That you're s sick little pervert, and you
try to compensate for that by projecting it on other people around you.
Which is all you've been doing here.

> One doesn't have to like a certain sub-genre of pornography in order
to be aware of it -- any more than one has to like eating peaches in
order to recognize them in the fruit and vegetable aisle at the local
grocery store.

Bad analogy. Seeing a bare ass and thinking about buggering it (as
you're doing here) is more like seeing peaches in a store and thinking
about masturbating with it, like Timothée Chalamet:
https://www.eonline.com/ca/news/884736/yes-call-me-by-your-name-s-timothee-chalamet-really-made-love-to-a-peach