On 4/27/2024 3:42 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 17:13:22 -0400, Alexandria Ocrazyo-Vortex
> <aov@bartenders.guv> wrote:
>
>> Electric car review.
>>
>> Watch This Before You Even Think About Buying an Electric Car, DIY and
>> car review Scotty Kilmer. New York Just Banned Electric Vehicles (and
>> Your State is Next). Worst electric cars to buy. Buying a new electric
>> car. Should I buy an electric car. How much does it cost to run an
>> electric car. Why not to buy a electric car. The truth about owning an
>> electric car. Car advice.
>>
>> DIY car repair with Scotty Kilmer, an auto mechanic for the last 56 years.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znGgS_0AHWk
>>
>>
>> Democrats are dumber than a box of rocks.
> Scotty Kilmer is dummer than TWO boxes of rocks. (and I've been a
> mechanic as long as he has - even if I haven't been making my living
> as one for the last - - - )

Scotty isn't either. He makes his living loudly raving about crap.

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 28 Apr 2024 10:15:17 -0700, Bob F
<bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 4/27/2024 4:13 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>> On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 18:47:16 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 17:46:25 -0400, Ed P <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/27/2024 5:13 PM, Alexandria Ocrazyo-Vortex wrote:
>>>>> Electric car review.
>>>>>
>>>>> Watch This Before You Even Think About Buying an Electric Car, DIY and
>>>>> car review Scotty Kilmer. New York Just Banned Electric Vehicles (and
>>>>> Your State is Next). Worst electric cars to buy. Buying a new electric
>>>>> car. Should I buy an electric car. How much does it cost to run an
>>>>> electric car. Why not to buy a electric car. The truth about owning an
>>>>> electric car. Car advice.
>>>>>
>>>>> DIY car repair with Scotty Kilmer, an auto mechanic for the last 56 years.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znGgS_0AHWk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Democrats are dumber than a box of rocks.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, Kilmer is a screaming idiot and some of his "facts" are not
>>>> correct.
>>>>
>>>> EVs do have a way to go but will get there.
>>>
>>> I have "real" experience with EVs that goes back to the seventies -
>>> in many ways they have not made a LOT of progress. Back in '78 my 4
>>> passenger EV went 50 miles on a charge at 30MPH and 30 at 50 - and a
>>> recharge took 8 hours and cost a quarter.
>>> Controllers have gotten MUCH better - and so has battery life.
>>> I "built" my own EV - a conversion - to my own design.
>>>
>>
>> The Jeep Grand Cherokee plug-in hybrid was reviewed
>> in Friday's newspaper .. in all-electric mode you can
>> expect to travel .. < insert fanfare here > ... 42 km.
>> that's 25 miles in the USA. Whoop-dee-doo.
>> I'm guessing that anyone who finds this "range" adequate
>> is someone who doesn't need or want a Cherokee -
>> and anyone buying this thing - _does_ need/want a Cherokee
>> but is buying this thing for feel-good reasons only.
>> John T.
>
>
>Ummmm? It's a HYBRID. That means it can go hundreds of miles if you need
>it to. And it can use no gas at all for a trip to the grocery store.

Yes, he should be looking at specs of all electric if s/he wants to talk
about range. They needed space for the gas engine so the batteries in
a hybrid are not so big.

On 4/28/24 07:37, RJH wrote:
> Also, an ICE has barely warmed up after 5 miles - hugely polluting and
> inefficient.

In aggregate, BEV pollute more. You are discarding the
pollution creating the batteries (not the mention the
child labor), the pollution recycling the batteries, and
the pollution creating the electricity to charge the
batteries, the particulate pollution from the tires
wearing out twice as fast do the BEV's being twice as
heavy and the torque applied to the tires, the pollution
when they catch fire, the brake dust from being twice
as heavy, and on and on and so forth.

My ICE heats up in about 30 seconds. What in the world
must you be driving?

On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 19:16:22 -0400, Ed P <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:

>On 4/27/2024 6:49 PM, Frank wrote:
>> On 4/27/2024 5:13 PM, Alexandria Ocrazyo-Vortex wrote:
>>> Electric car review.
>>>
>>> Watch This Before You Even Think About Buying an Electric Car, DIY and
>>> car review Scotty Kilmer. New York Just Banned Electric Vehicles (and
>>> Your State is Next). Worst electric cars to buy. Buying a new electric
>>> car. Should I buy an electric car. How much does it cost to run an
>>> electric car. Why not to buy a electric car. The truth about owning an
>>> electric car. Car advice.
>>>
>>> DIY car repair with Scotty Kilmer, an auto mechanic for the last 56
>>> years.
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znGgS_0AHWk
>>>
>>>
>>> Democrats are dumber than a box of rocks.
>>
>> Saw that today in relation to battery fires in electric scooters and
>> bicycles:
>>
>> https://nypost.com/2024/03/03/us-news/more-nyc-fires-caused-by-lithium-ion-batteries-in-two-months-than-in-all-of-2019-fdny-chief/
>>
>> As Scotty pointed out these are small fires but in an EV, look out.
>> There goes your garage and house.
>
>Look at the statistics. ICE cars burn up much more frequently.
>
>https://www.kbb.com/car-news/study-electric-vehicles-involved-in-fewest-car-fires/
>
>https://www.greencarstocks.com/statistics-show-ice-vehicle-fires-20-time-more-likely-than-ev-fires/
>
>Perhaps you should park at the shopping center and have Scotty give you
>a ride home.
better than 90% of scooter lithium fires are the result of not using a
proper charger. You need a properly calibrated and regulated 2 or 3
stage charger that charges constant current to a predertermined
voltagem then constant vottage untill the charging current drops to a
particular point. Different lithium chemistries require different
charging settings

On Sun, 28 Apr 2024 23:37:45 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
wrote:

>On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 19:16:22 -0400, Ed P <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:
>
>>On 4/27/2024 6:49 PM, Frank wrote:
>>> On 4/27/2024 5:13 PM, Alexandria Ocrazyo-Vortex wrote:
>>>> Electric car review.
>>>>
>>>> Watch This Before You Even Think About Buying an Electric Car, DIY and
>>>> car review Scotty Kilmer. New York Just Banned Electric Vehicles (and
>>>> Your State is Next). Worst electric cars to buy. Buying a new electric
>>>> car. Should I buy an electric car. How much does it cost to run an
>>>> electric car. Why not to buy a electric car. The truth about owning an
>>>> electric car. Car advice.
>>>>
>>>> DIY car repair with Scotty Kilmer, an auto mechanic for the last 56
>>>> years.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znGgS_0AHWk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Democrats are dumber than a box of rocks.
>>>
>>> Saw that today in relation to battery fires in electric scooters and
>>> bicycles:
>>>
>>> https://nypost.com/2024/03/03/us-news/more-nyc-fires-caused-by-lithium-ion-batteries-in-two-months-than-in-all-of-2019-fdny-chief/
>>>
>>> As Scotty pointed out these are small fires but in an EV, look out.
>>> There goes your garage and house.
>>
>>Look at the statistics. ICE cars burn up much more frequently.
>>
>>https://www.kbb.com/car-news/study-electric-vehicles-involved-in-fewest-car-fires/
>>
>>https://www.greencarstocks.com/statistics-show-ice-vehicle-fires-20-time-more-likely-than-ev-fires/
>>
>>Perhaps you should park at the shopping center and have Scotty give you
>>a ride home.
>better than 90% of scooter lithium fires are the result of not using a
>proper charger. You need a properly calibrated and regulated 2 or 3
>stage charger that charges constant current to a predertermined
>voltagem then constant vottage untill the charging current drops to a
>particular point. Different lithium chemistries require different
>charging settings
>

My son says that many of the e-bike fires that they are called out
for are people who are DIY re-furbishing batteries or
using DIY re-furbed batteries - and combined with improper
charging.
When we first bought our e-bikes I kept close eye on the
batteries & chargers - I could barely detect any heating-up.
And I never leave them plugged in after full charge is reached.
John T.

hubops@ccanoemail.com writes:
>On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 18:47:16 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
>wrote:

>> I have "real" experience with EVs that goes back to the seventies -
>>in many ways they have not made a LOT of progress. Back in '78 my 4
>>passenger EV went 50 miles on a charge at 30MPH and 30 at 50 - and a
>>recharge took 8 hours and cost a quarter.
>>Controllers have gotten MUCH better - and so has battery life.
>> I "built" my own EV - a conversion - to my own design.
>>
>
> The Jeep Grand Cherokee plug-in hybrid was reviewed
>in Friday's newspaper .. in all-electric mode you can
>expect to travel .. < insert fanfare here > ... 42 km.

Which is perfectly fine, as you have an onboard gasoline engine
as backup. Many trips (e.g. to the grocery store) will
be just use the battery.

The operative word is "hybrid"

On Tue, 30 Apr 2024 17:14:15 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

>hubops@ccanoemail.com writes:
>>On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 18:47:16 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
>>wrote:
>
>>> I have "real" experience with EVs that goes back to the seventies -
>>>in many ways they have not made a LOT of progress. Back in '78 my 4
>>>passenger EV went 50 miles on a charge at 30MPH and 30 at 50 - and a
>>>recharge took 8 hours and cost a quarter.
>>>Controllers have gotten MUCH better - and so has battery life.
>>> I "built" my own EV - a conversion - to my own design.
>>>
>>
>> The Jeep Grand Cherokee plug-in hybrid was reviewed
>>in Friday's newspaper .. in all-electric mode you can
>>expect to travel .. < insert fanfare here > ... 42 km.
>
>Which is perfectly fine, as you have an onboard gasoline engine
>as backup. Many trips (e.g. to the grocery store) will
>be just use the battery.
>
>The operative word is "hybrid"
>

Understood. ... but ...
All the non-electric miles are worse < battery weight >
Jeep Grand Cherokee miles will be _mostly_ non-electric.
< or why own one ? >
... there-ya-go and there-ya are.
My few Grand Cherokee friends < faithful Jeep nuts >
are driving the Jeep because they do long county road
or highway driving in winter .. not this hybrid's forte.

I'm hoping for a decent EV in my lifetime - but these
quasi-fake-green-gas-guzzlers are not my thing -
and need to be outed.
John T.

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 30 Apr 2024 16:29:31 -0400,
hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:

>On Tue, 30 Apr 2024 17:14:15 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>wrote:
>
>>hubops@ccanoemail.com writes:
>>>On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 18:47:16 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
>>>wrote:
>>
>>>> I have "real" experience with EVs that goes back to the seventies -
>>>>in many ways they have not made a LOT of progress. Back in '78 my 4
>>>>passenger EV went 50 miles on a charge at 30MPH and 30 at 50 - and a
>>>>recharge took 8 hours and cost a quarter.
>>>>Controllers have gotten MUCH better - and so has battery life.
>>>> I "built" my own EV - a conversion - to my own design.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The Jeep Grand Cherokee plug-in hybrid was reviewed
>>>in Friday's newspaper .. in all-electric mode you can
>>>expect to travel .. < insert fanfare here > ... 42 km.
>>
>>Which is perfectly fine, as you have an onboard gasoline engine
>>as backup. Many trips (e.g. to the grocery store) will
>>be just use the battery.
>>
>>The operative word is "hybrid"
>>
>
>Understood. ... but ...
>All the non-electric miles are worse < battery weight >

That's true. The gas engine has to lug around a heavy electric system,
and the electric power has to lug around a heavy gas engine.

I wonder if hybrid corn has the same problems.

>Jeep Grand Cherokee miles will be _mostly_ non-electric.
> < or why own one ? >
> ... there-ya-go and there-ya are.
>My few Grand Cherokee friends < faithful Jeep nuts >
>are driving the Jeep because they do long county road
> or highway driving in winter .. not this hybrid's forte.
>
>I'm hoping for a decent EV in my lifetime - but these
>quasi-fake-green-gas-guzzlers are not my thing -
>and need to be outed.
> John T.

hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
> I'm hoping for a decent EV in my lifetime - but these
> quasi-fake-green-gas-guzzlers are not my thing -
> and need to be outed.
> John T.

I would prefer an EV but
- they cost $15k more initially
- have far less range (especially on hot and cold days)
- take too long to recharge
- and when the battery fails to hold its charge, the car will be worthless until the $20k battery is replaced.

EVs are just a novelty at this point.

On 5/1/24 6:41 AM, Dik Kraven-Moorehead wrote:
> hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>> I'm hoping for a decent  EV  in my lifetime  -  but these
>> quasi-fake-green-gas-guzzlers  are not my thing  -
>> and need to be   outed.
>>    John T.
>
> I would prefer an EV but
> - they cost $15k more initially
> - have far less range (especially on hot and cold days)
> - take too long to recharge
> - and when the battery fails to hold its charge, the car will be
> worthless until the $20k battery is replaced.
>
> EVs are just a novelty at this point.
>
>
And don't forget there ain't a charging station on every other corner
like there is a gas station ;-)

--
Because we're here lad. Nobody else. Just us.

Colour Sergeant Bourne wrote:
> On 5/1/24 6:41 AM, Dik Kraven-Moorehead wrote:
>> hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>>> I'm hoping for a decent  EV  in my lifetime  -  but these
>>> quasi-fake-green-gas-guzzlers  are not my thing  -
>>> and need to be   outed.
>>>    John T.
>>
>> I would prefer an EV but
>> - they cost $15k more initially
>> - have far less range (especially on hot and cold days)
>> - take too long to recharge
>> - and when the battery fails to hold its charge, the car will be
>> worthless until the $20k battery is replaced.
>>
>> EVs are just a novelty at this point.
>>
>>
> And don't forget there ain't a charging station on every other corner
> like there is a gas station ;-)
>

Exactly! And once you find a charging station, then you have to find a
charger that works.

On 5/1/2024 8:30 AM, Colour Sergeant Bourne wrote:
> On 5/1/24 6:41 AM, Dik Kraven-Moorehead wrote:
>> hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>>> I'm hoping for a decent  EV  in my lifetime  -  but these
>>> quasi-fake-green-gas-guzzlers  are not my thing  -
>>> and need to be   outed.
>>>    John T.
>>
>> I would prefer an EV but
>> - they cost $15k more initially
>> - have far less range (especially on hot and cold days)
>> - take too long to recharge
>> - and when the battery fails to hold its charge, the car will be
>> worthless until the $20k battery is replaced.
>>
>> EVs are just a novelty at this point.
>>
>>
> And don't forget there ain't a charging station on every other corner
> like there is a gas station ;-)
>

It will take time, just like it did for the ICE cars. In the beginning,
there were no gas station and you had to go to a drug store or hardware
store for naphtha. Times have changed.

Look how stupid the Wright brothers were. They invented the airplane
and it was useless as there were no airports.

On 5/1/2024 9:02 AM, Juan Smith wrote:
> Colour Sergeant Bourne wrote:
>> On 5/1/24 6:41 AM, Dik Kraven-Moorehead wrote:
>>> hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>>>> I'm hoping for a decent  EV  in my lifetime  -  but these
>>>> quasi-fake-green-gas-guzzlers  are not my thing  -
>>>> and need to be   outed.
>>>>    John T.
>>>
>>> I would prefer an EV but
>>> - they cost $15k more initially
>>> - have far less range (especially on hot and cold days)
>>> - take too long to recharge
>>> - and when the battery fails to hold its charge, the car will be
>>> worthless until the $20k battery is replaced.
>>>
>>> EVs are just a novelty at this point.
>>>
>>>
>> And don't forget there ain't a charging station on every other corner
>> like there is a gas station ;-)
>>
>
> Exactly! And once you find a charging station, then you have to find a
> charger that works.

The problem is not the EV's but governments forcing us to own them using
the scare of climate change. Currently most people do not want them for
lack of infra structure and cost. They should keep hands off and let
the market develop naturally. If you press them they will tell you any
effect on climate change is very small.

Frank <"frank "@frank.net> writes:

>> Exactly! And once you find a charging station, then you have to find a
>> charger that works.
>
>The problem is not the EV's but governments forcing us to own

The government isn't forcing anyone to own EVs.

> them using
>the scare of climate change.

Climate change is not a "scare". It's real.

The more pressing issue is that there is a finite
amount of oil remaining while annual consumption is
increasing worldwide. Waiting for it to run out
before replacing it whould be not just foolish, but
would collapse the world economy. Before that it will
lead to resource wars (which may already have started
in the Ukraine conflict). As it is, it may already be
too late to stave off future resource conflicts (e.g.
the Spratley's).

After all, it takes energy to make energy. See the
"Energy Trap".

https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/10/the-energy-trap/

On 5/1/2024 12:03 PM, Frank wrote:
> On 5/1/2024 9:02 AM, Juan Smith wrote:
>> Colour Sergeant Bourne wrote:
>>> On 5/1/24 6:41 AM, Dik Kraven-Moorehead wrote:
>>>> hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>>>>> I'm hoping for a decent  EV  in my lifetime  -  but these
>>>>> quasi-fake-green-gas-guzzlers  are not my thing  -
>>>>> and need to be   outed.
>>>>>    John T.
>>>>
>>>> I would prefer an EV but
>>>> - they cost $15k more initially
>>>> - have far less range (especially on hot and cold days)
>>>> - take too long to recharge
>>>> - and when the battery fails to hold its charge, the car will be
>>>> worthless until the $20k battery is replaced.
>>>>
>>>> EVs are just a novelty at this point.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> And don't forget there ain't a charging station on every other corner
>>> like there is a gas station ;-)
>>>
>>
>> Exactly! And once you find a charging station, then you have to find a
>> charger that works.
>
> The problem is not the EV's but governments forcing us to own them using
> the scare of climate change.  Currently most people do not want them for
> lack of infra structure and cost.  They should keep hands off and let
> the market develop naturally.  If you press them they will tell you any
> effect on climate change is very small.

Climate change is a factor, but so is the oil supply. It is a finite
material. We won't run out next year but this is a good time to come up
with alternatives.

Remember how people complained about $5 gas? As it becomes more scare,
more expensive to drill, it will be much more than that for our grandkids.

The government should not force, but some nudges can be a good thing.

Instead of people ridiculing EV owners, they should thank them for being
a part of the development for a better products. They are the ones
bringing about the change and increased infrastructure.

As for charging station that work, many have been intentionally damaged
by the same idiots that block them with their diesel pickups. Their
brains have not fully developed.

On 5/1/2024 12:42 PM, Ed P wrote:
> On 5/1/2024 12:03 PM, Frank wrote:
>> On 5/1/2024 9:02 AM, Juan Smith wrote:
>>> Colour Sergeant Bourne wrote:
>>>> On 5/1/24 6:41 AM, Dik Kraven-Moorehead wrote:
>>>>> hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>>>>>> I'm hoping for a decent  EV  in my lifetime  -  but these
>>>>>> quasi-fake-green-gas-guzzlers  are not my thing  -
>>>>>> and need to be   outed.
>>>>>>    John T.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would prefer an EV but
>>>>> - they cost $15k more initially
>>>>> - have far less range (especially on hot and cold days)
>>>>> - take too long to recharge
>>>>> - and when the battery fails to hold its charge, the car will be
>>>>> worthless until the $20k battery is replaced.
>>>>>
>>>>> EVs are just a novelty at this point.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> And don't forget there ain't a charging station on every other
>>>> corner like there is a gas station ;-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> Exactly! And once you find a charging station, then you have to find
>>> a charger that works.
>>
>> The problem is not the EV's but governments forcing us to own them
>> using the scare of climate change.  Currently most people do not want
>> them for lack of infra structure and cost.  They should keep hands off
>> and let the market develop naturally.  If you press them they will
>> tell you any effect on climate change is very small.
>
> Climate change is a factor, but so is the oil supply.  It is a finite
> material.  We won't run out next year but this is a good time to come up
> with alternatives.
>
> Remember how people complained about $5 gas?  As it becomes more scare,
> more expensive to drill, it will be much more than that for our grandkids.
>
> The government should not force, but some nudges can be a good thing.
>
> Instead of people ridiculing EV owners, they should thank them for being
> a part of the development for a better products.  They are the ones
> bringing about the change and increased infrastructure.
>
> As for charging station that work, many have been intentionally damaged
> by the same idiots that block them with their diesel pickups. Their
> brains have not fully developed.

Climate has always been changing but it is not something to panic over
and accept draconian government mandates used to get more control over us.

On 2024-05-01, Colour Sergeant Bourne <bourne@rorke.za> wrote:
> On 5/1/24 6:41 AM, Dik Kraven-Moorehead wrote:
>> hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>>> I'm hoping for a decent  EV  in my lifetime  -  but these
>>> quasi-fake-green-gas-guzzlers  are not my thing  -
>>> and need to be   outed.
>>>    John T.
>>
>> I would prefer an EV but
>> - they cost $15k more initially
>> - have far less range (especially on hot and cold days)
>> - take too long to recharge
>> - and when the battery fails to hold its charge, the car will be
>> worthless until the $20k battery is replaced.
>>
>> EVs are just a novelty at this point.
>>
>>
> And don't forget there ain't a charging station on every other corner
> like there is a gas station ;-)

Doesn't matter. If I had an EV, I'd charge it at home.

--
Cindy Hamilton

On 5/1/24 12:55 PM, Frank wrote:
> On 5/1/2024 12:42 PM, Ed P wrote:
>> On 5/1/2024 12:03 PM, Frank wrote:
>>> On 5/1/2024 9:02 AM, Juan Smith wrote:
>>>> Colour Sergeant Bourne wrote:
>>>>> On 5/1/24 6:41 AM, Dik Kraven-Moorehead wrote:
>>>>>> hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> I'm hoping for a decent  EV  in my lifetime  -  but these
>>>>>>> quasi-fake-green-gas-guzzlers  are not my thing  -
>>>>>>> and need to be   outed.
>>>>>>>    John T.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would prefer an EV but
>>>>>> - they cost $15k more initially
>>>>>> - have far less range (especially on hot and cold days)
>>>>>> - take too long to recharge
>>>>>> - and when the battery fails to hold its charge, the car will be
>>>>>> worthless until the $20k battery is replaced.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> EVs are just a novelty at this point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> And don't forget there ain't a charging station on every other
>>>>> corner like there is a gas station ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Exactly! And once you find a charging station, then you have to find
>>>> a charger that works.
>>>
>>> The problem is not the EV's but governments forcing us to own them
>>> using the scare of climate change.  Currently most people do not want
>>> them for lack of infra structure and cost.  They should keep hands
>>> off and let the market develop naturally.  If you press them they
>>> will tell you any effect on climate change is very small.
>>
>> Climate change is a factor, but so is the oil supply.  It is a finite
>> material.  We won't run out next year but this is a good time to come
>> up with alternatives.
>>
>> Remember how people complained about $5 gas?  As it becomes more
>> scare, more expensive to drill, it will be much more than that for our
>> grandkids.
>>
>> The government should not force, but some nudges can be a good thing.
>>
>> Instead of people ridiculing EV owners, they should thank them for
>> being a part of the development for a better products.  They are the
>> ones bringing about the change and increased infrastructure.
>>
>> As for charging station that work, many have been intentionally
>> damaged by the same idiots that block them with their diesel pickups.
>> Their brains have not fully developed.
>
> Climate has always been changing but it is not something to panic over
> and accept draconian government mandates used to get more control over us.

Right.

And remember that just a short 10,000 years ago-- an eye-blink in
geological timer-- the norther hemisphere was covered in a layer of ice
hundreds of feet deep.

I also recall that back in the 60's and 70's, the media was screaming
about deadly global cooling and predicting another Ice Age as the
average temp had dropped a degree or two over a decade!!

Quick. Run and tell the king!!

--
The difference between the government and robbers is that robbers don't
pretend they're helping you

On 5/1/24 1:35 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On 2024-05-01, Colour Sergeant Bourne <bourne@rorke.za> wrote:
>> On 5/1/24 6:41 AM, Dik Kraven-Moorehead wrote:
>>> hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>>>> I'm hoping for a decent  EV  in my lifetime  -  but these
>>>> quasi-fake-green-gas-guzzlers  are not my thing  -
>>>> and need to be   outed.
>>>>    John T.
>>>
>>> I would prefer an EV but
>>> - they cost $15k more initially
>>> - have far less range (especially on hot and cold days)
>>> - take too long to recharge
>>> - and when the battery fails to hold its charge, the car will be
>>> worthless until the $20k battery is replaced.
>>>
>>> EVs are just a novelty at this point.
>>>
>>>
>> And don't forget there ain't a charging station on every other corner
>> like there is a gas station ;-)
>
> Doesn't matter. If I had an EV, I'd charge it at home.
>

Yeah that works fine for local daily driving. But not if you're on a
trip to your friend's house in the nest state.

--
Because we're here lad. Nobody else. Just us.

On 5/1/2024 1:54 PM, Colour Sergeant Bourne wrote:
> On 5/1/24 1:35 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> On 2024-05-01, Colour Sergeant Bourne <bourne@rorke.za> wrote:
>>> On 5/1/24 6:41 AM, Dik Kraven-Moorehead wrote:
>>>> hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>>>>> I'm hoping for a decent  EV  in my lifetime  -  but these
>>>>> quasi-fake-green-gas-guzzlers  are not my thing  -
>>>>> and need to be   outed.
>>>>>     John T.
>>>>
>>>> I would prefer an EV but
>>>> - they cost $15k more initially
>>>> - have far less range (especially on hot and cold days)
>>>> - take too long to recharge
>>>> - and when the battery fails to hold its charge, the car will be
>>>> worthless until the $20k battery is replaced.
>>>>
>>>> EVs are just a novelty at this point.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> And don't forget there ain't a charging station on every other corner
>>> like there is a gas station ;-)
>>
>> Doesn't matter.  If I had an EV, I'd charge it at home.
>>
>
> Yeah that works fine for local daily driving. But not if you're on a
> trip to your friend's house in the nest state.
>

Sure, that is a niche for them. The Chinese are also making cheap EV's
and she can buy one when available. "The BYD Dolphin EV sells for the
equivalent of around $16,500 in China."

On 5/1/2024 2:26 PM, Frank wrote:
> On 5/1/2024 1:54 PM, Colour Sergeant Bourne wrote:
>> On 5/1/24 1:35 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>> On 2024-05-01, Colour Sergeant Bourne <bourne@rorke.za> wrote:
>>>> On 5/1/24 6:41 AM, Dik Kraven-Moorehead wrote:
>>>>> hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>>>>>> I'm hoping for a decent  EV  in my lifetime  -  but these
>>>>>> quasi-fake-green-gas-guzzlers  are not my thing  -
>>>>>> and need to be   outed.
>>>>>>     John T.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would prefer an EV but
>>>>> - they cost $15k more initially
>>>>> - have far less range (especially on hot and cold days)
>>>>> - take too long to recharge
>>>>> - and when the battery fails to hold its charge, the car will be
>>>>> worthless until the $20k battery is replaced.
>>>>>
>>>>> EVs are just a novelty at this point.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> And don't forget there ain't a charging station on every other corner
>>>> like there is a gas station ;-)
>>>
>>> Doesn't matter.  If I had an EV, I'd charge it at home.
>>>
>>
>> Yeah that works fine for local daily driving. But not if you're on a
>> trip to your friend's house in the nest state.
>>
>
> Sure, that is a niche for them.  The Chinese are also making cheap EV's
> and she can buy one when available.  "The BYD Dolphin EV sells for the
> equivalent of around $16,500 in China."

There is also a cheaper one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tkkVgfrYi4

To get around regulations the Chinese could build them in Mexico.

On 5/1/2024 12:55 PM, Frank wrote:
> On 5/1/2024 12:42 PM, Ed P wrote:

>>>
>>> The problem is not the EV's but governments forcing us to own them
>>> using the scare of climate change.  Currently most people do not want
>>> them for lack of infra structure and cost.  They should keep hands
>>> off and let the market develop naturally.  If you press them they
>>> will tell you any effect on climate change is very small.
>>
>> Climate change is a factor, but so is the oil supply.  It is a finite
>> material.  We won't run out next year but this is a good time to come
>> up with alternatives.
>>
>> Remember how people complained about $5 gas?  As it becomes more
>> scare, more expensive to drill, it will be much more than that for our
>> grandkids.
>>
>> The government should not force, but some nudges can be a good thing.
>>
>> Instead of people ridiculing EV owners, they should thank them for
>> being a part of the development for a better products.  They are the
>> ones bringing about the change and increased infrastructure.
>>
>> As for charging station that work, many have been intentionally
>> damaged by the same idiots that block them with their diesel pickups.
>> Their brains have not fully developed.
>
> Climate has always been changing but it is not something to panic over
> and accept draconian government mandates used to get more control over us.

Sure, burning 100 million tons of fuel every day for the past 100+ years
would make no difference. Look at the science.

The methods to change don't have to be draconian, but at some point we
do have to change. Some people would rather fight it though.

On 5/1/2024 1:54 PM, Colour Sergeant Bourne wrote:
> On 5/1/24 1:35 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> On 2024-05-01, Colour Sergeant Bourne <bourne@rorke.za> wrote:
>>> On 5/1/24 6:41 AM, Dik Kraven-Moorehead wrote:
>>>> hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>>>>> I'm hoping for a decent  EV  in my lifetime  -  but these
>>>>> quasi-fake-green-gas-guzzlers  are not my thing  -
>>>>> and need to be   outed.
>>>>>     John T.
>>>>
>>>> I would prefer an EV but
>>>> - they cost $15k more initially
>>>> - have far less range (especially on hot and cold days)
>>>> - take too long to recharge
>>>> - and when the battery fails to hold its charge, the car will be
>>>> worthless until the $20k battery is replaced.
>>>>
>>>> EVs are just a novelty at this point.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> And don't forget there ain't a charging station on every other corner
>>> like there is a gas station ;-)
>>
>> Doesn't matter.  If I had an EV, I'd charge it at home.
>>
>
> Yeah that works fine for local daily driving. But not if you're on a
> trip to your friend's house in the nest state.
>

That will change. New battery technology will fix that in a few years
and one reason, the demand will be enough for the investment.

There was a time that gas stations did not exist, yet the auto industry
grew.

On 5/1/2024 2:32 PM, Ed P wrote:
> On 5/1/2024 12:55 PM, Frank wrote:
>> On 5/1/2024 12:42 PM, Ed P wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>> The problem is not the EV's but governments forcing us to own them
>>>> using the scare of climate change.  Currently most people do not
>>>> want them for lack of infra structure and cost.  They should keep
>>>> hands off and let the market develop naturally.  If you press them
>>>> they will tell you any effect on climate change is very small.
>>>
>>> Climate change is a factor, but so is the oil supply.  It is a finite
>>> material.  We won't run out next year but this is a good time to come
>>> up with alternatives.
>>>
>>> Remember how people complained about $5 gas?  As it becomes more
>>> scare, more expensive to drill, it will be much more than that for
>>> our grandkids.
>>>
>>> The government should not force, but some nudges can be a good thing.
>>>
>>> Instead of people ridiculing EV owners, they should thank them for
>>> being a part of the development for a better products.  They are the
>>> ones bringing about the change and increased infrastructure.
>>>
>>> As for charging station that work, many have been intentionally
>>> damaged by the same idiots that block them with their diesel pickups.
>>> Their brains have not fully developed.
>>
>> Climate has always been changing but it is not something to panic over
>> and accept draconian government mandates used to get more control over
>> us.
>
>
> Sure, burning 100 million tons of fuel every day for the past 100+ years
> would make no difference.  Look at the science.
>
> The methods to change don't have to be draconian, but at some point we
> do have to change.  Some people would rather fight it though.

I believe in science and spent most of my life in R&D. In some of the
pathways being pursued, the view is not worth the climb, e.g. offshore
wind farms. Nuclear is probably the way to go for electricity but those
that promote wind and solar just throw obstacles in the way of building
new nuclear plants.

Colour Sergeant Bourne <bourne@rorke.za> writes:
>On 5/1/24 12:55 PM, Frank wrote:

>> Climate has always been changing but it is not something to panic over
>> and accept draconian government mandates used to get more control over us.
>
>Right.
>
>And remember that just a short 10,000 years ago-- an eye-blink in
>geological timer-- the norther hemisphere was covered in a layer of ice
>hundreds of feet deep.

The obvious fallacy in your arguments is that the historic climate
changes happen over a 10,000 to 100,000 year period, giving the planetary
ecosystem time to adapt. When the changes occur in a less than 100 year
timeframe, the system cannot adapt fast enough.

Not to mention that historically, CO2 has remained within a small
range during the time since the modern human evolved, and that range
is being exceeded as this is written. Terra incognito, indeed.