It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarilly autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themeselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were bascially writing satiricle sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements incliuded in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similiar to the ones experianced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical...

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:00:05 PM UTC-5, jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarally autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were basically writing satirical sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements included in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similar to the ones experienced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical...

Steely Dan is one of the best examples....

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 4:05:52 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:00:05 PM UTC-5, jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarally autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were basically writing satirical sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements included in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similar to the ones experienced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical...
>
> Steely Dan is one of the best examples....

Agree and seconded.

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:00:05 PM UTC-5, jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
> It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarilly autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themeselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were bascially writing satiricle sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements incliuded in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similiar to the ones experianced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical...
>

Anyone who writes knows that most writing is not autobiographical.

However, when the poet says that his poem was "largely based on personal experience," one can assume that it's mostly autobiographical. Which covers George Dance (who, as you should be aware, is currently debating whether his poem that was "largely based on personal experience" is therefore "largely autobiographical"), and who seems to have been the inspiration for this post.

As a writer, my works are rarely autobiographical, although they do include some autobiographical elements. I have written only two autobiographical short stories ("The Blue Jay" and "My Favorite Song"), and several others that were loosely based on my personal experiences. Only one of my poems, "Love Thy Neighbor," is autobiographical -- and it only depicts an unfulfilled desire:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHUNEz7YDJs

Fortunately, I moved.

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 11:06:35 PM UTC, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:00:05 PM UTC-5, jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
> > It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarilly autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themeselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were bascially writing satiricle sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements incliuded in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similiar to the ones experianced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical...
> >
> Anyone who writes knows that most writing is not autobiographical.
>
> However, when the poet says that his poem was "largely based on personal experience," one can assume that it's mostly autobiographical. Which covers George Dance (who, as you should be aware, is currently debating whether his poem that was "largely based on personal experience" is therefore "largely autobiographical"), and who seems to have been the inspiration for this post.
>
> As a writer, my works are rarely autobiographical, although they do include some autobiographical elements. I have written only two autobiographical short stories ("The Blue Jay" and "My Favorite Song"), and several others that were loosely based on my personal experiences. Only one of my poems, "Love Thy Neighbor," is autobiographical -- and it only depicts an unfulfilled desire:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHUNEz7YDJs
We love the poem, Michael! Such a light touch and beautiful images.
>
> Fortunately, I moved.
But the neighbor stayed there...forever?

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 6:51:43 PM UTC-5, NancyGene wrote:
> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 11:06:35 PM UTC, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:00:05 PM UTC-5, jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarilly autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themeselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were bascially writing satiricle sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements incliuded in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similiar to the ones experianced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical...
> > >
> > Anyone who writes knows that most writing is not autobiographical.
> >
> > However, when the poet says that his poem was "largely based on personal experience," one can assume that it's mostly autobiographical. Which covers George Dance (who, as you should be aware, is currently debating whether his poem that was "largely based on personal experience" is therefore "largely autobiographical"), and who seems to have been the inspiration for this post.
> >
> > As a writer, my works are rarely autobiographical, although they do include some autobiographical elements. I have written only two autobiographical short stories ("The Blue Jay" and "My Favorite Song"), and several others that were loosely based on my personal experiences. Only one of my poems, "Love Thy Neighbor," is autobiographical -- and it only depicts an unfulfilled desire:
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHUNEz7YDJs
> We love the poem, Michael! Such a light touch and beautiful images.
> >
> > Fortunately, I moved.
> But the neighbor stayed there...forever?

As far as I know, he's still there. I do regret not having disemboweled him... but as his presence no longer impacts my life, the potential risk outweighs the satisfaction.

On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:16:52 AM UTC, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 6:51:43 PM UTC-5, NancyGene wrote:
> > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 11:06:35 PM UTC, michaelmalef...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:00:05 PM UTC-5, jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarilly autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themeselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were bascially writing satiricle sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements incliuded in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similiar to the ones experianced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical...
> > > >
> > > Anyone who writes knows that most writing is not autobiographical.
> > >
> > > However, when the poet says that his poem was "largely based on personal experience," one can assume that it's mostly autobiographical. Which covers George Dance (who, as you should be aware, is currently debating whether his poem that was "largely based on personal experience" is therefore "largely autobiographical"), and who seems to have been the inspiration for this post.
> > >
> > > As a writer, my works are rarely autobiographical, although they do include some autobiographical elements. I have written only two autobiographical short stories ("The Blue Jay" and "My Favorite Song"), and several others that were loosely based on my personal experiences. Only one of my poems, "Love Thy Neighbor," is autobiographical -- and it only depicts an unfulfilled desire:
> > >
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHUNEz7YDJs
> > We love the poem, Michael! Such a light touch and beautiful images.
> > >
> > > Fortunately, I moved.
> > But the neighbor stayed there...forever?
> As far as I know, he's still there. I do regret not having disemboweled him... but as his presence no longer impacts my life, the potential risk outweighs the satisfaction.

Someone else must have done it--we can look in our files for similar cold cases. - Dr. NancyGene, Chief Medical Examiner

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 7:38:56 PM UTC-5, NancyGene wrote:
> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:16:52 AM UTC, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 6:51:43 PM UTC-5, NancyGene wrote:
> > > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 11:06:35 PM UTC, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:00:05 PM UTC-5, jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarilly autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themeselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were bascially writing satiricle sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements incliuded in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similiar to the ones experianced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical...
> > > > >
> > > > Anyone who writes knows that most writing is not autobiographical.
> > > >
> > > > However, when the poet says that his poem was "largely based on personal experience," one can assume that it's mostly autobiographical. Which covers George Dance (who, as you should be aware, is currently debating whether his poem that was "largely based on personal experience" is therefore "largely autobiographical"), and who seems to have been the inspiration for this post.
> > > >
> > > > As a writer, my works are rarely autobiographical, although they do include some autobiographical elements. I have written only two autobiographical short stories ("The Blue Jay" and "My Favorite Song"), and several others that were loosely based on my personal experiences. Only one of my poems, "Love Thy Neighbor," is autobiographical -- and it only depicts an unfulfilled desire:
> > > >
> > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHUNEz7YDJs
> > > We love the poem, Michael! Such a light touch and beautiful images.
> > > >
> > > > Fortunately, I moved.
> > > But the neighbor stayed there...forever?
> > As far as I know, he's still there. I do regret not having disemboweled him... but as his presence no longer impacts my life, the potential risk outweighs the satisfaction.
> Someone else must have done it--we can look in our files for similar cold cases. - Dr. NancyGene, Chief Medical Examiner

As far as I know, he's still there. I do regret not having disemboweled him..

If he was as immense as your images indicate, a nice neighborly flensing would have done him some good, Mike!!
Savagely funny!!

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:00:05 PM UTC-5, jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarally autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were basically writing satirical sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements included in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similar to the ones experienced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical.

As Karla Rogers often reminded us:

"Try not to mistake the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem."

🙂

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 6:06:35 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:00:05 PM UTC-5, jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarilly autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themeselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were bascially writing satiricle sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements incliuded in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similiar to the ones experianced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical...
> >
> Anyone who writes knows that most writing is not autobiographical.
>
> However, when the poet says that his poem was "largely based on personal experience," one can assume that it's mostly autobiographical. Which covers George Dance (who, as you should be aware, is currently debating whether his poem that was "largely based on personal experience" is therefore "largely autobiographical"), and who seems to have been the inspiration for this post.

There are elements of autobiography in George Dance's poem, but it isn't exactly based on his life, as we know.

> As a writer, my works are rarely autobiographical, although they do include some autobiographical elements. I have written only two autobiographical short stories ("The Blue Jay" and "My Favorite Song"), and several others that were loosely based on my personal experiences. Only one of my poems, "Love Thy Neighbor," is autobiographical -- and it only depicts an unfulfilled desire:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHUNEz7YDJs
>
> Fortunately, I moved.

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 7:57:56 PM UTC-5, Dennis Rowan wrote:
> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 7:38:56 PM UTC-5, NancyGene wrote:
> > On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:16:52 AM UTC, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 6:51:43 PM UTC-5, NancyGene wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 11:06:35 PM UTC, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:00:05 PM UTC-5, jdcha...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > > > > It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarilly autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themeselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were bascially writing satiricle sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements incliuded in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similiar to the ones experianced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical....
> > > > > >
> > > > > Anyone who writes knows that most writing is not autobiographical..
> > > > >
> > > > > However, when the poet says that his poem was "largely based on personal experience," one can assume that it's mostly autobiographical. Which covers George Dance (who, as you should be aware, is currently debating whether his poem that was "largely based on personal experience" is therefore "largely autobiographical"), and who seems to have been the inspiration for this post.
> > > > >
> > > > > As a writer, my works are rarely autobiographical, although they do include some autobiographical elements. I have written only two autobiographical short stories ("The Blue Jay" and "My Favorite Song"), and several others that were loosely based on my personal experiences. Only one of my poems, "Love Thy Neighbor," is autobiographical -- and it only depicts an unfulfilled desire:
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHUNEz7YDJs
> > > > We love the poem, Michael! Such a light touch and beautiful images.
> > > > >
> > > > > Fortunately, I moved.
> > > > But the neighbor stayed there...forever?
> > > As far as I know, he's still there. I do regret not having disemboweled him... but as his presence no longer impacts my life, the potential risk outweighs the satisfaction.
> > Someone else must have done it--we can look in our files for similar cold cases. - Dr. NancyGene, Chief Medical Examiner
>
> As far as I know, he's still there. I do regret not having disemboweled him.
> If he was as immense as your images indicate, a nice neighborly flensing would have done him some good, Mike!!
> Savagely funny!!

Thanks, Dennis. He was pretty large: I'd guesstimate about 6'2"... and probably almost as tall.

On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:16:18 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 6:06:35 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:00:05 PM UTC-5, jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarilly autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themeselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were bascially writing satiricle sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements incliuded in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similiar to the ones experianced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical...
> > >
> > Anyone who writes knows that most writing is not autobiographical.
> >
> > However, when the poet says that his poem was "largely based on personal experience," one can assume that it's mostly autobiographical. Which covers George Dance (who, as you should be aware, is currently debating whether his poem that was "largely based on personal experience" is therefore "largely autobiographical"), and who seems to have been the inspiration for this post.
> There are elements of autobiography in George Dance's poem, but it isn't exactly based on his life, as we know.

Bullshit, Donkey.

George has said that his father built a house-in-a-box, and he has said that all the boys in his house were subjected to corporal punishment. That's about half of the poem's content right there.

So what part did George make up? Having to take his shoes off before going inside? Not being allowed to play like other kids? Wanting to buy his father's house and burn it down?

It really doesn't matter, because the bare-assed whipping scene is the one we've been discussing, and anyone who's experienced corporal punishment has felt the sting of a belt more than once.

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:16:18 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 6:06:35 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:00:05 PM UTC-5, jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >
>> > > It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarilly autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themeselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were bascially writing satiricle sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements incliuded in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similiar to the ones experianced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical...
>> > >
>> > Anyone who writes knows that most writing is not autobiographical.
>> >
>> > However, when the poet says that his poem was "largely based on personal experience," one can assume that it's mostly autobiographical. Which covers George Dance (who, as you should be aware, is currently debating whether his poem that was "largely based on personal experience" is therefore "largely autobiographical"), and who seems to have been the inspiration for this post.
>> There are elements of autobiography in George Dance's poem, but it isn't exactly based on his life, as we know.

> Bullshit

No it isn't, little monkey.

🙂

Wrong, Pendragon, because the poet has the final word as to the meaning and intent of his poetry.

George Dance has stated several times now that your interpretation of his poem is mistaken.

HTH and HAND.

On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 1:18:07 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Wrong, Pendragon, because the poet has the final word as to the meaning and intent of his poetry.
>
> George Dance has stated several times now that your interpretation of his poem is mistaken.

A poem is open to interpretation, Donkey.

George's statements are not.

George has stated the following:

1) That the poem was "largely based on" his own experiences,
2) That the boys in his house were subject to corporal punishment,
3) That his father built a house-in-the-box.

Since the father in the poem builds a house-in-the-box and subjects his son (the speaker) to corporal punishment, and since the poem is "largely based on" George's personal experience, it is not a matter of question that the boy in the poem who got whipped with his daddy's belt was George.

On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 2:50:32 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> > On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:16:18 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 6:06:35 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:00:05 PM UTC-5, jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarilly autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themeselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were bascially writing satiricle sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements incliuded in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similiar to the ones experianced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical...
> >> > >
> >> > Anyone who writes knows that most writing is not autobiographical.
> >> >
> >> > However, when the poet says that his poem was "largely based on personal experience," one can assume that it's mostly autobiographical. Which covers George Dance (who, as you should be aware, is currently debating whether his poem that was "largely based on personal experience" is therefore "largely autobiographical"), and who seems to have been the inspiration for this post.
> >> There are elements of autobiography in George Dance's poem, but it isn't exactly based on his life, as we know.
>
> > Bullshit
> No it isn't, little monkey.

Mea culpa: Donkey shit.

Sure, there are elements from George Dance's childhood in the poem, but not all the details in the poem are autobiographical, as George has repeatedly stated.

HTH and HAND.

On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 3:10:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Sure, there are elements from George Dance's childhood in the poem, but not all the details in the poem are autobiographical, as George has repeatedly stated.

Possibly. But from George's *statements,* he was clearly the bare-assed little boy.

Apparently he's still... wait for it... butt-hurt over the events in the poem, but that's no reason for you to pretend it never happened.

On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 3:18:48 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 3:10:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>
> > Sure, there are elements from George Dance's childhood in the poem, but not all the details in the poem are autobiographical, as George has repeatedly stated.
> Possibly. But from George's *statements,* he was clearly the bare-assed little boy.
>
> Apparently he's still... wait for it... butt-hurt over the events in the poem, but that's no reason for you to pretend it never happened.

If I remember correctly, George Dance denied that.

On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 3:21:38 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 3:18:48 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 3:10:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >
> > > Sure, there are elements from George Dance's childhood in the poem, but not all the details in the poem are autobiographical, as George has repeatedly stated.
> > Possibly. But from George's *statements,* he was clearly the bare-assed little boy.
> >
> > Apparently he's still... wait for it... butt-hurt over the events in the poem, but that's no reason for you to pretend it never happened.
> If I remember correctly, George Dance denied that.

George made the statements I'd listed. If George denied that he was the boy, then George is a liar.

But we both already know that, don't we?

As I wrote earlier, George Dance can speak for himself, he doesn't need you or I to speculate about his meaning and intent.

Here's some of what George Dance has to say about his poem:

"It's a poem I'm proud of. I wrote the first draft quickly,
but I spent several years tweaking it before it went into a book.

The big revision here is the rewrite to L2. In the original discussion,
one of the people trying to cut it to shreds was a poet, and amongst her
complaints she had a criticism I thought valid: it's not clear that the
speaker is the child of the poem now grown up. And I think realizing tht
is essential to appreciating the thing. Having the father been dead for
over a decade makes that much clearer.

As well, it makes certain things more ambiguous, and I think that's a
plus as well. By taking out the old L2, it's no longer clear whether the
house this guy is walking around in is abandoned, or still lived in.
It's also unclear who "they" are; my hidden idea was that the speaker
was under psychiatric care, ant "they" were the ones looking after him,
but I wanted to keep that hidden.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Here's some of what George Dance has to say about the poem. ^^^^^^^

For starters.

Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 3:21:38 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 3:18:48 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 3:10:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>
>> > > Sure, there are elements from George Dance's childhood in the poem, but not all the details in the poem are autobiographical, as George has repeatedly stated.
>> > Possibly. But from George's *statements,* he was clearly the bare-assed little boy.
>> >
>> > Apparently he's still... wait for it... butt-hurt over the events in the poem, but that's no reason for you to pretend it never happened.
>> If I remember correctly, George Dance denied that.

> If George denied that he was the boy

George Dance has stated that certain aspects of the characters in the poem are fictional, yes.

I'm sure you already know that, though, Pendragon.

HTH and HAND.

On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 9:10:32 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 3:21:38 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 3:18:48 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 3:10:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >
> >> > > Sure, there are elements from George Dance's childhood in the poem, but not all the details in the poem are autobiographical, as George has repeatedly stated.
> >> > Possibly. But from George's *statements,* he was clearly the bare-assed little boy.
> >> >
> >> > Apparently he's still... wait for it... butt-hurt over the events in the poem, but that's no reason for you to pretend it never happened.
> >> If I remember correctly, George Dance denied that.
> > If George denied that he was the boy
> George Dance has stated that certain aspects of the characters in the poem are fictional, yes.
>
> I'm sure you already know that, though, Pendragon.

We're not talking about every "aspect" of his poem, Donkey... we're talking about the whippings (whippings on a regular basis are strongly implied) that the narrator received.

But I'm sure you already know that as well.

I'll let George Dance speak for himself, just as he doesn't need you putting words in his mouth either, Pendragon.

HTH and HAND.

On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 10:52:45 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> I'll let George Dance speak for himself, just as he doesn't need you putting words in his mouth either, Pendragon.

I quoted his statements, Donkey.

What's scrawny, white and red all over?

George's butt.