Jordy C wrote:
> On Thursday, May 4, 2023 at 3:37:36 AM UTC-4, W.Dockery wrote:
>> Jordy C wrote:
>> > Will Dockery wrote:
>> >> Jordy C wrote:
>
>> >> > > > > >> >> > > > It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarally autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were basically writing satirical sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements included in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similar to the ones experienced by the character(s) > in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical...
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > > >> Hello there Jordy, great to see you again this morning.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > bonjour, Will
>
>> >> Hello there Jordy, hope you're having a great morning.
>> > thank you, same to you
>> Hello again my friend.
>>
>
> hola Will

Good afternoon, Jordy.

:)

George J. Dance wrote:

> On 2022-12-03 2:00 p.m., jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarilly autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themeselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were bascially writing satiricle sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements incliuded in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similiar to the ones experianced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical...

> Thanks for posting that, Jordy. It's probably the best original piece
> you've posted here: on-topic, supported by argument and example, and
> reasonable in tone throughout. Since some seem to want to discuss the
> ubject further, though, let me ask you a follow-up question:

> Suppose you read a songwriter or poet describing the main character of a
> song or poem in this way: "The boy is a composite; largely based on my
> own experience, but with some details other men have told me about their
> childhoods."
> https://groups.google.com/u/0/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/JMaPb2xVZyU/m/NFVZaZzaUgoJ?hl=en

> Would you assume that that song or poem was autobiographical? Do you
> think anyone must assume that?

Again, well put, George.

jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:

> Will Dockery wrote:
>> jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > Will Dockery wrote:
>> >> jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> >> > > >> It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarally autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were basically writing satirical sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements included in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similar to the ones experienced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical...
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Good morning Jordy, again, well put.
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> > hola Will, thank you
>> >> Hello there Jordy, you're welcome.
>> >>
>> >> Hope you're having a great afternoon.
>> >>
>> >
>> > thank you, same to you
>> Hello again my friend.
>>
>
> bonjour, Will

Good afternoon, Jordy.

:)

On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 6:51:22 PM UTC-4, W-Dockery wrote:
> jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Will Dockery wrote:
> >> jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > Will Dockery wrote:
> >> >> jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >> >> > > >> It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarally autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were basically writing satirical sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements included in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similar to the ones experienced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical....
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Good morning Jordy, again, well put.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > hola Will, thank you
> >> >> Hello there Jordy, you're welcome.
> >> >>
> >> >> Hope you're having a great afternoon.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > thank you, same to you
> >> Hello again my friend.
> >>
> >
> > bonjour, Will
>
> Good afternoon, Jordy.
>
> :)
Shalom Will

Jordy C wrote:

> On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 6:51:22 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Will Dockery wrote:
>> >> jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> >> >> > > >> It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarally autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were basically writing satirical sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements included in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similar to the ones experienced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical....
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > Good morning Jordy, again, well put.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > hola Will, thank you
>> >> >> Hello there Jordy, you're welcome.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Hope you're having a great afternoon.
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > thank you, same to you
>> >> Hello again my friend.
>
> Shalom Will

Good morning, Jordy.

On Thursday, May 25, 2023 at 2:16:58 AM UTC-4, W-Dockery wrote:
> Jordy C wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 6:51:22 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> Will Dockery wrote:
> >> >> jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >> >> >> > > >> It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarally autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were basically writing satirical sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements included in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similar to the ones experienced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical....
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > Good morning Jordy, again, well put.
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > hola Will, thank you
> >> >> >> Hello there Jordy, you're welcome.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Hope you're having a great afternoon.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > thank you, same to you
> >> >> Hello again my friend.
> >
> > Shalom Will
>
> Good morning, Jordy.
bonjour, Will

Jordy C wrote:

> On Thursday, May 25, 2023 at 2:16:58 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Will Dockery wrote:
>> >> jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>> >> It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarally autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were basically writing satirical sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements included in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similar to the ones experienced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical....
>
>> >> Good morning Jordy, again, well put.
>
>>> hola Will, thank you
>
>> Hello there Jordy, you're welcome.
>
>> Good morning, Jordy.
> bonjour, Will

Hello there my friend.

🙂

Jordy C wrote:

> Will Dockery wrote:
>> jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > Jordy C wrote:
>
>> > > > > > > >>> It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarally autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters.... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were basically writing satirical sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements included in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similar to the ones experienced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical.
>
>> >>> Again, agreed, Jordy.
>
>> > >>> Like I said, as Karla Rogers often reminded us:
>
>> >>> "Try not to mistake the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem."
>
>> >> thank you, Will
>
>> > hola Will
>>
>> Hello again my friend.
>>
>
> bonjour, Will

Good afternoon, Jordy.

🙂

On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 3:30:17 PM UTC-4, W-Dockery wrote:
> Jordy C wrote:
>
> > Will Dockery wrote:
> >> jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > Will Dockery wrote:
> >> > > Jordy C wrote:
> >
> >> > > > > > > >>> It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarally autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters.... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were basically writing satirical sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements included in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similar to the ones experienced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical.
> >
> >> >>> Again, agreed, Jordy.
> >
> >> > >>> Like I said, as Karla Rogers often reminded us:
> >
> >> >>> "Try not to mistake the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem."
> >
> >> >> thank you, Will
> >
> >> > hola Will
> >>
> >> Hello again my friend.
> >>
> >
> > bonjour, Will
>
> Good afternoon, Jordy.
> 🙂
Shalom Will

Jordy C wrote:

> On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 3:30:17 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> Jordy C wrote:
>
>>> It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarally autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters.... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were basically writing satirical sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements included in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similar to the ones experienced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical.
>
>> Again, agreed, Jordy.
>
>> Like I said, as Karla Rogers often reminded us:
>
>> "Try not to mistake the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem."
>
> Shalom Will

Hello there my friend, hope your weekend is going well so far.

🙂

On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 9:21:22 AM UTC-4, W.Dockery wrote:
> Jordy C wrote:
> > On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 3:30:17 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> Jordy C wrote:
> >
> >>> It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarally autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters.... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were basically writing satirical sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements included in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similar to the ones experienced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical.
> >
> >> Again, agreed, Jordy.
> >
> >> Like I said, as Karla Rogers often reminded us:
> >
> >> "Try not to mistake the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem."
> >
> > Shalom Will
>
> Hello there my friend, hope your weekend is going well so far.
>
> 🙂

Thanks, same to you

Jordy C wrote:

> On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 9:21:22 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> Jordy C wrote:
>> > On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 3:30:17 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> >> Jordy C wrote:
>> >
>> >>> It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarally autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters.... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were basically writing satirical sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements included in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similar to the ones experienced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical.
>> >
>> >> Again, agreed, Jordy.
>> >
>> >> Like I said, as Karla Rogers often reminded us:
>> >
>> >> "Try not to mistake the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem."
>> >
>> > Shalom Will
>>
>> Hello there my friend, hope your weekend is going well so far.
>>
>

> Thanks, same to you

Good afternoon, Jordy.

George J. Dance wrote:

> On 2022-12-03 2:00 p.m., jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarilly autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themeselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were bascially writing satiricle sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements incliuded in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similiar to the ones experianced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical...

> Thanks for posting that, Jordy. It's probably the best original piece
> you've posted here: on-topic, supported by argument and example, and
> reasonable in tone throughout. Since some seem to want to discuss the
> ubject further, though, let me ask you a follow-up question:

> Suppose you read a songwriter or poet describing the main character of a
> song or poem in this way: "The boy is a composite; largely based on my
> own experience, but with some details other men have told me about their
> childhoods."
> https://groups.google.com/u/0/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/JMaPb2xVZyU/m/NFVZaZzaUgoJ?hl=en

> Would you assume that that song or poem was autobiographical? Do you
> think anyone must assume that?

Again, you nailed it, Jordy and George.

On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 2:40:17 PM UTC-4, W-Dockery wrote:
> Jordy C wrote:
> > On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 9:21:22 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> Jordy C wrote:
> >> > On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 3:30:17 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> >> Jordy C wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>> It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarally autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters.... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were basically writing satirical sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements included in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similar to the ones experienced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical.
> >> >
> >> >> Again, agreed, Jordy.
> >> >
> >> >> Like I said, as Karla Rogers often reminded us:
> >> >
> >> >> "Try not to mistake the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem."
> >> >
> >> > Shalom Will
> >>
> >> Hello there my friend, hope your weekend is going well so far.
> >>
> >
>
> > Thanks, same to you
> Good afternoon, Jordy.
bonjour, Will

On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 9:40:14 AM UTC-4, W.Dockery wrote:
> George J. Dance wrote:
>
> > On 2022-12-03 2:00 p.m., jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >> It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarilly autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themeselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were bascially writing satiricle sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements incliuded in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similiar to the ones experianced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical...
>
> > Thanks for posting that, Jordy. It's probably the best original piece
> > you've posted here: on-topic, supported by argument and example, and
> > reasonable in tone throughout. Since some seem to want to discuss the
> > ubject further, though, let me ask you a follow-up question:
>
> > Suppose you read a songwriter or poet describing the main character of a
> > song or poem in this way: "The boy is a composite; largely based on my
> > own experience, but with some details other men have told me about their
> > childhoods."
> > https://groups.google.com/u/0/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/JMaPb2xVZyU/m/NFVZaZzaUgoJ?hl=en
>
> > Would you assume that that song or poem was autobiographical? Do you
> > think anyone must assume that?
> Again, you nailed it, Jordy and George.
thank you, Will

On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 11:58:44 AM UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
> On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 2:40:17 PM UTC-4, W-Dockery wrote:
> > Jordy C wrote:
> > > On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 9:21:22 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >> Jordy C wrote:
> > >> > On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 3:30:17 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >> >> Jordy C wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >>> It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarally autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters.... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were basically writing satirical sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements included in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similar to the ones experienced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical.
> > >> >
> > >> >> Again, agreed, Jordy.
> > >> >
> > >> >> Like I said, as Karla Rogers often reminded us:
> > >> >
> > >> >> "Try not to mistake the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem."
> > >> >
> > >> > Shalom Will
> > >>
> > >> Hello there my friend, hope your weekend is going well so far.
> > >>
> > >
> >
> > > Thanks, same to you
> > Good afternoon, Jordy.
> bonjour, Will

Hello again, my friend.

On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 12:52:14 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 11:58:44 AM UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
> > On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 2:40:17 PM UTC-4, W-Dockery wrote:
> > > Jordy C wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 9:21:22 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >> Jordy C wrote:
> > > >> > On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 3:30:17 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >> >> Jordy C wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >>> It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarally autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters.... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were basically writing satirical sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements included in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similar to the ones experienced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >> Again, agreed, Jordy.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >> Like I said, as Karla Rogers often reminded us:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >> "Try not to mistake the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem."
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Shalom Will
> > > >>
> > > >> Hello there my friend, hope your weekend is going well so far.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Thanks, same to you
> > > Good afternoon, Jordy.
> > bonjour, Will
> Hello again, my friend.
Shalom Will

Jordy C wrote:
> Will Dockery wrote:
>> Jordy C wrote:
>> > On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 3:30:17 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> >> Jordy C wrote:
>
>>> >>> It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarally autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters.... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were basically writing satirical sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements included in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similar to the ones experienced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical.
>
>>> >> Again, agreed, Jordy.
>
>>> >> Like I said, as Karla Rogers often reminded us:
>
>> >> "Try not to mistake the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem."
>
>> > Hello Will
>
>> Hello there my friend, hope your weekend is going well so far.
>
> Shalom Will

On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 11:59:03 AM UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 9:40:14 AM UTC-4, W.Dockery wrote:
> > George J. Dance wrote:
> >
> > > On 2022-12-03 2:00 p.m., jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > >> It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarilly autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themeselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were bascially writing satiricle sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements incliuded in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similiar to the ones experianced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical...
> >
> > > Thanks for posting that, Jordy. It's probably the best original piece
> > > you've posted here: on-topic, supported by argument and example, and
> > > reasonable in tone throughout. Since some seem to want to discuss the
> > > ubject further, though, let me ask you a follow-up question:
> >
> > > Suppose you read a songwriter or poet describing the main character of a
> > > song or poem in this way: "The boy is a composite; largely based on my
> > > own experience, but with some details other men have told me about their
> > > childhoods."
> > > https://groups.google.com/u/0/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/JMaPb2xVZyU/m/NFVZaZzaUgoJ?hl=en
> >
> > > Would you assume that that song or poem was autobiographical? Do you
> > > think anyone must assume that?
> > Again, you nailed it, Jordy and George.
> thank you, Will

Good morning, my friend.

🙂

Jordy C wrote:

> Will Dockery wrote:
>> jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Will Dockery wrote:
>> >> jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> >> >> >> > > >> It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarally autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were basically writing satirical sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements included in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similar to the ones experienced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical....
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > Good morning Jordy, again, well put.
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > hola Will, thank you
>> >> >> >> Hello there Jordy, you're welcome.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Hope you're having a great afternoon.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > thank you, same to you
>> >> >> Hello again my friend.
>> >
>> > Shalom Will
>>
>> Good morning, Jordy.
> bonjour, Will

Great to see you again this morning, my friend.

On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 2:25:09 PM UTC-5, George J. Dance wrote:
> On 2022-12-03 2:00 p.m., jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> > It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarilly autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themeselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were bascially writing satiricle sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements incliuded in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similiar to the ones experianced by the character(s) in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical...
>
> Thanks for posting that, Jordy. It's probably the best original piece
> you've posted here: on-topic, supported by argument and example, and
> reasonable in tone throughout. Since some seem to want to discuss the
> ubject further, though, let me ask you a follow-up question:
>
> Suppose you read a songwriter or poet describing the main character of a
> song or poem in this way: "The boy is a composite; largely based on my
> own experience, but with some details other men have told me about their
> childhoods."
> https://groups.google.com/u/0/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/JMaPb2xVZyU/m/NFVZaZzaUgoJ?hl=en
>
> Would you assume that that song or poem was autobiographical? Do you
> think anyone must assume that?

Again, exactly, and well put.

On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 2:53:32 PM UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
> On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 5:01:29 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 8:25:30 AM UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
> > > Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > Jordy C wrote:
>
> > > It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarally autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were basically writing satirical sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements included in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similar to the ones experienced by the character(s) > in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical...
>
>> Hello there Jordy, great to see you again this morning.
>
> Shalom Will

Good afternoon, Jordy.

:)

On Wednesday, June 14, 2023 at 5:54:13 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 2:53:32 PM UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
> > On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 5:01:29 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 8:25:30 AM UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
> > > > Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > Jordy C wrote:
> >
> > > > It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarally autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were basically writing satirical sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements included in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similar to the ones experienced by the character(s) > in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical...
> >
> >> Hello there Jordy, great to see you again this morning.
> >
> > Shalom Will
>
> Good afternoon, Jordy.
>
> :)
bonjour, Will

Jordy C wrote:

> On Wednesday, June 14, 2023 at 5:54:13 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 2:53:32 PM UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
>> > On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 5:01:29 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 8:25:30 AM UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
>> > > > Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > > Jordy C wrote:
>> >
>> > > > It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarally autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were basically writing satirical sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements included in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similar to the ones experienced by the character(s) > in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical...
>> >
>> >> Hello there Jordy, great to see you again this morning.
>
> bonjour, Will

Good afternoon, great to see you again my friend.

Jordy C wrote:

> On Wednesday, June 14, 2023 at 5:54:13 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 2:53:32 PM UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
>
>> > > > It's odd and puzzling how many people seem to think and believe that a poem or a song or a story is necessarally autobiographical! this is just NOT necessarily so! For example, the song or poem may be written from the POV of a writer's persona, or one of their many personas, or they may be written from the POV of invented characters... the members of Steely Dan, for example, have discussed how people would believe that they were writing about themselves, when they have said they were primarily writing *fiction*, they were basically writing satirical sings told from the point of view of invented characters... now, this doesn't mean that their may not be autobiographical elements included in the song or poem, their may indeed be thoughts and feeling or events included that are at least similar to the ones experienced by the character(s) > in the song or poem, but this does not necessarily mean that the poem is by any means strictly autobiographical...
>> >
>> >> Hello there Jordy, great to see you again this morning.
>> >
>> > Shalom Will
>>
>> Good afternoon, Jordy.
>>
>
> bonjour, Will

Hello there my friend.